Golden West Models Mig-17(PICTURES)
 

This is my new toy. Still not completely finished as far as scale detail.

RE: Golden West Models Mig-17
 

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RE: Golden West Models Mig-17
 

Very nice looking model, do they still produce kits?

thanks
Florent

RE: Golden West Models Mig-17
 

Yes, it's a kit and lots of work but you can have him build it for you.

Mike

RE: Golden West Models Mig-17
 

Looks great - well done! I always like the Mig 17, it's a "strictly business" looking airplane.

RE: Golden West Models Mig-17(PICTURES)
 

how big is it?

RE: Golden West Models Mig-17(PICTURES)
 

These are the specs from the website http://www.goldenwestmodels.net/scalejets.htm

1:7 Scale
Wingspan: 53"
Length: 63"
Height: 17"
Wing Area: 680 sq."
Weight: 14.5 Lbs.
Suitable for 12-18 Lbs. thrust engines (Bee, JDE 54)


This one with paint , a P-70, UAT full, balanced is 22 LB dry.

Mike

RE: Golden West Models Mig-17(PICTURES)
 

Looks great Mike![8D]

RE: Golden West Models Mig-17(PICTURES)
 

thanks Gregg

RE: Golden West Models Mig-17(PICTURES)
 

Very nice job!
Good luck for your maiden, please post the video!

RE: Golden West Models Mig-17(PICTURES)
 

I will, thanks

RE: Golden West Models Mig-17(PICTURES)
 

He also has a Mig 21 that looks great. I started to buy one but I couldnt find anyone that had seen one fly.

RE: Golden West Models Mig-17(PICTURES)
 

Hi Mike,

Looks great! Talk about a rare bird!

When are you brining it down to fly? Did you triple check the elevator linkages?

Regards,

RE: Golden West Models Mig-17(PICTURES)
 

Tom.

Yes he does have an awesome Mig-21. It is for a 120 size motor. I have not seen one fly but have been told it flies great. It is very scale and well built.

Matt,

I'm planning to maiden it at Rabbit dry lake. After that I'll fly it at the basin. The elevator linkage is not accessible. It is embedded inside the tail. He told me he had to pull the elevator out and redo the linkage. It appears solid now.


Mike

RE: Golden West Models Mig-17(PICTURES)
 

Wow...Hello Mike,
I naturally really like your choice of paint scheme!! It is very visible flying in every sky condition...Except into the Sun where every paint scheme turns black & completely profile. Be careful the highly swept wing can be very deceiving when in profile / into the Sun mode! That is how after six good years I crashed my MIG.

Did you find the paint scheme from pictures of the Chinese National Air Demonstration team aircraft? If so could you give me a Web link to the sight? The only source I could ever find for the Red over Sky Blue color scheme was directly from Jack Wilhite’s two seat MIG-17.

You’re going to love the MIG-17. My BVM MIG-15 was very heavy..but flew very well. Down the runway weight was 26lbs. / 21lbs empty. The wing lift / weight ratio was around 67 oz per square foot...a very heavy figure, especially when flown at higher MSL / density altitudes.

If your all up down the runway weight is say 18lbs then you'll be a fairly heavy 61 oz per square foot. If your all up with fuel weight is actually 14.5lbs your wing loading will be lighter 49 oz per square foot. At sea level my MIG flew very well. It took off in less than 400 feet and landed surprisingly slow, when the nose was held off until touch down. It took almost twice the runway length up hear at altitude especially on a hot day. Up here we really need an aspect ratio lower than 50 oz.

Good luck with your maiden flight!!
Lee H. DeMary
AMA 36099

RE: Golden West Models Mig-17(PICTURES)
 

Hi Lee,

Thanks for all the info. Very helpful. I just did a Google image search and from various sites I found the color scheme. Yes, I used the color scheme from Jack Wilhite’s two seat MIG-17 also. I don't have a specific web site to give sorry. I printed all the pictures and used those as a reference. It is not exactly the same but similar.

My Mig sounds similar in weigh to yours. I weighed yesterday on a not so precise scale and with UAT full and main tanks empty it was about 22Lb. It carries 72oz of fuel plus UAT. Thus, it may weigh about 26.5Lb wet if my calculations are correct. I have a P-70 in it and I hope this will fly it around fairly scale. Tad K. who is the designer and owner of Golden West Models flew his with an older FD motor with 9Lb of thrust. His weighed about 24-25Lb dry.

