My New Futaba 18 MZ
12-23-2011, 10:30 PM
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RE: My New Futaba 18 MZ
ORIGINAL: Gulliver
Futaba must have separate engineering/software/marketing teams for each product that are forbidden to talk to each other - and tech writers from Mars.
And their, apparenly atrophied, management must still be in place.
Futaba must have separate engineering/software/marketing teams for each product that are forbidden to talk to each other - and tech writers from Mars.
And their, apparenly atrophied, management must still be in place.
And they are not atrophied - they are waiting for the stars to be right!
12-24-2011, 05:24 AM
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RE: My New Futaba 18 MZ
ORIGINAL: aussiesteve
Yep - just had an impulse buy on the way home today. Below is the official handover ceremony.
One of the first here to get to hold one
a LOT of features and a LOT faster to do stuff than the 14MZ. I still have a lot to learn on it though
Yep - just had an impulse buy on the way home today. Below is the official handover ceremony.
One of the first here to get to hold one
a LOT of features and a LOT faster to do stuff than the 14MZ. I still have a lot to learn on it though
12-24-2011, 05:28 AM
#28
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RE: My New Futaba 18 MZ
ORIGINAL: aussiesteve
The 14MZ is a nice radio but it always feels a little strange in my hands (I had JR for years before I bought the 14MZ and they are a different feel).
The real benefits to me on the 18 over the 14 are:
Much faster to boot up (after the first boot up of the day)
A MUCH longer lasting battery - I ran mine last night for over 2 hours, (about 1 of which was setting up a plane just to get my head around the menus) and it only had lost about 15% of its charge in that time.
The programing response time is very fast and the menus are a little easier to understand for dummies like me.
It contains a built in programmer for the S-Bus servos etc
It can have a keyboard, screen and mouse plugged directly into it.
No need to find a dark shady spot to be able to read the screen.
It has a much nicer feel in my hand (could be psycological too)
but more importantly to me - it has telemetry. Coming very soon are some sensors that include temps, altitude, GPS, RPM, voltages and a few others. That information can be shown on the screen in real time (which is pretty useless really as watching the screen instead of th eplane will usually end in tears) but it can also be recorded during the flight (along with stick movements!!). Now I will know EXACTLY where I crashed, why I crashed, and how I crashed - add an on board camera and I will be able to even SEE all that.
Come to think of it - that might not be such a good thing - now I will have to blame something new for my crashes.
The 14MZ is a nice radio but it always feels a little strange in my hands (I had JR for years before I bought the 14MZ and they are a different feel).
The real benefits to me on the 18 over the 14 are:
Much faster to boot up (after the first boot up of the day)
A MUCH longer lasting battery - I ran mine last night for over 2 hours, (about 1 of which was setting up a plane just to get my head around the menus) and it only had lost about 15% of its charge in that time.
The programing response time is very fast and the menus are a little easier to understand for dummies like me.
It contains a built in programmer for the S-Bus servos etc
It can have a keyboard, screen and mouse plugged directly into it.
No need to find a dark shady spot to be able to read the screen.
It has a much nicer feel in my hand (could be psycological too)
but more importantly to me - it has telemetry. Coming very soon are some sensors that include temps, altitude, GPS, RPM, voltages and a few others. That information can be shown on the screen in real time (which is pretty useless really as watching the screen instead of th eplane will usually end in tears) but it can also be recorded during the flight (along with stick movements!!). Now I will know EXACTLY where I crashed, why I crashed, and how I crashed - add an on board camera and I will be able to even SEE all that.
Come to think of it - that might not be such a good thing - now I will have to blame something new for my crashes.
12-24-2011, 06:28 AM
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RE: My New Futaba 18 MZ
ORIGINAL: pattratt
cmoulder
The ''Sun light'' readable screen and much longer battery life are two very big issues with me. The telemetry for me is a saftey issue as it will audio alarm if there is a problem in reception and on board battery issue or heat issue. If your setup requires four servos in the tail you can set it up with a single cable from the receiver instead of four heavey servo extension leads. The list goes on and on. I am sure there are functions that I don't even know about!
