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RE: Experimental Permit and Jets Discussion
I thought so too. So I called AMA and talked to Todd..... He said I was right.. Call AMA... 1-800-I-FLY-AMA
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RE: Experimental Permit and Jets Discussion
David,
Where I live, you must have AMA membership to fly at the field. That is Markham Park, PBRCA and the PB Bush Pilots. All 3 are on public, county run parks. Boli ORIGINAL: David Searles ORIGINAL: bevar Gerry, You are quite wrong with your post on AMA membership. You made a blanket statement...and it is incorrect. I believe if you do a little research, you will discover that AMA membership is required at most public airfields. The reason is that the park is typically government owned (county, state ETC) and most local or state governments will require AMA membership to get the insurance coverage to assist in the parks protection. Where I live, I fly at 3 public parks and all 3 require AMA membership to use the facility. I guess you field is different...but is for sure the exception instead of the norm. Beave ORIGINAL: gjhinshaw Sorry, But that is Wrong Answer... If you are at a Public Field, You DO NOT have to have AMA... This was checked out and found to be true. Where I fly is a Public Field and Some of the Pilots do Not Belong to AMA nor the Club! You can't kick them out.. Its PUBLIC.... Can't tell them to Join.... Its Public...... Can't tell them they need AMA.... Its Public..... It hurts the rest of us But Nothing we can do...... NOW, You can go to a Council Meeting an try to get it changed.... But that is another can of WORMS!!!! Gerry Hinshaw Just FYI, the AMA rules apply to AMA members regardless of where they fly. I know that a lot of people think otherwise, but the way the AMA membership, rules, insurance etc are set up, you are required to apply by the reg's even if you are flying in your own back yard. I know that sounds dumb, and I wish it were not that way - but that's how it is currently set up. Read more: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_97...#ixzz0oyYyu5C8 David S |
RE: Experimental Permit and Jets Discussion
I really Wish we Could get that here!!!!! I am ALL FOR THE AMA RULES!!! But, You know there are those few that HAVE to try an Run There Own Rules...
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RE: Experimental Permit and Jets Discussion
Gerry,
Try to fly at Markham Park without AMA membership and you will be denied entry. Try to fly anyway and the park rangers will ask you to leave. Continue to fly and you will get arrested for trespassing. You will also be escorted off the field used by the PBRCA (a public county park) if you try to fly without AMA membership by the Sheriff's Department. The Bush Pilot's field is also the same way. The county REQUIRES AMA membership to use the facility...period. What exactly did you ask the AMA? Beave ORIGINAL: gjhinshaw I thought so too. So I called AMA and talked to Todd..... He said I was right.. Call AMA... 1-800-I-FLY-AMA |
RE: Experimental Permit and Jets Discussion
Gerry,
What we usually have down here in "God's waiting room" as we call Palm Beach County are a bunch of old Farts who think that the rules only apply to the younger crowd, but not them. I also see this (Halo Factor we used to call it when I competed) with certain "elite" members who think the rules are only for regular schmoes like you and me...because they are so much better. I guess their servo's never strip, receivers never fade or lock out ETC. Anyway... Beave ORIGINAL: gjhinshaw I really Wish we Could get that here!!!!! I am ALL FOR THE AMA RULES!!! But, You know there are those few that HAVE to try an Run There Own Rules... |
RE: Experimental Permit and Jets Discussion
I think that the difference between the situation where David and Boli live are the states where the fields are. Some states (and their courts) interpret "public" as meaning that everyone has a right to use it and there can be no restrictions. Other states feel that they can include restrictions on public facilities - and do so. It does not surprise me that CA and FL handle this issue differently...
