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Venom-Racing GPV-1 motorcycle

Old 11-30-2008, 01:31 AM
  #101  
Mini_Me
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Default RE: Venom-Racing GPV-1 motorcycle


ORIGINAL: Super_Dave

ORIGINAL: Mini_Me
So the spring thing is like a spring then for the steering mechanism? While that tube on the opposite side acts like a dampener tube? Can any one explain the theory behind why a bike needs a damper for the steering? Again, I'm new to this.
I haven't driven the GPV-1 yet but I can atleast tell you how steering works on a motorcycle.

Motorcycles don't work on the normal left and right steering that cars do. Bikes need to counter steer to turn meaning to make a right turn you litterally just nudge the handlebars to the LEFT. After the bike is leaned into the corner you let off any pressure from the handlebars (in this case the servo) and it maintains the lean angle that you left it at. The spring on that linkage is there so you only nudge the wheel left or right to give it a smooth gental feel. Without that spring if the front tire turns full left the bike will snap right and fall over instantly. If you think that the steering is to sensitive you can try putting softer springs on the linkage and that should make it easier to drive. If they are to soft then it probably wont turn out of a corner though.

Remember the more you turn the transmitter wheel right the more the bike is going to lean right. Once you're at the lean angle that you want you need to hold the wheel there or maybe even let off the steering a little bit depending on how the bike is set up.

Thanks for the info. Is that different for plain old bikes? I could swear I turn left when I need to go left, but then so much of that is balance. What do dampeners do for this effect as I have seen the mods with these on the 1/5th. Is that more for smoothing out road inconsistencies to keep the steering from jittering too much? (If so, hmm.. you know, a Micro-T shock just might fit for that opposite linkage.)
Old 11-30-2008, 12:40 PM
  #102  
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Default RE: Venom-Racing GPV-1 motorcycle


ORIGINAL: Mini_Me
Thanks for the info. Is that different for plain old bikes? I could swear I turn left when I need to go left, but then so much of that is balance. What do dampeners do for this effect as I have seen the mods with these on the 1/5th. Is that more for smoothing out road inconsistencies to keep the steering from jittering too much? (If so, hmm.. you know, a Micro-T shock just might fit for that opposite linkage.)
You do turn left in a left corner but you need to turn right to start the corner. Normal bicycles have the same effect but its not as noticable because they are so light and your weight shifting has a huge effect as well. Next time you ride a bike sit straight up and turn the handlebars left and see what happens. On a motorcycle (sportbike especially) its very noticable and the faster you go the harder it gets to turn the handlebars.

The damper is exactly what you just said its for. It dampens any jolts to the front tire so it doesn't upset the bike in a corner. Especially accelerating out of a corner the front end gets very light and its easier to turn the handlebars.
Old 12-01-2008, 01:39 PM
  #103  
Chris Nicastro
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Default RE: Venom-Racing GPV-1 motorcycle

All the above is true but in addition the front tire is left to find its own center and this ability is what balances the bike upright. The springs are there to influence the steering direction input all the while the front tire finds its own way in any orientation...leaned over or upright. The damper helps keep the front tire/tripple clamps from doing whats called a tank slapper. For real high speeds its better to add thick grease to the damper tube to help this effort.
When the steering springs are set up closer together they make the steering effect more direct and therefore more sensitive. You can imagine this as approaching a more one to one feel as if your on the bike so that means its more up to you to balance the bike rather than the bike doing the work naturally. Trust me its better to let the bike do the work and you just tell it were you want to go.
Counter steering is done on any conventional 2 wheeled vehicle. Its done on bicycles but in a very discrete manner and on motorcycles in various examples from dirtbikes to GP bikes. You do it you just done realize it. Technically your trying to make the bike fall over and the gyro effect of the wheels is fighting you. Your using the grip of the tire to help you trip the front end into falling over at speed and the natural gyro effect keeps things from falling over. Pretty simple but the math is rediculous!
Old 12-01-2008, 02:39 PM
  #104  
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Default RE: Venom-Racing GPV-1 motorcycle