Dick
cmoulder
The ''Sun light'' readable screen and much longer battery life are two very big issues with me. The telemetry for me is a saftey issue as it will audio alarm if there is a problem in reception and on board battery issue or heat issue. If your setup requires four servos in the tail you can set it up with a single cable from the receiver instead of four heavey servo extension leads. The list goes on and on. I am sure there are functions that I don't even know about!
Dick
You can make your own multi servo cables also by using a couple of 14 AWG wires (for power and ground) and 2, 3 or 4 22 AWG signal wires branching into separate connectors with common power and ground. Something to do on those cold winter days when you feel like soldering together a puzzle.
12-24-2011, 05:40 PM
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RE: My New Futaba 18 MZ
ORIGINAL: pattratt
If your setup requires four servos in the tail you can set it up with a single cable from the receiver instead of four heavey servo extension leads.
If your setup requires four servos in the tail you can set it up with a single cable from the receiver instead of four heavey servo extension leads.
I don't think s-buss should be allowed in "overweight" models but that's just my paranoid opinion...
01-07-2012, 08:44 AM
#33
RE: My New Futaba 18 MZ
Even though some people think the Futaba will have problems selling this radio......
Mine just shipped, I think is the second batch, and the stock status changed from mid Dec to early Jan, on the first batch, and early Jan to early Feb on the same day on the second! that is a lot of back orders....
Hopefully it will be a great radio, as the manual does not shows that much besides S.Bus, dual Rx, and telemetry (I already forgot lot of what I read), so far it has the same 8 conditions and the snap roll function is still bad, so I will program it in conditions, but have to play with it yet next week.
Mine just shipped, I think is the second batch, and the stock status changed from mid Dec to early Jan, on the first batch, and early Jan to early Feb on the same day on the second! that is a lot of back orders....
Hopefully it will be a great radio, as the manual does not shows that much besides S.Bus, dual Rx, and telemetry (I already forgot lot of what I read), so far it has the same 8 conditions and the snap roll function is still bad, so I will program it in conditions, but have to play with it yet next week.
01-07-2012, 11:18 AM
#35
RE: My New Futaba 18 MZ
ORIGINAL: bjr_93tz
While this might sound like a great feature, I'm sorry but I'd much rather the redundancy of 4 heavy leads to 4 servos than a single fatigued wire or dodgey connector costing me control over the WHOLE back end of my plane.
I don't think s-buss should be allowed in ''overweight'' models but that's just my paranoid opinion...
ORIGINAL: pattratt
If your setup requires four servos in the tail you can set it up with a single cable from the receiver instead of four heavey servo extension leads.
If your setup requires four servos in the tail you can set it up with a single cable from the receiver instead of four heavey servo extension leads.
I don't think s-buss should be allowed in ''overweight'' models but that's just my paranoid opinion...
The sodering has to be solid though.
01-07-2012, 11:56 AM
#36
RE: My New Futaba 18 MZ
Hi Woodi,
It does have a switch and a safety switch, and I learned to the snap rolls with no switches, but using the stick as switches and logic on the Flight Conditions, where in JR the three axis are set in any combination to activate the snap roll, and that is done in the four different directions in totally separate screens, Futaba is behind on that, don't get me wrong, I switched from my JR12X to the Futaba 12Z because I was waiting for the 18MZ, and love every bit of Futaba, but the snap roll, that is why is rarely used by the top pilots.
The 12X has 5 Flight modes, but the snap roll is a flight mode itself, so it actually becomes 7 flight modes on the 12X, and I am using 7 flight modes already in my Futaba set up. I think the snap roll in Futaba has been ignored for a while.
Regards
Alejandro P.
It does have a switch and a safety switch, and I learned to the snap rolls with no switches, but using the stick as switches and logic on the Flight Conditions, where in JR the three axis are set in any combination to activate the snap roll, and that is done in the four different directions in totally separate screens, Futaba is behind on that, don't get me wrong, I switched from my JR12X to the Futaba 12Z because I was waiting for the 18MZ, and love every bit of Futaba, but the snap roll, that is why is rarely used by the top pilots.
