bjr_93tz

What would ever make you think that you know who and what I have or haven't seen in F3A?

Judging by who's liking who in the posts, it looks like there's a little mutual admiration society thing going on.....

chuck4816s

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see the below quote, this is your statement I was referring to. I don’t know who you are or who you have seen fly, what all I can do is make comments based on what you put on here and make assumptions based on that. Sorry if I offended you in any way. I am not a fan of instituting gyros in any form of competition! The premise of precision aerobatics is to demonstrate absolute control of the airborne model in all conditions.

“Oddly enough I think gyro's/flight stabilisation isn't a bad idea for F3A's future. An F3A ship should be the best flying plane at the flying field and look rock solid under all conditions.”

chuck4816s

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It's all good! We all are entitled to our own specific opinions, it's what separates us from the animals! LOL My personal opinion is that Gyros have zero business in a competition environment that is supposed to push the skills of the pilot.

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

I agree. Just look at the current F3C helicopter schedules to get an idea of what would happen to F3A if electronic stabilization were allowed. Like helicopters, our sequences would drastically change as well.

bjr_93tz

This is my opinion on what pattern should look like. At one point in time it was consistent with what others thought.
It's not the F3A/F3P hybrid of today.

FBW

A lot more exciting to watch than the things we fly today........Maybe its the sound and smoke.
I think we should introduce sound and smoke to the electrics or fly more IC engines........

chuck4816s

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We do occasionally see smoke with electrics! lol

chuck4816s

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Pattern does need to keep progressing in order to create interest drawing new members in as well as retaining our current base of people. We need to be mindful of what changes are made and how the cost of our sport will be impacted.

BarracudaHockey

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Let's keep it polite, debate is awesome, let's cut out the other stuff though, thanks

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

Keep in mind that as the sequences/maneuvers change, so do the airplane designs. If you don’t like the current designs/flying style it could be brought up to the FAI sequence committee.

big_G

Let's hear from current Sportsman and new Intermediate pilots only:...What do you think the biggest hinderance to attracting new pilots is?

jester_s1

I've been flying SPA for the past few years and have just taken a passing interest in F3A and IMAC. For me, it's the size and cost of the planes. I'm not up for dropping $3-4k on a competitive airframe. I could transport one in my truck, but a lot of guys have to invest in trailers. So that's something else to store and another cost to pay out. I'm sure another factor is the time involved, both practicing and traveling to contests. The latter isn't something people can do much about, but the former is.

big_G

If you have a 35-40cc IMAC plane, then you have an ideal plane for AMA Sportsman! You can pick up a gently used 2 meter plane ready to fly for about $1,500.

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

Jester’s perspective here is exactly what we need to eliminate to grow pattern. I know that he already has a nice classic pattern airplane that he could easily fly and be competitive with in IMAC basic and AMA pattern sportsman. Flying both events for a year with that airplane would teach him a lot about his next investment and he would have a great time to boot. The hurtle here is convincing guys that they most likely already have capable equipment and to just come out and join the fun.

PS, the D8 sportsman season champion last year was flying a FMS foam airplane all year. A $250 airplane.

jester_s1

I have always assumed that even in the lower levels the equipment race would be on. It's good to know that cheaper planes can be competitive.
I think pattern would see some better participation if cheaper, smaller planes were mandated in the lower classes. I love to see the master class maneuvers being flown with state of the art planes by those amazing pilots and wouldn't want to mess with that. It's the high end and should continue to be. But if a $500 balsa or even foam plane could max out the equipment regulations for the lower 2 classes, that would open it up. Sportsman might even become the most popular class for that reason, which then would motivate people to move up into advanced just to have a smaller field. But with the same planes flying there as the top, the glass ceiling gets broken for more people to learn the maneuvers and move up.

speedracerntrixie

My Feedback: (29)

In the lower classes the top of the line equipment could actually be a disadvantage. A beginner running one of the fancy new bipes with a contra unless he has help is going to be flying an airplane that is not quite setup to its fullest potential. Then the nervousness of someone flying an expensive airplane in competition for the first time. For your first year IMO keeping it simple is the way to go. In Sportsman class the airplane is a small percentage of the equation. Being able to fly at the same box depth, hold your lines and center your elements is what gets you the win. Many sport airplanes are fully capable of doing just that.