Chris, all of the RC bikes that I've driven so far have so much trail that they try to stand up on their own without counter steering. Or do you let off all pressure from the handlebars after its leaned over like a real bike? Going around the track on my GSXR you can't have any pressure on the handlebars otherwise the front end starts pushing out and I was just hoping the GPV works the same way.
Old 12-02-2008, 05:07 AM
  #105  
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Default RE: Venom-Racing GPV-1 motorcycle

Wow, this is all good information. I might add some thick grease as you say Chris. Though I might use a paperclip heated up to add a small release valve on the tube so the grease doesn't get pushed back out the end. Thanks guys!
Old 12-02-2008, 11:45 AM
  #106  
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Default RE: Venom-Racing GPV-1 motorcycle

Right, the GPV-1 is similar. Once you have it leaned over you can be neutral or add counter steering to adjust your line and angle. On power the bike will slowly stand back up as expected. Due to the shape of the tires since they are parabolic in cross section they promote more side grip than straight standing grip. What will happen is the bike will tip in to a corner fast and you can control the lean angle very easy. Add power and counter steer and the bike will flick to the other side quickly.

Chris
Old 12-02-2008, 12:34 PM
  #107  
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Default RE: Venom-Racing GPV-1 motorcycle

Awesome! It sounds like you guys really did your homework to get them handling like the real bikes. I'm supost to be getting mine sometime this week and it will be in the parking lot running as soon as it comes in the door.
Old 12-03-2008, 05:54 PM
  #108  
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Default RE: Venom-Racing GPV-1 motorcycle


ORIGINAL: VENOMOUS

Right, the GPV-1 is similar. Once you have it leaned over you can be neutral or add counter steering to adjust your line and angle. On power the bike will slowly stand back up as expected. Due to the shape of the tires since they are parabolic in cross section they promote more side grip than straight standing grip. What will happen is the bike will tip in to a corner fast and you can control the lean angle very easy. Add power and counter steer and the bike will flick to the other side quickly.

Chris
Hmm, this may add weight to using a sensored brushless motor since the throttle control is more precise. Guess I will see how the Mamba pans out (tonight is the first night I will get to play with it on a track since its been wet outside). Are the soft tires in stock yet? I will be using it on a carpet track.
Old 12-04-2008, 02:23 AM
  #109  
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Default RE: Venom-Racing GPV-1 motorcycle

Well I had fun with it, but I definitely need to get some more practice under my belt learning how to drive one of these. That and man, do those stock tires PUSH on carpet.

I did find a problem, and I don't know if its something I did or what. I attempted to shorten the front fork to get more steering. The front fender would hit the chassis before the suspension bottomed out and if I put the lower part of the body on, it was hitting the front wheel. Am I doing something wrong? Or is this a goof in the first batch (which is OK, if its fixed with the graphite conversion)?
Old 12-04-2008, 09:00 AM
  #110  
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Default RE: Venom-Racing GPV-1 motorcycle

I'm not sure about the fender hitting the chassis but shortening the front forks is not going to get you more steering. There is basically no possible way to make a motorcycle turn sharper unless you have a lower lean angle. To have a lower lean angle you need more grip and no rails on the bike. There are some changes to the geometry that might help a little (the rake adjustment) but it probably wont be all that drastic. With a motorcycle the most important basics is to keep an even balance of traction between front and rear and get as low of a lean angle as you can without the bike sliding around.

Also shortening the front forks could have taken away steering. The more weight you have hanging off the bike toward the inside of the corner the sharper a bike will turn. Which is really the only reason why racers hang off on the real ones otherwise they could all sit straight up and it wouldn't make a difference.

