widebody 60 pics and info wanted
08-20-2004, 05:55 PM
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widebody 60 pics and info wanted
Id like to see pictures of widebody 60s and as much info as possible about them, Im planning on getting one and would like to hear the pros and cons etc. thanks
08-20-2004, 07:07 PM
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RE: widebody 60 pics and info wanted
Sorry I don't have any detail pics, mine had an unfortunate accident with a high tension power line.
Don't ask.
Anyway, this is probably the sweetest flying 60-90 sized pattern plane out there, anywhere. It flies almost identically to my larger 2 meter planes, until the wind blows. Then it's lack of size shows.
Ok pros and cons.
Construction: The quality of this thing is outstanding. The wings and tail surfaces come presheeted. Mine were very true and very light. Excellent quality. The fiberglass cowl and pants were also very nice. But the cowl fits too tight, and you have to cut it pretty bad to get it to fit corretly. The canopy was nice, and it was protected by a thin layer of bonded film. Unfortunately, I left mine in the car in MARCH, and it melted. I have no idea if it was a delayed reaction to the paint, or the heat, or a combination of the two. But it melted like it had been on fire or something. Turned to drippy, hard goo. Oh well.
The wood is laser cut, but don't rely on the tight fit of teh parts to ensure a straight fuse: it won't be. Mark center lines and jig it. Otherwise you'll be sorry. (Unless of course you get the ARF version, then you get what you get).
I hated having to sheet the turtle deck, it's very difficult to make that very sharp bend in the rear without cracking the wood. I used a crapload of tape and weights. It cracked of course, but it bonded and sanded out.
The gear is junk. Replace it with a C/F gear.
This plane builds tail heavy, but flies ok tail heavy. I had mine balanced at 37% of the root chord measured at the fuse, and it flew fine. No issues to speak of. But be aware, this engine was designed for a heavy 4 stroke.
Speaking of power, I had an OS .91FX with a Perry pump in mine. I tried a number of different props, but I always found it a bit lacking in extended verticals. I replaced a lot of wood and built it as light as I could, but it still came out a shade under 8 lbs. That's not too bad, but it needed more punch over the top. I'm thinking Saito 120 in my next one. If you like YS, a 110 would be a great match for this plane.
I'm not sure if you intend to fly pattern, 3d or both, but if you mainly intend to fly pattern, move the root cut line for the ailerons outboard about 3-4". They are simply huge and will make it a little squirrely around center if you use them standard. If you normally don't fly 2 meter planes, you probably wouldn't notice though. The elevator and rudder are fine. I did however extend my rudder about 1", making the total length 70" using a 2 3/4" tru turn. Not a small plane.
I used an MK bellcrank for the elevator, but pull pull would be fine if properly rigged. I don't know which way I'll go next time, I'll probably do the MK again.
The other PITA is the slot for the horizontal stab. it's guess work, so take your time. Lots of sanding, and check your incidence, even if you get an ARF.
Flying: Well what can I say? Power aside, it will do everything, and I do mean everything. There MAY be some FAI level stuff it doesn't like, but snaps, spins, point rolls, all very true. Very little if any mixing to the rudder. I had none, never felt it necessary. It rolls cleanly, I had no differential...and that's better than my 2 meter, it has about 4%.
3D...I couldn't really tell you, as that's not my thing. Ok I hovered it a little, but as I said I found the power somewhat lacking with the OS 91 2 stroke. I'd DEFINITELY go with more engine, although a lot of people will say it's fine. Just not for me it wasn't.
Overall: probably the best value out there for $189 delivered, bar none. I am getting another one soon to play with over the winter. You won't regret it, just take the time to be SURE it's aligned properly.
-Mike
Don't ask.
Anyway, this is probably the sweetest flying 60-90 sized pattern plane out there, anywhere. It flies almost identically to my larger 2 meter planes, until the wind blows. Then it's lack of size shows.
Ok pros and cons.
Construction: The quality of this thing is outstanding. The wings and tail surfaces come presheeted. Mine were very true and very light. Excellent quality. The fiberglass cowl and pants were also very nice. But the cowl fits too tight, and you have to cut it pretty bad to get it to fit corretly. The canopy was nice, and it was protected by a thin layer of bonded film. Unfortunately, I left mine in the car in MARCH, and it melted. I have no idea if it was a delayed reaction to the paint, or the heat, or a combination of the two. But it melted like it had been on fire or something. Turned to drippy, hard goo. Oh well.