Bob |
RE: Experimental Permit and Jets Discussion
ORIGINAL: bevar Gerry, Try to fly at Markham Park without AMA membership and you will be denied entry. Try to fly anyway and the park rangers will ask you to leave. Continue to fly and you will get arrested for trespassing. You will also be escorted off the field used by the PBRCA (a public county park) if you try to fly without AMA membership by the Sheriff's Department. The Bush Pilot's field is also the same way. The county REQUIRES AMA membership to use the facility...period. What exactly did you ask the AMA? Beave ORIGINAL: gjhinshaw I thought so too. So I called AMA and talked to Todd..... He said I was right.. Call AMA... 1-800-I-FLY-AMA At the now closed Mile Square Park field in Fountain Valley, CA, less than 1/2 mile from my house, no membership of any kind was required! Hell we even used to have problems enforcing frequency control! I remember I actually gave up RC flying for a few years after getting shot down six too many times by people who would just show up, turn on that new ARF & radio they just bought at the local hobby shop and start flying! At times, the current Apollo Field, just north of LA is not much better! Both of these are/were city owned fields with no restrictions as to who can show up and fly. I guess it's just that Wild West attitude. Makes for very interesting flying at times! David S |
RE: Experimental Permit and Jets Discussion
Wild West? That's funny! Yea, for some reason over here (also called the 5th burrough of New York City) the county's (Palm Beach and Broward) are insanely protective of the parks. Heck, at one point the county banned IMAC planes from one field because they said they were too loud.
Beave ORIGINAL: David Searles ORIGINAL: bevar Gerry, Try to fly at Markham Park without AMA membership and you will be denied entry. Try to fly anyway and the park rangers will ask you to leave. Continue to fly and you will get arrested for trespassing. You will also be escorted off the field used by the PBRCA (a public county park) if you try to fly without AMA membership by the Sheriff's Department. The Bush Pilot's field is also the same way. The county REQUIRES AMA membership to use the facility...period. What exactly did you ask the AMA? Beave ORIGINAL: gjhinshaw I thought so too. So I called AMA and talked to Todd..... He said I was right.. Call AMA... 1-800-I-FLY-AMA At the now closed Mile Square Park field in Fountain Valley, CA, less than 1/2 mile from my house, no membership of any kind was required! Hell we even used to have problems enforcing frequency control! I remember I actually gave up RC flying for a few years after getting shot down six too many times by people who would just show up, turn on that new ARF & radio they just bought at the local hobby shop and start flying! At times, the current Apollo Field, just north of LA is not much better! Both of these are/were city owned fields with no restrictions as to who can show up and fly. I guess it's just that Wild West attitude. Makes for very interesting flying at times! David S |
RE: Experimental Permit and Jets Discussion
THAT IS GREAT!!! The Wild West!!!! LMAO!!! Yes, It is very laid back here!!! But, As We ALL know it only takes ONE Bad Apple!! I asked AMA if they could Enforce the Public Flying fields? He said, NO.... In Order to do something like that it is up to the City, Not AMA. I Have AMA.. 512892 I always WILL! Sometimes I don't like what they are doing, But I still Have it. We try and try to get the people to get AMA, But sometimes People are so.......... Anyway, Out here in the Wild West We Will continue to push forth.... Next Year we are getting Paved roads... That's what they say anyway...
Didn't mean to squirt on anybody to make them mad... Just wanted to let ya all know |
RE: Experimental Permit and Jets Discussion
ORIGINAL: gjhinshaw THAT IS GREAT!!! The Wild West!!!! LMAO!!! Yes, It is very laid back here!!! But, As We ALL know it only takes ONE Bad Apple!! I asked AMA if they could Enforce the Public Flying fields? He said, NO.... In Order to do something like that it is up to the City, Not AMA. I Have AMA.. 512892 I always WILL! Sometimes I don't like what they are doing, But I still Have it. We try and try to get the people to get AMA, But sometimes People are so.......... Anyway, Out here in the Wild West We Will continue to push forth.... Next Year we are getting Paved roads... That's what they say anyway... Didn't mean to squirt on anybody to make them mad... Just wanted to let ya all know |
RE: Experimental Permit and Jets Discussion
Andy,
Didn't we have this conversation a few months ago? We joked about you all hunkered down...waiving the wing of your Reaction 54 over your head...emblazoned with "Don't tread on me" from wing tip to wing tip while the rest of the Arkansas Militia and it's machine guns defended your flying site from the revenuers? That was funny! Beave [sm=bananahead.gif] ORIGINAL: AndyAndrews ORIGINAL: gjhinshaw THAT IS GREAT!!! The Wild West!!!! LMAO!!! Yes, It is very laid back here!!! But, As We ALL know it only takes ONE Bad Apple!! I asked AMA if they could Enforce the Public Flying fields? He said, NO.... In Order to do something like that it is up to the City, Not AMA. I Have AMA.. 512892 I always WILL! Sometimes I don't like what they are doing, But I still Have it. We try and try to get the people to get AMA, But sometimes People are so.......... Anyway, Out here in the Wild West We Will continue to push forth.... Next Year we are getting Paved roads... That's what they say anyway... Didn't mean to squirt on anybody to make them mad... Just wanted to let ya all know |
