RE: Wren fadec issues?
 

Hello,

I have resisted to post to this thread for several days, but I see that this is the neverending story, so I decided to add my grain of salt...[&o]

Like Sandor, surely I'm missing the point of these forums... or at least of this thread. :eek:

I agree if that there is a problem in certain product/configuration/use these forums could serve to help the users to be warned and to do the appropiate actions to correct/minimize the risk, but. like this thread has run, nothing good can be learned.

I have tried to learn something about the info contributed on this thread, but haven't succedeed in to get useful info. Reading this thread I understand that the issue is that a group of mates in a certain country using same radio brand, same frequency band, and same ecu had experimeted lockouts in 2 of the 3 ecus.

That from one source it seems that the first suspected ecu "put a jet in" but swapping the ecu for another type it was OK. Not sure what mean "put a jet in" but if this mean that the jet crashed I see difficult that swapping the ecu it would return to life. If the jet really crashed then blaming the ecu without any other test it seems a nonsense.

From other source it seems that same ecu was installed in another plane that suffered a lockout and crashed.

My questions are: What other equipment besides the ecu this second plane shared with first one? After the first lockout, a range test was performed? FOund anything? Have you done comparative tests to demostrate that with one ecu the plane had lockouts and with the other not in SAME setup? If yes, have you sent the ecu back to manufacturer to check?

I really wish to have more info, if there is something to correct or improve, I should know what is. From the info supplied here my conclusion is that had 2 lockouts that could be almost anything on board.

About the ecu that failed to run a Wren Supersport. Symptoms point to a incorrectly aligned transmitter. Again, I would like to have more info and see this ecu to check.

And last, the heli crash. After the crash, have you tested the ecu and the range?. Have you found that the ecu caused the problem? or simply the heli crashed and had to found something to point at and the ecu was pointed because the experience on the other plane? I have flown enough helis to suffer some lockouts, all caused by metal to metal friction from loose metal parts.

So, what's my point?. We need real FACTS. We are used to pure test in laboratory, tests in real world, and statistics. Last week I have checked them again in a RF laboratory specifically looking in the 36Mhz band. Nothing found. There are close to 1000 ecus of these out there, some 3 year old. No issues reported so far besides the "suspect" ecus in this thread. That a ecu can have a malfunction?. Yes, all the things can go wrong. That 3 ecus in same place can go wrong all together... difficult to belive. Have these ecus a issue? Not that we know. If you think that I'm wrong, please provide proof that they have a issue so that we can reproduce it and correct if necessary.

As Sandor commented, now I'm sure that when Mr.philpop crash his plane (all of us crash, it is a question of time) the ecu will be signaled as a cause without any further investigation.

Besides the "issues" on these 3 ecus, I would like to comment some other "opinions" on this thread:

1) To the 18 people that experienced issues. I would like to hear about these issues to learn about them and improve the product if possible, please email me at gaspar(at)xicoy.com to comment them, if range related please comment about the radio brand, model and frequency. JetJoe costumers burning ecus not necessary to comment.

2) To "jim3d2004". It is well known and documented that JetJoes burn ecus. Poor starter setup and shortcircuited leads caused a lots of "kills". Pointing to the ecu to burn the power stages when there is a shortcircuit in the starter or in the glow-plug is not the right thing.

3) To "GrayUK": No problems to run the servo leads along with the fadec leads or the fadec itself, at least I never succeded in to have any issue on the range. There are lots of combinations of radio gears and frequencies, could be that one in particualr give troubles, in this case I would hear about it. The carbon fiber, yes, it should be seen like metal and it reduce the range if it can shadow the aerial.

4) To "jescardin" As I commented you in a PM two weeks ago (unanswered), it seems that you have heard something somewhere, mixed and build your own version, maybe you have something personal against me. For your info, the rpm issue you comment was on the previous model of this one we are comenting here, just the one that seems to work OK here. And these RPM issues never caused a lockout, and only appeared with the engine at rest, in setups powered at 4,8V and with powerful digital servos. With the engine running it was OK. About the UAV thing that you comment, again you heard something and never understood. The UAV thing you commented happened 6 years ago, 2 years before that the ecus with the RPM "issue" where sold, and the cause of to switch to other brand was the need of more power, that at that time the supplier who offered the engines had only 120N engines available, and the costumer asked for more, plus other issues non ecu related. As I said in the PM, I invite you to contact me to clarify your informations.

5) To "Jascat100": Your ecu surely have been killed by a shortcircuit in the glow plug. You can send to us for repair/upgrade.

Gaspar

RE: Wren fadec issues?
 

Gaspar, can you give me an address to send the ECU for repair. I cannot get your website to work.
Or does anyone else have a link that works, or Gaspars address?
Thanks.

RE: Wren fadec issues?
 