The wood is laser cut, but don't rely on the tight fit of teh parts to ensure a straight fuse: it won't be. Mark center lines and jig it. Otherwise you'll be sorry. (Unless of course you get the ARF version, then you get what you get).
I hated having to sheet the turtle deck, it's very difficult to make that very sharp bend in the rear without cracking the wood. I used a crapload of tape and weights. It cracked of course, but it bonded and sanded out.
The gear is junk. Replace it with a C/F gear.
This plane builds tail heavy, but flies ok tail heavy. I had mine balanced at 37% of the root chord measured at the fuse, and it flew fine. No issues to speak of. But be aware, this engine was designed for a heavy 4 stroke.
Speaking of power, I had an OS .91FX with a Perry pump in mine. I tried a number of different props, but I always found it a bit lacking in extended verticals. I replaced a lot of wood and built it as light as I could, but it still came out a shade under 8 lbs. That's not too bad, but it needed more punch over the top. I'm thinking Saito 120 in my next one. If you like YS, a 110 would be a great match for this plane.
I'm not sure if you intend to fly pattern, 3d or both, but if you mainly intend to fly pattern, move the root cut line for the ailerons outboard about 3-4". They are simply huge and will make it a little squirrely around center if you use them standard. If you normally don't fly 2 meter planes, you probably wouldn't notice though. The elevator and rudder are fine. I did however extend my rudder about 1", making the total length 70" using a 2 3/4" tru turn. Not a small plane.
I used an MK bellcrank for the elevator, but pull pull would be fine if properly rigged. I don't know which way I'll go next time, I'll probably do the MK again.
The other PITA is the slot for the horizontal stab. it's guess work, so take your time. Lots of sanding, and check your incidence, even if you get an ARF.
Flying: Well what can I say? Power aside, it will do everything, and I do mean everything. There MAY be some FAI level stuff it doesn't like, but snaps, spins, point rolls, all very true. Very little if any mixing to the rudder. I had none, never felt it necessary. It rolls cleanly, I had no differential...and that's better than my 2 meter, it has about 4%.
3D...I couldn't really tell you, as that's not my thing. Ok I hovered it a little, but as I said I found the power somewhat lacking with the OS 91 2 stroke. I'd DEFINITELY go with more engine, although a lot of people will say it's fine. Just not for me it wasn't.
Overall: probably the best value out there for $189 delivered, bar none. I am getting another one soon to play with over the winter. You won't regret it, just take the time to be SURE it's aligned properly.
-Mike
08-20-2004, 07:30 PM
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RE: widebody 60 pics and info wanted
I thought the turtle deck was presheeted? I want to use the new webra 91 aero with a perry pump but I dont have much info about anybody using the webra on any airplane, I have always had excellant results with webra engines but dont know anything about the 91, I really dont care for the 4 strokes that much, also is the stab slot precut in the kit version?
08-20-2004, 07:40 PM
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RE: widebody 60 pics and info wanted
Nope you have to sheet the turtle deck. I have no idea why they didn't sheet it too. Probably cuz they know it'd crack 
It's a pain, but if you wet it and tape/weight it properly, it'll be fine. It's just the very back end that's really tight where it cracks, the front is no problem. If it's pressed tightly, it will sand out and hold the form.
yes the stab slots are cut....sort of. They are there, but are WAY undersized. So you have to sand to fit. Expect to spend an entire evening doing this to get it right. Spend the extra time to align this plane, it's worth it.
I HATE 4 strokes myself, but in the 100-120 range, there just isn't much out there. The Webra MIGHT be ok if you build it very light and use the right prop. You never did say what you intended to do with it? If low level pattern, then it should be just fine. If high level pattern or serious 3D, then you'd really need to keep it light. Mine came out a shade under 8 lbs, and I replaced some sheeting on the fuse and did some other lightening things. Wood varies in density though, and some have done the same thing as I did and gotten a 7 lb airplane. In that case, the Webra would be perfect for just about anything.
So the answer is: it's probably borderline, and you'd have to use a little momentum in long verticals. it will hover ok, but will take a good bit of throttle to pull out, so don't get into TOO much trouble before bailing.
-Mike
It's a pain, but if you wet it and tape/weight it properly, it'll be fine. It's just the very back end that's really tight where it cracks, the front is no problem. If it's pressed tightly, it will sand out and hold the form. yes the stab slots are cut....sort of. They are there, but are WAY undersized. So you have to sand to fit. Expect to spend an entire evening doing this to get it right. Spend the extra time to align this plane, it's worth it.