I could use some flying tips as far as what to expect on the maiden. I have never flown a sweped wing turbine powered model before. As far as landing any bad tendencies such as tip stalls? Are the air brakes and flaps effective? I was told when the air brakes are deployed at speed the MIG can turn tighter. Have you tried or noticed that?

Any help would be appreciated.


Thanks

Mike

RE: Golden West Models Mig-17(PICTURES)
 

Hi Mike,
First off your bird looks great! Looks to me like Tad really did a great job of capturing scale detail and profile of the MIG-17. That nose on view is classic… just look at the drag in full landing configuration!!

My maiden flight was done in Grand Junction, Colorado, the same day the picture of Jacks MIG-17 and my BVM MIG-15 was taken. As I recall it was spring of 2000. I didn't have the fuel system configured correctly...so the elevator was very soft..Almost couldn't hold the nose up for landing!! Good thing I was using a GA runway because I had to land at a higher speed just to keep the elevator responsive! If you don't touch down on the mains first (never touch down nose wheel first!!!) it will bounce until it breaks.

First off keep your eyes on this bird at all times. In bad light conditions the swept wing can totally deceive you that is how I eventually crashed my MIG.

As with any model there are times you must rely upon your knowledge of what angle of bank and direction your last input was. Keep the aircraft as close to you as you can, and stay away from the sun! If necessary make small aileron inputs left and right just so you keep it in correct visual / mental reference. A trick pattern guys have used for years and it can help with this bird. Burn the mid T-tail configuration into your mind that will also help. If you have the Realflight simulator configure a MIG, heavy, match your paint scheme, and fly it until you can land it short with zero bounce dragging it in! The Simulator will also allow you to burn the flight profile in your mind.

The flaps & speed doors are very effective if used properly and fully deployed on base leg too long final. The proper nose high attitude and drag will require you to add in about 1/3 power. Practice this configuration during your Maiden flight!! Practice this configuration during your Maiden flight!! Practice this configuration during your Maiden flight!! Fact is I suggest you spend most of the maiden flight flying around in a slow flight (speed doors closed the first few laps) then open the doors adding a little more power gradually working it lower and lower and then touch down. There will be plenty of time to fly this bird at full speed during later flights. The MIG is most critical during landings. Don’t slow this bird down until you’ve done it at a high safe altitude. Full speed flight with this aircraft is a dream. It has no tendency to do anything unexpected it really grooves. Takeoffs require a full power blast down the runway..Let it gain full speed, and then just ease it off in a steady climb. You might want about 10 degrees of flap for takeoffs. Ask Tad he will know!

Properly done the MIG needs all the lift & drag you can get during landing phase. Dragging the MIG in nose high over the numbers about 1/3 power until just before touchdown produces perfect landings. To do this the aircraft must be on CG at time of landing… not nose heavy because of the relatively small elevator surfaces!

Mike I do not know where your fuel tanks are located but being on CG with the MIG is very important!

Flying the BVM MIG requires fuel management / CG management at takeoff, during flight and most importantly landings. The BVM Mig-15 was originally designed to be a D/F powered aircraft. When the conversion was made for turbine power the need for more fuel required a large forward mounted fuel tank. This fact means the CG changed while fuel was being burned off!

What I did to help manage the soft elevator response during the first 4 minutes of flight, i.e. nose heavy condition; was to change the suggested fuel burn from saddle then main to main then saddle tanks! That way after about 4 minutes of flight the CG moves from nose heavy… to just right which is the secret to perfect landings with any aircraft. That change in CG increases the small elevators effectiveness.
Lee H. DeMary
AMA 36099

RE: Golden West Models Mig-17(PICTURES)
 

Hi Lee,

Thank you for taking the time and writing all that up. Very helpful and informative. Definitely usable information.

My main fuel tank is on the CG. It sits under the turbine bypass. I have a small 16oz flat tank sitting between the canopy and the turbine access hatch in front of CG. I don't know which tank empties first I've yet to test that. The UAT which should be full at all times is all the way in the nose, right above the nose gear.

