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who here thinks that Ae or Losi will go brushless

Old 02-04-2009, 09:23 AM
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Snaut Rocket
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Default who here thinks that Ae or Losi will go brushless

Hpi has already done it with the savage, and traxxas has done it with the revo and maxx.
I think it would be cool if Ae did or losi. I mean not a whole new truck but a converted one to the mgt or lst.
If they do i would so buy the motor mounts.
Old 02-04-2009, 10:10 AM
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Default RE: who here thinks that Ae or Losi will go brushless

Who cares??

(just kidding dude - no offense.. Just expressing my contempt for electric.. I'll start flying kites before I go electric...)
Old 02-04-2009, 11:33 AM
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Default RE: who here thinks that Ae or Losi will go brushless

LST2 Motor Mount for Brushless Conversions can be found here, http://www.tdracingrc.com/TD%20Product%20Line.htm &
Old 02-04-2009, 12:42 PM
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Default RE: who here thinks that Ae or Losi will go brushless


ORIGINAL: HerrSavage

Who cares??

(just kidding dude - no offense.. Just expressing my contempt for electric.. I'll start flying kites before I go electric...)
You wont be saying that when an electric smokes your nitro. [X(] Look at the savage Flux. There is no stock or even moded nitro MT anywhere that can touch it.
Old 02-04-2009, 01:01 PM
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benzy2
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Default RE: who here thinks that Ae or Losi will go brushless

ORIGINAL: twomanytoys


ORIGINAL: HerrSavage

Who cares??

(just kidding dude - no offense.. Just expressing my contempt for electric.. I'll start flying kites before I go electric...)
You wont be saying that when an electric smokes your nitro. [X(] Look at the savage Flux. There is no stock or even moded nitro MT anywhere that can touch it.
Thats a big claim. A lot of nitro trucks will touch it when the batteries dump or while they are charging. My biggest problem with electric isn't the performance. Its the batteries. Batteries take an hour to charge, at least 15 minutes to cool from the charge and 15 to cool from the run. That gives a pack a turn around time of an hour and a half to be running again. If you say the big lipos last 45 minutes in one of those big brushless MT you need three sets of batteries to run continuous, assuming you gear low enough to not heat the motor or esc. If you are running all the cells in one pack then you would need two chargers to charge the down batteries. If you split the cells into two packs per set (like for the e-revo) then you need 4 chargers to keep you running non stop. For me the price in batteries and chargers gets too high to spend the afternoon bashing. Yeah the power may be awesome but at $100-$150 for a good large capacity lipo and a good $100 for a decent charger you are pushing an extra $500-$1000 just to run length wise like you can with a nitro in a day. That buys a lot of nitro and a lot of work on a real nice engine. I came real darn close to buying that brushless e-revo but the fact it will kill NiMH batteries and lipo is so expensive for 1/8 monster trucks put me of from it. $650 for the truck and $1000 for the batteries. I went with $500 for the nitro version, and have that other $1150 to buy a stronger motor, a TON of nitro, and some replacement parts. Call the brushless systems a deal but until the cost to feed them comes down they are still the expensive way to get power.
Old 02-04-2009, 01:48 PM
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Default RE: who here thinks that Ae or Losi will go brushless

Even with the stupid costs of electric, the action-movie-on-mute factor is a major turn-off for me.., smoke what you will.. I'd seriously rather drive some Duratrax thing with a Force engine..
Old 02-04-2009, 03:38 PM
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Default RE: who here thinks that Ae or Losi will go brushless

Only a matter of time, really. Losi already has a brushless system of their own, Associated will probably OEM the castle system like everyone else is.
With A123 packs you can charge in 15 minutes and run without any cooling time, etc.
With LiPo you can run right after charging (many of the newer ones can charge at 2C), and they don't always require cooling time after the run either.
A good large-capacity LiPo is much less than it used to be, $25. for a 1/10th scale and roughly $50. x2 required for a 1/8th scale MT.
Old 02-04-2009, 04:17 PM
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benzy2
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Default RE: who here thinks that Ae or Losi will go brushless

Quality lipo isn't as cheap as you are stating. Where exactly are you finding $25 or $50 lipo batteries that will handle the current a 1/8 truck pulls? A123 can be charged faster Ill give you but the mass of lithium batteries today are lipo. I would like to see these lipos that can be charged at 2c. I don't know of many that handle that rate and certainly haven't seen them at any local store. It still is too new to compete price wise for the power. In the future if lipos drop to the prices NiMH is at today I could see it being an equal or better bang for your buck. Right now the technology is too expensive.
Old 02-04-2009, 09:37 PM
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Default RE: who here thinks that Ae or Losi will go brushless

Just an example, $50. for a 5000 3s LiPo (25C)
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...0mAh_3S1P_25C_

$43. for the 20C one
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...0mAh_3S1P_20C_

A123 can be reasonably affordable if you are willing to build them yourself. Single cells are available for $16.95 apiece (for a 2200mAH cell). The big problem is the awkward size, they don't really fit in the standard compartments very well.