I HATE 4 strokes myself, but in the 100-120 range, there just isn't much out there. The Webra MIGHT be ok if you build it very light and use the right prop. You never did say what you intended to do with it? If low level pattern, then it should be just fine. If high level pattern or serious 3D, then you'd really need to keep it light. Mine came out a shade under 8 lbs, and I replaced some sheeting on the fuse and did some other lightening things. Wood varies in density though, and some have done the same thing as I did and gotten a 7 lb airplane. In that case, the Webra would be perfect for just about anything.
So the answer is: it's probably borderline, and you'd have to use a little momentum in long verticals. it will hover ok, but will take a good bit of throttle to pull out, so don't get into TOO much trouble before bailing.
-Mike
08-20-2004, 09:06 PM
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RE: widebody 60 pics and info wanted
Im trying to get back with pattern flying, Im way behind and since the 150mph bombs are not the thing anymore I thought I would try to get somthing 90 sized of the fat and ugly trend before trying anything larger. I thank you for your info, there is nobody down here in Statesboro, Ga that cares for pattern except me, all that anybody does is take off and hover,{and people think pattern is boring to watch HA HA} anyhow if you dont mind, let me in on some info regarding whos flying around Ga, Thanks
08-20-2004, 09:27 PM
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RE: widebody 60 pics and info wanted
If you are going to fly pattern, then the .90 should be fine. I fly mine with the OS .90 and stock muffler, and it will do up through advanced sequences just fine. You will not have unlimited vertical, but it is not lacking for power. I was practicing the advanced pattern yesterday with it, and it does it all just fine. MHester's building notes are right on. Mine came out at 7 1/2 lbs.
08-20-2004, 10:12 PM
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RE: widebody 60 pics and info wanted
Ahh pattern in Ga. That I can handle [8D]
Welp, first things first: Pattern is infectious. It isn't for everybody, it's for that 1% crowd that want to be the best they can be, and get the most out of what they do. We're inventors, we push the envelope, and constantly seek visible improvement in both flying skill and equipment. We are sometimes seen as elitists, and in a way we are...but hopefully not in a bad way. We simply want more than the average sport flyer. The problem is exposure, we get none. Ask a pilot 20 years ago what pattern was, he would go into detail. Ask now, most people don't even know what it is. I blame that squarely on the AMA and magazines in general, but that's another topic.
The way to get people flying in your area is to fly pattern in your area. They will come to you in time. When I first started flying at GMA, a predominantly sport and 3D field, nobody flew pattern. Within a year, there were 8 of us. When a few of us stopped the rest stopped. 4 months ago when I joined my present field, nobody at all flew pattern. I started, at first they were put off. Then an old friend, Cameron Smith joined me, and now we have people coming out of the woodworks setting up for pattern and asking endless questions. When they do, be very informative and friendly, and sell it. Then you have the start of a group, and you are not alone. Even flying with one other will help you tremendously.
In Ga, there aren't too many that actually compete. I do, Cameron Smith does, Bryan Kennedy does, his friend Eric just started. We are about it in metro Atlanta that compete. Then there's Jim Ivey over in Mableton, and Emory Shroeter (I spelled that wrong, and he posts here....eek!) in Griffin, and one of his friends just started. Then there's John Norris who USED to fly pattern, but just got busy, I hope he comes back. And of course, Frank Chick, who is as much fun to watch as anybody out there. These are the ones I know about, and we only have one contest here, in June at Andersonville. I know I have omitted some by accident, but it's late. The bottom line is, just start flying pattern, and go COMPETE!!!!! If you do, others will follow you and you will have a group right where you are, I garauntee it. The longer I stay at one place, the more people fly pattern. It does spread, but it takes time, as only a certain kind of person is cut out for pattern competition. And if you ain't competing, you're just sport flying with a little purpose
you have to compete to get the full effect, I can't stress that one enough.
Even though Statesboro is a drive, I'll be glad to come down and help you out and get you headed toward the trophies.
Yep if you're flying sportsman, the 90 2 stroke is plenty, just carry some speed in the 2 loops. If you want to jump off in intermediate, you'll have to work on that half square half roll and the outside loop to get them clean. if you fly advanced....well, you need more power. The square with half rolls alone will tear you up.
Oh, and do you really think this is "fat and ugly"? (The PLANE, not me) Don't worry, I loved the Tipos and Curares until these...then they sorta grew on me. Now I love the way they look!