RE: Experimental Permit and Jets Discussion
ORIGINAL: bevar Andy, Didn't we have this conversation a few months ago? We joked about you all hunkered down...waiving the wing of your Reaction 54 over your head...emblazoned with ''Don't tread on me'' from wing tip to wing tip while the rest of the Arkansas Militia and it's machine guns defended your flying site from the revenuers? That was funny! Beave [sm=bananahead.gif] ORIGINAL: AndyAndrews ORIGINAL: gjhinshaw THAT IS GREAT!!! The Wild West!!!! LMAO!!! Yes, It is very laid back here!!! But, As We ALL know it only takes ONE Bad Apple!! I asked AMA if they could Enforce the Public Flying fields? He said, NO.... In Order to do something like that it is up to the City, Not AMA. I Have AMA.. 512892 I always WILL! Sometimes I don't like what they are doing, But I still Have it. We try and try to get the people to get AMA, But sometimes People are so.......... Anyway, Out here in the Wild West We Will continue to push forth.... Next Year we are getting Paved roads... That's what they say anyway... Didn't mean to squirt on anybody to make them mad... Just wanted to let ya all know |
RE: Experimental Permit and Jets Discussion
That's right...my bad. I think it was the FAA that was coming to get you that time. I stand corrected!
Beave :D |
RE: Experimental Permit and Jets Discussion
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ORIGINAL: George BTW, If anyone needs a plane weighed at FIF, I'll have the proper equipment. You're My Main Man, George http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/4/4_6_100.gif Mr DJ |
RE: Experimental Permit and Jets Discussion
You got me beat Mr DJ:D
BTW, I got the proper scale now![8D] |
RE: Experimental Permit and Jets Discussion
Jim,
Good info and good points! In reading these posts and dealing with things at our fields and people too, it really does come down to the club needing to be the "pro-activity" for rules understanding, enforcement and handling violations properly with their own members...and as a by-product, we ought to see it happening cleaner and better at events too. Now...how does a AMA club become more proactive in all this? Here is what we did at Georgia Model Aviators...a 285 member private club that leases it's flying site from the County in North GA. -Created a Turbine Coordinator position where all turbine operations at the field are coordinated through this person -He is a CD and Waiver holder, so he can sign off on Waivers and take folks through the Waiver process too -NO ONE can fly a turbine jet at GMA without a prior check flight with our Coordinator or designated person he assigns to do the check flight. This rule does not apply if we have an event or when invitational demo pilots come fly at one of our events. This insures the person joining the club is proficient in safety code and their ability to fly is checked...even if they have held a Waiver for 5 years...if they are new to GMA...they get a check flight and their plane is gone over with the coordinator or the assigned folks. -The Turbine Coordinator also holds a "Turbine Clinic" once or twice a year for new folks or people expressing an interest in this area of the hobby. We offer buddy box flights for anyone interested in flying a jet (wow...does this go a million miles for the "jet nay sayers" when they get behid the sticks of a Kingcat and fall in love with it!!! Last time out, we burned about 10 gallons of Kero with my Kingcat, and let about 12-15 folks that would never have the chance to own a jet...to fly that day. But for the 55 lb weight thing...we all just need to fess up that have them and get them done properly...call a spade a spade and man up...and get in compliance and practice it too. I am saying this in my area of the US...I hope Lewis Patton doesn't have to spend his whole week at Jets Over KY worrying about the weight of jets and stand next to a scale!!! Folks...that's our job BEFORE we ever head to the event!!! Rex |
RE: Experimental Permit and Jets Discussion
Rex