What turbine did you use in yours?

Thank

Mike

RE: Golden West Models Mig-17(PICTURES)
 

Mike,
I had an early serial number P-80.. About 17lbs @ sea level..up here no more than 15lbs thrust. I actually purchased it from Tad when he & Bob were partners. The BVM MIG uses a large main tank & two saddle tanks plus the UAT. My UAT was located forward of CG about 7 inches too small and not far enough forward to be a factor. The larger main tank just rear of the nose wheel caused the CG problem so I changed the fuel flow so it emptied first. Total fuel capacity was around 110 oz.

At the St. George, UT. Rally one year I lost all air pressure while airborne. The Gear doors wouldn't even open! So I landed it gear up down the middle of the runway.. It skidded out straight down the runway doing very little damage. The center of the fuse & each wing tank showed slight skid marks. From that I learned it was better to fly the MIG with the wing tanks mounted. They make the bird slightly more visible, and add a little more drag (a good thing).

The BVM MIG has a three port fuse mounted plug-in air coupling unit, and a mating three port air connect unit on the root rib of each wing. I found the leak at one of these ports, fixed it by adjusting the depth of the wing-mounted port by adding a washer or two.

Let us know how your maiden flight comes out..Good luck!

Lee H. DeMary
AMA 36099

RE: Golden West Models Mig-17(PICTURES)
 

Mike & Others,
I posted a video of a flight of my MIG logged in 2004 at our field here in Southwest Denver on You tube. Fairly high-resolution video boy that took a while to upload! Normally, I like to do a few touch-n-goes imbedded with-in a flight. On lower Density altitude days, or at lower altitude fields the MIG likes a touch-n-go or two and so do I. Too warm on this morning for that! The elevation at Chatfield is almost 5,500 feet MSL.

Nothing special about this flight except the OAT at the time was at or near 80 degrees! That put density altitude at our field this day just short of 8000 feet MSL. As you see airspeed and climb performance is fairly scale with the P-80. The runway in use this day is situated east / west takeoff is to the east. Notice the long takeoff roll; I needed the full runway length this morning 690 feet! Not a good idea to force this aircraft into the air at these density altitudes with only 14lbs thrust at best!

You'll notice what appears to be an unstable landing approach... it was sorta, but the elevator pitch roller coaster ride was induced by me intentionally, as an aid in being sure final approach airspeed remained high enough for good elevator response near touch down...but also slow enough for the brakes to keep me on runway!

Take notice of the foothills in the background, actually the whole Rocky Mountain Front Range is on display. The near foothills are high enough that they are what you see blended with your aircraft while it’s on finial approach. The combination of the mountains and the nose on view sometimes makes feeling airspeed difficult. Of course I had the brakes pre-set about 1/2 to shorten up the roll out. Pre-setting brakes up here at altitude is normal; because touch down is not always as short as I was able to do this flight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkQWza0catI

Lee H. DeMary
AMA 36099

RE: Golden West Models Mig-17(PICTURES)
 

Wow Lee, thanks, The video is awesome. With the drop tanks at that elevation it is still very fast and stable. My drop tanks are not painted yet and all the scale antennas are not installed yet. I would like to maiden without them first to get a feel of the airplane and get used to its flight characteristics. It looks great in the air. It is also well visible with this color scheme.

Thank you again Lee, your information has been very helpful and I'll definitely keep all your suggestions in mind. I believe the elevation at the Rabbit Dry Lake here is about 3000ft (guys correct me if I'm wrong).


Mike

RE: Golden West Models Mig-17(PICTURES)
 

You gonna fly that bad boy this Sunday @ LA Jets???;)

RE: Golden West Models Mig-17(PICTURES)
 

It has not been flown yet. I was told by Jason P. that a maiden of a new bird at an AMA sanctioned even is not allowed. Also it needs some minor tuning. But the cali crew will see it soon at one of the events or a willow run.

RE: Golden West Models Mig-17(PICTURES)
 

Mike,
Sometimes doing a maiden before or after a Rally / contest can be a good thing. Generally no restrictions outside the AMA sanctioned event times...with exceptions during some larger events. If you are completely ready maidens with other expert help can make the difference.
Lee