Edit: As for the fender hitting the chassis. The front wheel shouldn't be moving more than just a few degrees while you're driving it anyway.
Old 12-04-2008, 11:03 AM
  #111  
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Default RE: Venom-Racing GPV-1 motorcycle

I saw these at hobby shop but the owner and employees didn't really know much yet as they hadn't sold any yet or heard any reports. I followed this thread and did more searching but haven't found the answer I really want to know. My only question now is, what the heck is the top speed of this thing stock? Just a good guess will do, like 10-15mph, more, less? Is it fast enough to be fun after learning how to drive it, or does it need a good boost right away to be interesting? Reason I ask is my bros and I are really wanting to try them but don't want to sink alot of $ into it right away to have them be fast enough for fun family racing. Although I have never driven an rc bike, I race a lot with 1/10 touring and 1/8 gtp rally so am used to driving at higher speeds and don't want something that just crawls along making me want more right away. So any good guesstimate on speed would really help us out as the rest of the bike is really well documented as to how it handles and whatnot. Thanks for any help, and thanks for the info on here so far, keep up the great work!
Old 12-04-2008, 11:37 AM
  #112  
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Default RE: Venom-Racing GPV-1 motorcycle

The GPV goes about 20mph stock out of the box. The bike can go over 40mph if set up for it. I think you and your buddies will have a blast with them and especially in a large parking lot with corner dots on the ground for a simple track, its a riot just chasing each other around. Groups of bikes are real fun for sure.

@ Mini Me,
The ESC could be in the wrong postion. Check it and realign it so the bottom edge is either parallel to the chassis edge or rotate it vertical, 90deg from where it sits now. The fender will never touch the chassis so I'm sure this is the problem your seeing.
The rake angle adjustment will change the responsiveness of the bike and make it faster or slower depending on the angle chosen, see the tunnig section in the instruction manual. With the Race Chassis you can adjust the wheelbase and this will make the bike turn a tighter circle/corner so this might be the set up your looking for.
Lowering the front end like you did is another method for changing the rake angle and it also changes the ride height. In full size bikes it also makes the bike "flick" from side to side faster. Basically if you tune this way you also need to stiffen the springs due to the lower stance the front has which will bottom out or rub the body at high corner loads. There is 4mm of tuning there to work with and thats all.
Rake without a change to wheelbase is only going to effect stability and responsiveness not how tight the bike will corner. A shorter wheelbase will draw a smaller circle, thats one way to look at it. Again look at the tuning section of the manual.
Bike tuning is an art so take your time and understand what you feel and see and make small changes.

Chris
Old 12-04-2008, 09:33 PM
  #113  
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Default RE: Venom-Racing GPV-1 motorcycle

Its not the esc causing the issue, trust me on that Im using a modified mamba (switched the cap around so it has much less of a footprint, and I directly soldered the motor to the esc. It well inside the boundries of the chassis edge... I will get some shots here. Heck, maybe attempting to put it back into the more upright position will show me whats going on. But I can say the lower body portion was dramatically hitting the front wheel, even if I pushed it back from the tire it will would only barely not touch it. I actually attempted less front rake because of the what the directions stated. I have been over the tuning tips, but they dont go into great depth with the physics behind it.

Any idea on the softer compounds? Or are they already in stock?
Old 12-04-2008, 11:42 PM
  #114  
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Default RE: Venom-Racing GPV-1 motorcycle

Well looking it over I noticed this (first picture). Musta happened during my numerous hugs with the pipes and wall. After screwing the fork back in and straightening out, when I did rebuild it with the steeper rake just now (next two pictures), I didn't encounter that issue I had before. [8D] . In my defense I was trying to change it between rounds while I should have been working on my sedan, so I wasn't paying as close attention as I should have during race night.


EDIT EDIT, Im also a noob to the terminology, so when I said shorter front, I meant I had changed the rake angle to closer to 90degrees (alah 69). Sorry for the confusion!
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Old 12-05-2008, 12:15 PM
  #115  
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Default RE: Venom-Racing GPV-1 motorcycle

Ahh ok, no worries, yes if you put the steering stem in backwards that will be a problem. Other than that looks like you got it going so just keep practicing with it.