There's no need to argue, everyone can be happy in their own right. If you don't want it, don't buy it. But don't build up your own straw man just to try to prove a point. LiPos became cheaper than equivelent NIMH packs last year. And now with both Traxxas and HPI, the rest of the manufactures could be scrambling to try to get their own 'me too' products out there.

Also for an example of charge rates up to 5C
http://www.neumotors.com/2008/Root/S...ery_Specs.html

http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...ducts_id/33002
"Unlike most other Lithium Polymer batteries, these batteries can be charged at up to 2 times the rated current, or 2C! If your charger is capable, you can charge these batteries at up 9A!"

A few other manufactuers also claim 2C charge capable batteries in their documentation.
Old 02-04-2009, 10:23 PM
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benzy2
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Default RE: who here thinks that Ae or Losi will go brushless

I have heard a bit mixed review on the zippy packs. It sounds like they quickly lose capacity over not too many cycles. And they have been fairly hard to find in stock, though they look to be back now. I almost went brushless e-revo with lipo. I really love the performance. I just couldn't find the batteries I wanted at a price I could swallow. Zippy was one i gave strong consideration to but they sound like they are cheap batteries that have a short life span. I thought shipping from hobbyking was rather expensive as well though I haven't ordered from them to make that claim. If A123 were sized to fit what we have a bit better they would be great. They have huge charge and discharge C ratings and they seem a bit safer than lipo as well. Chargers that have set points for A123 are slightly less common than just lipo settings but not much. I really like that technology. If it fit it seems like the better route. The charge rate is still something not common. The Neu batteries are still $115 for a 4100 mah 2 cell pack if you want to push to their 5C charge rate. Most brushless systems shine at 4 if not 6 cells. That still puts price for a single set of batteries at $230. Even rated at 5C charge rate I have yet to see a charger under $150 have the ability to charge a lipo above 5amps, which would come out to just a little above 1.2C on that 4100mAh pack. Look at the statement you quoted. "Unlike most other lithium polymer batteries". Even then they are $200 a pack for a 4500mAh pack. You pick one of the few cheap packs here and one of the few high charge rate packs there and put that view as how the market is. The reality is most packs that can handle a 1/8 brushless system, especially the ones you can find at a local store, are $100+ for 2 cells and charge at 1C.

I'm not trying to make this about why something else is better. I love a lot about brushless and lithium batteries. The only drawback right now is to get the setup I want it is worlds more expensive than to get a nitro setup that would make me grin just as much. If those Neu 5C charge rate batteries could be had for $43 and a 25 amp charger could be had for $75 I would be all over it. The truth is to get the batteries I wanted in the quantity I wanted I was looking at close to $500 and then I needed a charger and balancer which was another $150 easy (which only would charge lipo at 5amps) and I wasn't buying top of the line batteries or charging equipment. That was on top of the truck/brushless system cost. If I would have found a way to do it less expensively while still having quality parts I would have. I still am thinking about jumping on some of those zippy packs to see for myself if they really lose capacity or if it was just a few people with bad experiences complaining on the net while those having good experiences with them were out playing with their trucks. Please don't take this as an argument. I'm not trying to argue any point. I was just trying to explain what my research had found from a cost standpoint in powering these brushless 1/8 monster trucks.
Old 02-04-2009, 10:35 PM
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Default RE: who here thinks that Ae or Losi will go brushless

Well i been in to brushless for about a month now and all i can say is holy crap.
Nitro aint no where superior to these things.
Yes the start up price can be a little hefty but once that's down these things are awesome.
A brushless Mgt would be awesome to compete with the savage.
and a brushless lst would be awesome to compete with the revo.
Old 02-04-2009, 10:51 PM
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Default RE: who here thinks that Ae or Losi will go brushless