The 12X has 5 Flight modes, but the snap roll is a flight mode itself, so it actually becomes 7 flight modes on the 12X, and I am using 7 flight modes already in my Futaba set up. I think the snap roll in Futaba has been ignored for a while.
Regards
Alejandro P.
01-08-2012, 03:25 PM
#38
RE: My New Futaba 18 MZ
Underdw,
Maybe you got me wrong, you are 100% correct on the snap, is not the use of a snap sw, is the snap as a condition, activated by the sticks working as switches to set the snap rates as the four snaps are usually different, is just that JR lets you do that, get off the elev to say one and still be at the snap rates, because you can set the three axis independently, when in Futaba you can only set two axis, ie, ail, elev or ail rud.
That does not makes me want to go back to JR, I am flying with no problems on the snap, it is just that I wonder why is a powerful radio like this still have the old snap function...
Regards
Alejandro P.
Maybe you got me wrong, you are 100% correct on the snap, is not the use of a snap sw, is the snap as a condition, activated by the sticks working as switches to set the snap rates as the four snaps are usually different, is just that JR lets you do that, get off the elev to say one and still be at the snap rates, because you can set the three axis independently, when in Futaba you can only set two axis, ie, ail, elev or ail rud.
That does not makes me want to go back to JR, I am flying with no problems on the snap, it is just that I wonder why is a powerful radio like this still have the old snap function...
Regards
Alejandro P.
01-11-2012, 12:15 AM
#40
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RE: My New Futaba 18 MZ
Hi.
Mine due in a weeks time. Did it come with a transmitter case? Also any idea on the cost for the telemetery sensors?
Regards
Burt
Mine due in a weeks time. Did it come with a transmitter case? Also any idea on the cost for the telemetery sensors?
Regards
Burt
01-11-2012, 12:45 PM
#42
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RE: My New Futaba 18 MZ
ORIGINAL: flyf3a
Hi.
Mine due in a weeks time. Did it come with a transmitter case? Also any idea on the cost for the telemetery sensors?
Regards
Burt
Hi.
Mine due in a weeks time. Did it come with a transmitter case? Also any idea on the cost for the telemetery sensors?
Regards
Burt
Telemetry sensors.
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...SM&C=MKL&V=FUT
Using the R7008SB you get RX pack and motor pack voltages WITHOUT using additional sensors.
Yes, it comes with a case
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgzvA...eature=related
01-11-2012, 02:01 PM
#43
RE: My New Futaba 18 MZ
ORIGINAL: apereira
Hi Woodi,
It does have a switch and a safety switch, and I learned to the snap rolls with no switches, but using the stick as switches and logic on the Flight Conditions, where in JR the three axis are set in any combination to activate the snap roll, and that is done in the four different directions in totally separate screens, Futaba is behind on that, don't get me wrong, I switched from my JR12X to the Futaba 12Z because I was waiting for the 18MZ, and love every bit of Futaba, but the snap roll, that is why is rarely used by the top pilots.
The 12X has 5 Flight modes, but the snap roll is a flight mode itself, so it actually becomes 7 flight modes on the 12X, and I am using 7 flight modes already in my Futaba set up. I think the snap roll in Futaba has been ignored for a while.
Regards
Alejandro P.
Hi Woodi,
It does have a switch and a safety switch, and I learned to the snap rolls with no switches, but using the stick as switches and logic on the Flight Conditions, where in JR the three axis are set in any combination to activate the snap roll, and that is done in the four different directions in totally separate screens, Futaba is behind on that, don't get me wrong, I switched from my JR12X to the Futaba 12Z because I was waiting for the 18MZ, and love every bit of Futaba, but the snap roll, that is why is rarely used by the top pilots.
The 12X has 5 Flight modes, but the snap roll is a flight mode itself, so it actually becomes 7 flight modes on the 12X, and I am using 7 flight modes already in my Futaba set up. I think the snap roll in Futaba has been ignored for a while.
Regards
Alejandro P.