Chris
Old 12-05-2008, 03:51 PM
  #116  
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Default RE: Venom-Racing GPV-1 motorcycle

kinda new to this rc bike stuff please help just got my gpv1 and wanted to know which brushless motor and esc is best for this bike and were i could find it online .
and if i would need to change the gearin and also were to get that
thank you
Old 12-05-2008, 05:28 PM
  #117  
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Default RE: Venom-Racing GPV-1 motorcycle


ORIGINAL: jayvr6

kinda new to this rc bike stuff please help just got my gpv1 and wanted to know which brushless motor and esc is best for this bike and were i could find it online .
and if i would need to change the gearin and also were to get that
thank you
For the BL system I would suggest the Castle Creations Mamba system for 18th scale. Its a 25A ESC. For the motor you dont want to go any hotter than 5800kv and for a novice maybe something in the 3500-4500KV is better for more control. That will be your call and the motors are not very expensive so a couple motors wont hurt.
Venom will be offering a BL system for the bike however its not released yet. Go to the Castle site and take a look. You should also consider the Castle Link so you can tune the ESC with your PC and quickly dial in what you need to get the best feel and control. Its my personal favorite and there are many other ESC's to look at but the Mamba 25 is very small and works great.
As for gearing you can keep the stock gearing if you use a lower KV motor. If you choose a 5800KV motor you should go down a tooth or two on the pinion. The optional spur gears are on their way and will be shipping shortly. These are 60T and 62T spurs and are better for BL motor applications but thats up to you to tune for your use.
The gear pitch is .5 mod and we offer a range of pinions gears on our site www.venom-group.com . There are other brands and any that work for 370 size brushed motors and 18th scale cars with .5mod pitch will work on the GPV-1. Just check the shaft size of your motor before buying any.

Have fun and take your time to learn the bike, it is very different from cars and trucks and more fun!

Chris
Old 12-05-2008, 11:14 PM
  #118  
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Default RE: Venom-Racing GPV-1 motorcycle

thanks for the help much respect
Old 12-05-2008, 11:40 PM
  #119  
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Default RE: Venom-Racing GPV-1 motorcycle

one more noob question im trying to figure it out myself but i thought i should ask even though it might be a rockie question
which one of these combos would work??? from what u wrote i think both would but i just want to make sure i am a rockie lol
thanks for your help greatlly appreciated


http://www.rcplanet.com/Sidewinder_E...csesdm2042.htm

http://www.rcplanet.com/Sidewinder_B...csesdm2054.htm
Old 12-06-2008, 12:55 AM
  #120  
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Default RE: Venom-Racing GPV-1 motorcycle

jayvr6, I'm new at these as well. But from what Chris has mentioned, I believe he would suggest the 4200 combo. I'm using a 4900 motor at this point, and its plenty fast without even changing the sprocket gear to the included 12 tooth.

Later on if you think you can handle insane speeds, there are plenty of cheap brushless motors that will work with the Mamba.
Old 12-08-2008, 12:00 PM
  #121  
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Default RE: Venom-Racing GPV-1 motorcycle

Thats right, the 4200kv system will really keep you on your toes until you get used to the power.

Chris
Old 12-09-2008, 07:33 PM
  #122  
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Default RE: Venom-Racing GPV-1 motorcycle

I just got my gpv-1 today. This bike is easier to drive than I though it was going to be. Especially the low speed handling as long as you're easy on the steering wheel its still pretty stable even at close to a walking speed. I did tightned the spring on the steering linkage and it gave me a lot more feel to get the lean angle where I want. I can't believe how tight of a turn you can get out of this bike you can deffinatly run it in some small areas if you want to as long as there is a decent amount of grip and the guide wires.