I was just showing the 'range', from cheapest to best. As with most things you have to pay for quality. By and large those packs are still passable though. There are some duds like their $25. hardcase car packs but most are perfectly usable for the cost-conscious.
Old 02-05-2009, 12:08 AM
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Default RE: who here thinks that Ae or Losi will go brushless

I will agree that to get a nitro setup right with brushless takes a heck of a nice power plant. I would love to see all of the manufacturers come out with big nasty brushless systems in their biggest trucks. It is the quickest way I see lithium battery prices coming down. If RC specific packs are selling in high volume it is only a matter of time before manufacturing prices drop and with such market prices drop. Those monster batteries have been in fairly limited RC ground application up until a few months ago. With multiple 1/8 monster truck brushless motor/esc combos out there and with the new trend to put them in factory trucks demand for these bigger lipos is sure to go through the roof. The performance is outstanding as everyone who runs these setups will verify. I would think in the not so distant future these high draw high voltage packs are going to be everywhere which I would assume would drop price. I have to believe that these 1/8 brushless combos will also drop in price. When the 1/10 combos hit they were easily as expensive as what the 1/8 are now. In even a year or two I wouldn't be surprised to see these 1/8 brushless kits around $150 or so and the bigger quality lipos to be around $50-$75 a piece. It is in the future and I don't think that future is very far off. Everyone who gets their feet wet love the technology so I'm sure it is only a matter of time before everyone has their brushless edition and good lipos will cost what good NiMH cost today.
Old 02-05-2009, 05:51 AM
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Default RE: who here thinks that Ae or Losi will go brushless

Zippy's are fine. The main issue is that HobbyCity have stopped stocking the big Zippy-R 25c-35c packs, leaving the H 20c-30c packs. Then again I run a slash geared 29/76 on 3s zippy H 5000mah and they run clean to the cut off, stay in balance and still put 4950mah back in the packs after running to the cut off. I'm in 30 cycles on those too.

I don't see any nitro motor hanging with a Castle Neu system on 6s. You are talking 60mph+ with torque that will flip the truck totally from a dead stop. A big block nitro screamer on a 3 spd might give you the top speed with silly gearing, but it won't give you the drivetrain crushing torque and 50+ mph wheelies. Anyone who has experienced a big brushless setup on 6s would not even talk about nitro as a performance comparison.

They are just apples and oranges.
Old 02-05-2009, 09:25 PM
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Default RE: who here thinks that Ae or Losi will go brushless

Give them time, I bet this year Losi and AE will have a production brushless out too, afterall, just to stay in line with the competition.

And as a matter of fact, since Losi and Traxxas now have 2,4GHz stock radios sets, I bet AE and HPI too will now offer 2,4gHz stock radios as well.
Old 02-06-2009, 08:51 PM
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Default RE: who here thinks that Ae or Losi will go brushless

This is an apples to oranges comparison. Each has its own advantages and disadvantages. I'm currently building my brushless MGT 8.0 as we speak. It is a BIG expense putting this together as I've spent 260 on the ESC/motor combo, 150 for a charge, 300 for a 6s 5000mah lipo, 250 on a new radio, and another 200 on misc parts. But no doubt about it there is no nitro engine that will even be close to the power the brushless puts out. Not to mention the reliability of a brushless. I've gone through 2 gallons a month with my MGT 8.0, gas guzzler. $70 a month on nitro is way more expensive than the 300 investment on the lipo. Not to mention the headache of constantly having to tune the engine and worrying about running too lean. I love my nitro, you just cant beat the sound of it. But I'd rather do away with the mess and maintenance. It's your own preference.
Old 02-07-2009, 01:21 AM
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Default RE: who here thinks that Ae or Losi will go brushless

Well, I'm not trying to compare apples to oranges, just trying to say which guys have the apples (brushless) and which ones have the oranges (2.4GHz).
HPI has apples (brushless RCs) and Losi has oranges (RCs with 2.4ghz radios). Then there is Traxxas that now has both apples AND oranges!
Old 02-07-2009, 09:43 AM
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Default RE: who here thinks that Ae or Losi will go brushless

Yeah, but it's still a crap featureless TQ radio. The guts just transmit via a different method. My point is a person is hardly likely to buy a $680 truck, spend $150 on a charger and circa $200 on lipos and not already have a digital system of their own, or get a decent one if they haven't. It's just Traxxas' insistence that everything must be RTR. To be honest I would rather the Revo be a roller with power system and servos and cheaper than the Flux. As it is the Flux is a better option for me as I would pay a cheaper price, already got the lipos and charger and would lob the radio and fit my DX3-R into it.

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