nice work creating a meaningful dialogue regarding our hobby but specifically within the experimental arena. The posts throughout have been informative and constructive. i assume your initial 3 points are items to get the moss off the rolling stone, so to speak. The only thing i would like to add to the discussion is a level "expectation" from our fellow jet enthusiasts. I hope we can all "expect" our peers to have the fundamental understanding of responsibility to follow AMA rules and "expect" them to educate themselves regarding the process behind the experimental regulations. the digital age and the ability to instant message with someone halfway around the world (olnico, jeremy, big john redman, bobwilcox the list can go on forever etc. etc.) makes it pretty tough for anyone to say "i didn't know" anymore. Sure, not all things are written down and might even require you to have some mentor ship or life experience to gain the knowledge (don't lick the light socket son...zap....what did i just tell you......etc.) but these days basic information can be derived from simply typing a query into your favorite search engine ( askjeeves, google,yahoo, bing etc) LOL and a reasonable answer can be attained. (if there isn't one already created) we should build a ready reference thread or document that members can list the kit airplane they built, dry / wet weight RTF, their installation configuration and the CG both manufacturer recommended and actual validated CG utilized etc. cheers buck ps, i agree i hope Lewis Patton or any other CD doesn't have to stand around and babysit anyone. Man Up!! don't ya think? ooops corrected previous typo ORIGINAL: rbxbear44 Giving it a try here with no scandals attached... Recently, we have all read about the concerns for this topic and how can effect flying jets now and in the future. Lets discuss what we can do to 1.) make sure there is an understanding of responsibility to follow the AMA rules 2.) working with the manufacturers to get involved in the ''certified airframe weights'' disclosure +/- 5% ''ish'' 3.) Open up the opportunity to educate folks on the the process to get their plane weighed and inspected. Any takers???? Rex |
RE: Experimental Permit and Jets Discussion
ORIGINAL: yeahbaby Sure, not all things are written down and might even require you to have some mentor ship or life experience to gain the knowledge (don't lick the light socket son...zap....what did i just tell you......etc.) |
RE: Experimental Permit and Jets Discussion
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Me and Blaise!!! :D He and Shannon "affectionately" refer to me as Hank Hill..... I have no idea why!!!
ORIGINAL: Gordon Mc ORIGINAL: yeahbaby Sure, not all things are written down and might even require you to have some mentor ship or life experience to gain the knowledge (don't lick the light socket son...zap....what did i just tell you......etc.) |
RE: Experimental Permit and Jets Discussion
I'll probably get flamed for this, but what if everyone was required to submit a list of their flight worthy jets to AMA along with the weight and class? If a jet isn't on the list it doesn't fly at an event. They list the names of waiver holders already. It wouldn't be that hard to list all flight worthy jets associated with those names. This is something a CD could easily check.
If anything, I just gave you guys more stuff to debate...lol. |
RE: Experimental Permit and Jets Discussion
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All: Attached is AMA document 520-C "Permit to Fly List" (As of May 7, 2010) found in the members only documents section. Note that there are a number of turbine aircraft that do have permits to fly.
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RE: Experimental Permit and Jets Discussion
ORIGINAL: Bird of Paradise All: Attached is AMA document 520-C ''Permit to Fly List'' (As of May 7, 2010) found in the members only documents section. Note that there are a number of turbine aircraft that do have permits to fly. Bob |
RE: Experimental Permit and Jets Discussion
Listing every jet is a waste of time. I'll bet my house that a Baby Boomer, my Bob Cat, any still surviving Tango ETC are under 55 pounds. Someone with a brain at either the AMA or the JPO need to compile a list of planes that could exceed 55 pounds and need to be inspected...if that's what you desire. That seems much more logical...but then again this is RCU world...so logic does not apply. :D What is needed is a list of pilots that should not be have turbine waivers...that would be wiser.
B ORIGINAL: AndyAndrews I'll probably get flamed for this, but what if everyone was required to submit a list of their flight worthy jets to AMA along with the weight and class? If a jet isn't on the list it doesn't fly at an event. They list the names of waiver holders already. It wouldn't be that hard to list all flight worthy jets associated with those names. This is something a CD could easily check. If anything, I just gave you guys more stuff to debate...lol. |
RE: Experimental Permit and Jets Discussion
Bob:
Indeed you are correct. As stated this list was valid as of May 7; however, there may well have been approved permits in the pipeline that were not reflected in the list. In any event, those pilots who have sought and obtained permits will have possession of them demonstrating that they are in compliance with the program. Mike ORIGINAL: rhklenke ORIGINAL: Bird of Paradise All: Attached is AMA document 520-C ''Permit to Fly List'' (As of May 7, 2010) found in the members only documents section. Note that there are a number of turbine aircraft that do have permits to fly. Bob |
RE: Experimental Permit and Jets Discussion
It took about 3 weeks for mine to get on there... I faxed the docs in the next day after and called to verify they received it. They told me just to take the papers with me to MS AB and show the Cd the paperwork.
Rex |
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