Jim O
01-12-2012, 07:37 AM
#44
RE: My New Futaba 18 MZ
Jim,
The three axis can be set on any radio for travel, what Futaba can not do is set the three axis as switches to enter the snap roll mode or condition, only two can be set, so either elev ail, or ail rud, but not the three of them, so there is not much flexibility as with JR where as long as the three axis are input, it will not get out of snap mode, on Futaba if I release the Rud or the elev it will.
Of course it always depend on the snap roll, some do need that some do not. My point is, I thought Futaba will improve the function but it remains the same.....
I wish we will see a radio one day where we can create/customize our own functions.
Regards
Alejandro P.
The three axis can be set on any radio for travel, what Futaba can not do is set the three axis as switches to enter the snap roll mode or condition, only two can be set, so either elev ail, or ail rud, but not the three of them, so there is not much flexibility as with JR where as long as the three axis are input, it will not get out of snap mode, on Futaba if I release the Rud or the elev it will.
Of course it always depend on the snap roll, some do need that some do not. My point is, I thought Futaba will improve the function but it remains the same.....
I wish we will see a radio one day where we can create/customize our own functions.
Regards
Alejandro P.
01-12-2012, 10:36 AM
#45
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RE: My New Futaba 18 MZ
Alejandro,
I'm not sure how you set up your JR. As I understand it, you are saying that as long as EL-AIL-RUD sticks are not released, then you are switched to the snap condition. The Futaba only allows 2 logic inputs but will still release if you center either of them when you use an "AND" function in the logic statement.
I think what you are trying to do is partially release one of the controls and find yourself reverting to your "normal" condition. Perhaps if you use the hysteresis function on your stick inputs, you can overcome this problem. Try setting the "on" point at 90% stick and the release at 20% stick. Then you should be able to partially release any of the stick inputs. If you are only releasing elevator then you should use aileron and rudder as the two inputs and the problem will go away.
John
I'm not sure how you set up your JR. As I understand it, you are saying that as long as EL-AIL-RUD sticks are not released, then you are switched to the snap condition. The Futaba only allows 2 logic inputs but will still release if you center either of them when you use an "AND" function in the logic statement.
I think what you are trying to do is partially release one of the controls and find yourself reverting to your "normal" condition. Perhaps if you use the hysteresis function on your stick inputs, you can overcome this problem. Try setting the "on" point at 90% stick and the release at 20% stick. Then you should be able to partially release any of the stick inputs. If you are only releasing elevator then you should use aileron and rudder as the two inputs and the problem will go away.
John
01-12-2012, 01:59 PM
#46
RE: My New Futaba 18 MZ
ORIGINAL: apereira
Jim,
The three axis can be set on any radio for travel, what Futaba can not do is set the three axis as switches to enter the snap roll mode or condition, only two can be set, so either elev ail, or ail rud, but not the three of them, so there is not much flexibility as with JR where as long as the three axis are input, it will not get out of snap mode, on Futaba if I release the Rud or the elev it will.
Of course it always depend on the snap roll, some do need that some do not. My point is, I thought Futaba will improve the function but it remains the same.....
I wish we will see a radio one day where we can create/customize our own functions.
Regards
Alejandro P.
Jim,
The three axis can be set on any radio for travel, what Futaba can not do is set the three axis as switches to enter the snap roll mode or condition, only two can be set, so either elev ail, or ail rud, but not the three of them, so there is not much flexibility as with JR where as long as the three axis are input, it will not get out of snap mode, on Futaba if I release the Rud or the elev it will.
Of course it always depend on the snap roll, some do need that some do not. My point is, I thought Futaba will improve the function but it remains the same.....
I wish we will see a radio one day where we can create/customize our own functions.
Regards
Alejandro P.
Jim O
01-12-2012, 02:28 PM
#47
RE: My New Futaba 18 MZ
Jim,
What you describe is exactly what I have set up, that's the way I have it. What I mean is JR gives you three logic switches, and Futaba gives you two logic switches, directions don't count as a sw as it is the same sw (sticks). So in JR you need elev,ail and rudd input at the same time(and) to get snap roll condition, and in Futaba only two (logic).
John,
Is that what Hysteresis does? what an ass am I, that is exactly what I need, I'll try it tomorrow on the radio. Futaba's manual sucks, but JR does too. I can't understand how is it that such expensive radios have so bad manuals(incomplete and confusing some times), one thing is for sure the transition form JR12X to Futaba has been hard programming wise, learning how to "think" Futaba is not easy.