The best way to get your opinions on increasing participation known is to reach out to the NSRCA. Let them know what keeps you from flying pattern.

barnowljenx

Jester1's comment is one that I have heard a few times in the UK. I try and explain that there is a lot that can be achieved with relatively low cost models that are well trimmed and that the pilot has spent a good deal of time practicing under the guidance of an experienced pattern pilot. If is vital to practice the right thing with a correctly set up aircraft. I can remember being well beater by a guy flying a 50 size aircraft while I struggled with my Vanquish 2 m. I read his point about being competitive and my immediate reaction is that the pilot is the single most powerful part of the word competitive. The other thing about competition is that you learn so much by going to just 1 competition that no amount of practicing will ever teach you.

The other time and money saver is to buy second hand pattern ships from someone who knows how to fly well. That saves a lot of money and at least you get a well sorted aircraft to set you off on the right track. If you want to splash out on the latest and greatest equipment and then start flying in competition you are in for a nasty shock when guys with lower spec stuff beat you. Sure, one of today's designs makes rolling axially a great deal easier but you still need to know how to move the sticks otherwise it will still look like an ugly roll - at least to those who know what a roll should look like.

wattsup

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barnowljenx, I could not agree with you more. Kindly refer back to my response #44 above. Regards.

barnowljenx

Hi Whatsup - just flagging up the thinking from the side of the pond! Good that we think the same way.

apereira

While I do understand the neverending story of F3A being expensive, weight, etc, etc, etc.....................

No one mentions the fact the patterns do discourage a lot of people? that people have to fly only two patterns for two years? Letīs face it, just a handful fly unknowns, and young people
today simply preffer the simultaions given by video games or any other thing that is easier to do.

F3A pilots fly because of love to it, we love to fly and see others fly, also I got hooked just by the look of the aircrafts in the 90īs, if the airplanes are ugly noone will want to fly it unless
it serves a purpose, in my opinion most people complain and blame cost, when the problem is lack of interest, not money alone.

barnowljenx

Well, apereira's comment above left me feeling most inadequate. I've only ever managed to fly one schedule over 2 years as I find it hard enough, firstly, to remember the manoeuvres (without a caller) and, secondly, to remember all the visual cues, timing, wind correction, geometry and so on. In answer to a fellow clubmate as to whether I didn't find it boring flying the same thing over and over again, my answer was "well, for me, it's never the same every time!". Even at the end of the 2 year period, I find that I am still learning how to improve with the current schedule. So, I take my hat off to all those who find flying just 2 schedules for 2 years as a put off from staying in F3A.

IMHO those who don't continue with pattern flying are usually not prepared to put in the effort required to raise their standard of flying and get fed up when someone else, whom they think they should beat, beats their score.

Beauty is certainly in the eye of the beholder as regards the way today's aircraft look compared with any other time period. What is undoubtedly true is that today's airframes are designed to meet the requirements imposed by schedules. All competitions involving machines that are required to compete on performance against a set of rules end up looking very similar. When you throw in the laws of physics then this is increasingly so. What I do find when I let non pattern pilots fly my competition model is their discovery that the aircraft is really easy to fly, is not twitchy and makes their aerobatics look good (to them). What many are not prepared to do is to go away and work at improving their own flying, trim their aircraft properly and have a plan before they get airborne as they just want to "fly for fun".

In my experience, it requires a lot of encouragement and hand holding to get pilots to accept that they are not as good as they think they are and have a desire to get better with someone on hand to help them to do so. There are a lot of misconceptions about the "elite" and "competitive" world they perceive as being pattern competition. After attending just one event many find that their views are unfounded and then some suddenly realise what darn good fun it all really is! The bug bites and away they go. Others, choose not to and that's OK. Each to their own.

big_G

Nailed it. They go to a contest with a few (if any) practice flights. Then they are discouraged if they don't come home with a trophy. They then go on to tell their friends Pattern is too expensive, too much travel..bla bla bla. This hobby does take a bit of dedication to yield the expected results.

bjr_93tz

There's also a whole back catalogue of schedules for people to try out, practice and have fun with, and they should be encouraged to do so.

papaone

Hello

Results received
Claude

serious power

Thanks Claude,
The last 5 (yes-no) questions are completly irrelevant as there is absolutly nothing the CIAM can do about these issues - it's none of their business really.
From the rest only 2 chahges can arrise ; 1. remove the weight limit 2, no very tall manoeuvres in future F3A schedules. A bit pointless really.
There were some 'loaded' questions anyway eg 70V - why not 50V or something, Ban Contras ???*** !!
A focus on renewables might be more apt at this stage in our destruction of the environment