Hello Jascat100,

Yes, due at change of partnership, from late last year our company have changed of name and of web site. Now the company is called Xicoy Electrónica SL.

Our current website is located at www.xicoy.com , the catalog of products at www.xicoy.com/catalog and the fadec users database at www.xicoy.com/foros

To avoid spam you can contact us trough our contact form at http://www.xicoy.com/catalog/contact_us.php or directly to sales(at)xicoy.com.

Gaspar

RE: Wren fadec issues?
 

Hi Gasper,

Would it be possible to change the circuitry or fuse the ECU to stop this in future. I realise you are optimising the ECU for size and weight but maybe protecting these circuits would be worth doing rather than risk blown a ECU from incorrect installation (If you believe this is a cause of significant failures). I know people buying ECU's to convert turbines to full autostart for example and then you are relying on the user to correctly install and wire up the ECU.

RE: Wren fadec issues?
 

I currently own 4 FADEC's and over the last 6 years or so I have used all of the variants made. I’ve lost count of how many hundreds of flights I have had with them but I do fly them every week and apart from a Digitech one not opening the fuel valve I have not had a problem in the six years, no reduced range, no flame outs down to the ECU no nothing.

However, I have seen countless problems with engines equipped with these ECU's and it's almost always down to the install/operator. Things like thermocouple leads in wrong slots or reversed, gas/fuel valves reversed or in wrong slot, people charging the ECU not the battery! incorrectly set to the TX and so on. I see people at meetings playing with the black box because the engine won't start, so their pressing the buttons like they are playing Space Invaders, then when they have actually found out the plug has gone or remembered to switch the fuel tap on the engine then spits flames out and it's all gone wrong. Unlike some other ECU's there's so many settings that are user adjustable in these and I think its true to say that some get it wrong, badly wrong and of course its the ECU that’s crap, right?

The fact is they are not as fool proof as some makes out there. Things like the RPM sensor wire and a themocouple wire of different lengths when they both go to the same place. I would like to see them come out with combined thermocouple and RPM leads that only fit in one socket and only fit one way round for instance, this would be a good start to making it fool proof.

Jason

RE: Wren fadec issues?
 

Hello,

To "kwb", it is allready done, our model 06, selling from July 2006, contained in a ALU box, is protected against shortcircuits in the starter, glow plug and valves. There are many hundreds around, and so far, none returned "fried". Only the usual "poalrity reversals" in 2 cases.

To Jason. From some years (maybe 3 o 4) the wires for the TC and the RPM sensor are of equal lenght (50cm), surely you have older ecus. About excess of parameters to play with, this depends on the ecu source, if it comes from a manufacturer engine the set of parameters that the costumer is allowed to play are very reduced, making the "tweaking" almost imposible, but for the ecus sold as "generic", yes, there are many parameters to adjust, and is easy to touch the incorrect one.

I agree with you about simplified wiring, the new ecu in what I'm working now for the Merlin 90, it have the wiring from the engine to the ecu reduced to one standard servo lead.

GAspar

RE: Wren fadec issues?
 

Gaspar. I cannot find an address on your website to send the ECU back to you for repair, or more likely purchase a new one. I emailed for the address, but as yet have no reply.
Here is a photo of the ECU after I removed it from the jet. It is a wonder it worked at all. Sorry about the photo quality.

RE: Wren fadec issues?
 

Nothing received. HAve sent you a PM.

Gaspar

RE: Wren fadec issues?
 

???? Merlin 90???

Ok, I'll bite. You wanna let us in on this new engine Gaspar? Info? Release?

Spar

RE: Wren fadec issues?
 

Can't give detailed info now on "Project 9", soon you will know the details... We refer it as "Project 9" because the number 9 is always present...Code number is "90MM90N900+900E"

Gaspar

RE: Wren fadec issues?
 

and to stay in spanish tradition:
Q:when is it done?
A: Manana:D:D

RE: Digitech issues? Now with poll
 

i had a digitech that came with my wren 54 mk3 and went haywire. at full rev's it shut my turbine off then restarted it mean fuel pump at full rev's it pumped heap of fuel then big flame out the rear resulting a burnt tail ... have switch to gasper no probs at the moment

RE: Wren fadec issues?
 

hi dave are you going the the fly-athon on the 23 sept

RE: Wren fadec issues?
 

hi dave my new ecu is a gold color in a alloy case

RE: Wren fadec issues?
 

hi sander as i said in other post my digitech was shutting my turbine down at full revs then restsrting it with the fuel pump at full revs still causing a big flame resulting in a damaged tail 3 times .. change to gasper .. did put the digitech on the computer and the red out was what i just wrote.. by the way all of my wiring set up is very neat and in it place

RE: Wren fadec issues?
 

hi gaspar as you would have read as the fault i had with my digitech ecu it was put on the computer for a read out of what it was doing the last 3 start ups .. and i don't use futaba i use a jr pcm9x series 2