Regards
Alejandro P.
What you describe is exactly what I have set up, that's the way I have it. What I mean is JR gives you three logic switches, and Futaba gives you two logic switches, directions don't count as a sw as it is the same sw (sticks). So in JR you need elev,ail and rudd input at the same time(and) to get snap roll condition, and in Futaba only two (logic).
John,
Is that what Hysteresis does? what an ass am I, that is exactly what I need, I'll try it tomorrow on the radio. Futaba's manual sucks, but JR does too. I can't understand how is it that such expensive radios have so bad manuals(incomplete and confusing some times), one thing is for sure the transition form JR12X to Futaba has been hard programming wise, learning how to "think" Futaba is not easy.
Regards
Alejandro P.
01-12-2012, 03:10 PM
#48
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RE: My New Futaba 18 MZ
The Hysterysis in the setting of the stick switch on/off points allows you to set the "on" point different to the "off" point. For a simple one stick switch scenario, you might need 90% of stick movement away from neutral to turn the condition on, but have to bring the stick back to within 5% of neutral for the condition to turn off. This effectively locks the condition "on" until the stick is re-centred. Used in conjunction with logic, this would keep the AND logic condition true until either stick was re-centred.
I've experienced weird servo movement when using delays between the conditions and have avoided them ever since. I had one plane that If I set a long delay between conditions the servo's would twitch to another spot then to where they're supposed to be for the new condition, then twitch to the correct spot. I was expecting to get a smooth transition.
I can't speak for the 18MZ but I'm certain the logic for the 14MZ was expanded a while back to allow the use of more than two inputs for logic.
The only problem I have with using stick switches for snaprolling is that my "normal" condition elevator rates aren't enough to give the break our judges are looking for, and it's not until I get the rest of the sticks boxed that I get the proper Snap condition rates. Good thing I only have one snap to worry about
I look forward to getting my 18MZ in about 5-6 years time [&o]
I've experienced weird servo movement when using delays between the conditions and have avoided them ever since. I had one plane that If I set a long delay between conditions the servo's would twitch to another spot then to where they're supposed to be for the new condition, then twitch to the correct spot. I was expecting to get a smooth transition.
I can't speak for the 18MZ but I'm certain the logic for the 14MZ was expanded a while back to allow the use of more than two inputs for logic.
The only problem I have with using stick switches for snaprolling is that my "normal" condition elevator rates aren't enough to give the break our judges are looking for, and it's not until I get the rest of the sticks boxed that I get the proper Snap condition rates. Good thing I only have one snap to worry about
I look forward to getting my 18MZ in about 5-6 years time [&o]
01-12-2012, 03:15 PM
#49
RE: My New Futaba 18 MZ
Exactly one of the things I say, that is why I use a condition for the snap, so when the sticks hit the established position it goes to snap throws set in the AFR within the condition.
Regards
Alejandro P.
Regards
Alejandro P.
01-12-2012, 03:56 PM
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RE: My New Futaba 18 MZ
bjr_93tz
You could dual rate the elevator based on elevator stick position being at the end point in normal mode. That would give you the extra kick you need for the break. When you bring in the rudder and aileron the elevator would switch over to the snap condition gain. Of course this wouldn't work if you ever use full elevator stick during other maneuvers besides the spin, which I assume is already a different condition.
Alejandro,
The only way to beat the manual problem is the way you did. Post the question here. Fortunately, it always seems like someone(s) has been there before you. It can save a lot of time and headscratching.
John
You could dual rate the elevator based on elevator stick position being at the end point in normal mode. That would give you the extra kick you need for the break. When you bring in the rudder and aileron the elevator would switch over to the snap condition gain. Of course this wouldn't work if you ever use full elevator stick during other maneuvers besides the spin, which I assume is already a different condition.
Alejandro,
The only way to beat the manual problem is the way you did. Post the question here. Fortunately, it always seems like someone(s) has been there before you. It can save a lot of time and headscratching.
John