Chris do you know why the front shocks are are so stiff? In the parking lot infront of our store I think the front shocks are to stiff and the small bumps keep washing out the front end so you can't run it without the guide wires unless you're making wide turns (15ft+). The front tire might just need to be softer but I can deffinatly see the front tire bouncing around a little and our parkinglot is fairly smooth.
Old 12-10-2008, 11:49 AM
  #123  
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Default RE: Venom-Racing GPV-1 motorcycle

The front should be firm but not stiff or difficult to push down. If you take the forks off and push them in and out they should feel as smooth as any shock you have built before. If there is resistance then it could be the piston(s) tolerance is tight to the inside bore of the fork tube. You can fix this by using fine 600-1000 grit sandpaper and just sand the edge of the pistons a little at a time and check fit them back with the fork tube. The pistons are machined teflon so they can be slighty off here and there in rapid production. The goal is to get them to feel silky smooth and you should feel no resistance at all when sliding them. Another point to look at is the lower seals and bushings. Make sure the parts slide over the shaft easy and also make sure they are stacked correctly, see manual for details. The o-rings will break in over time or you can make that happen faster by cycling the forks by hand for a while to seat them faster. When you put it all together make sure not to over tighten the tripple clamps.
The parking lot could be very smooth as you say but tiny pebbles to us are huge rocks in scale to the bike. The suspension will not cope with pebbles bigger than 1/8 in diameter, thats like 1in size rocks for your real street bike and that can make you crash for real. If you can sweep the area your going to run on that would be the best thing to do.

Chris
Old 12-10-2008, 08:51 PM
  #124  
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Default RE: Venom-Racing GPV-1 motorcycle

The shocks were way to stiff for them to ever move even though they do move smoothly when you squeeze them. This 1lbs bike deffinatly can't have enough force to compress the front suspension under driving conditions. I tried changing out the shock oil with 20wt but it still felt the same so I tried to find out why they felt so stiff. The biggest issue was deffinatly the o-rings being tight but they haven't had really any time to break in yet (10 battery packs ran through it). Temporarily taking one of the o-ring spacers out of the shocks really helped free up the movement so the o-rings were just to tight. Still with the smoother suspension the rear compresses a whole lot easier than the front. I do think the springs are to stiff but I'll try to find some softer springs of the same size and see if that makes the handling better or worse. I know on my real bike if the rear compresses in a corner it increases the rake on the bike and it starts pushing the front end through the corner. Its probably nowhere near as drastic on this little thing but I'd like to see how it handles if the suspension compresses evenly. Soon we should be racing on some smooth and very grippy concrete anyway.

Still I have absolutly no complaints about the bike I'm just trying to play with some details to make it work the way I want . I did already set the rake to 69 degrees and moved the steering linkage to the inside hole on the tripple tree. Its very touchy on the steering wheel but once you set in some exp in the radio it makes it easier to get the lean angle that you want without it falling onto the guide wires like it did with the softer setup. I also went to a 10t pinion gear on the motor which made it much more fun exiting the corners! It deffinatly hurt the top speed but it is A LOT more fun to turn and accelerate than to just drive in a straight line. It is much more stable on the brakes than the kyosho HOR that I've driven and it slows down pretty quick with just the rear brake even though the rear end starts to move around a bit sometimes. Having the front brakes would deffinatly be a nice advantage to make it more stable under braking and slow down faster especially if you're running brushless with high speeds.

I haven't driven many rc bikes but I'm very satisfied with this thing. It turns much sharper than I though it would after you get used to driving it at low speeds. As a bonus the pearl white on this GPV-1 is a perfect match to the pearl white on my GSX-R .
Old 12-10-2008, 10:14 PM
  #125  
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Default RE: Venom-Racing GPV-1 motorcycle

Well I just found the gpv-1 thread on rcgroups and you said setting the rear shock softer makes it feel like you have more grip on the front end. I guess it really depends on which point you are in the corner and how much throttle you are using. With the full size bike when you're maintaining the apex of a long corner with just a littttttle bit of throttle if the rear end starts to sag more than the front it feels like the front tire just starts falling out from under the bike untill you pick up the throttle for the exit and basically steer it with the rear tire. I guess with RC you're never in a corner for that long though and I'm sure the tire compounds between front and rear are drastically different between rc and full size. I have a lot to learn about the rc bike setups but I have the suspension moving pretty evenly now so I'm anxious to try it tomorrow.

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