-Mike
Welp, first things first: Pattern is infectious. It isn't for everybody, it's for that 1% crowd that want to be the best they can be, and get the most out of what they do. We're inventors, we push the envelope, and constantly seek visible improvement in both flying skill and equipment. We are sometimes seen as elitists, and in a way we are...but hopefully not in a bad way. We simply want more than the average sport flyer. The problem is exposure, we get none. Ask a pilot 20 years ago what pattern was, he would go into detail. Ask now, most people don't even know what it is. I blame that squarely on the AMA and magazines in general, but that's another topic.
The way to get people flying in your area is to fly pattern in your area. They will come to you in time. When I first started flying at GMA, a predominantly sport and 3D field, nobody flew pattern. Within a year, there were 8 of us. When a few of us stopped the rest stopped. 4 months ago when I joined my present field, nobody at all flew pattern. I started, at first they were put off. Then an old friend, Cameron Smith joined me, and now we have people coming out of the woodworks setting up for pattern and asking endless questions. When they do, be very informative and friendly, and sell it. Then you have the start of a group, and you are not alone. Even flying with one other will help you tremendously.
In Ga, there aren't too many that actually compete. I do, Cameron Smith does, Bryan Kennedy does, his friend Eric just started. We are about it in metro Atlanta that compete. Then there's Jim Ivey over in Mableton, and Emory Shroeter (I spelled that wrong, and he posts here....eek!) in Griffin, and one of his friends just started. Then there's John Norris who USED to fly pattern, but just got busy, I hope he comes back. And of course, Frank Chick, who is as much fun to watch as anybody out there. These are the ones I know about, and we only have one contest here, in June at Andersonville. I know I have omitted some by accident, but it's late. The bottom line is, just start flying pattern, and go COMPETE!!!!! If you do, others will follow you and you will have a group right where you are, I garauntee it. The longer I stay at one place, the more people fly pattern. It does spread, but it takes time, as only a certain kind of person is cut out for pattern competition. And if you ain't competing, you're just sport flying with a little purpose
you have to compete to get the full effect, I can't stress that one enough.Even though Statesboro is a drive, I'll be glad to come down and help you out and get you headed toward the trophies.
Yep if you're flying sportsman, the 90 2 stroke is plenty, just carry some speed in the 2 loops. If you want to jump off in intermediate, you'll have to work on that half square half roll and the outside loop to get them clean. if you fly advanced....well, you need more power. The square with half rolls alone will tear you up.
Oh, and do you really think this is "fat and ugly"? (The PLANE, not me
) Don't worry, I loved the Tipos and Curares until these...then they sorta grew on me. Now I love the way they look!-Mike
08-20-2004, 10:29 PM
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RE: widebody 60 pics and info wanted
Very nice! I should not have said fat and ugly but I do miss the {lean and clean} I would very much enjoy having someone help me with flying pattern and maybe I can get a few more around here into pattern, I would like to get at least one person to pratice and compete with. thanks
08-20-2004, 10:49 PM
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RE: widebody 60 pics and info wanted
Yup, Mike is right on the money with everything he said about the Widebody. Builds easy except sheeting the $#)%(*% turtle deck - mine cracked, too - surprise, surprise. I'm putting an OS .91FX in mine, much lighter than the 4-strokes. I've flown another club member's Widebody powered with a Saito 100 (convinced me I needed one). Vertical was OK, a bit of a challenge to fly through some of the verticals in the FAI sequences, but everything else was great. Snaps are a pleasure - stops on a dime!!
I've been thinking of building a 2 meter version (after I knock out a couple of Tempests!!).
Happy Flying,
Will B.
I've been thinking of building a 2 meter version (after I knock out a couple of Tempests!!).
Happy Flying,
Will B.
08-20-2004, 11:06 PM
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RE: widebody 60 pics and info wanted
You are right- pattern is infectious. My Widebody 40 arrived on Monday and I've only looked over the parts. A guy on RCU put a .72 four stroke in his and said he has unlimited vertical. I'm shopping around for one now. I'm new to 4 strokes. I thought I would not like a new .56 that I'm flying right now, but I do like the vertical pull and good acceleration on a light sport plane that I just finished. This plane probably weighs about the same as the WB40, so I believe a bigger 4 stroke would haul it around.
Is that the inboard aileron suggestion in the photo of the WB60? I'm thinking that the WB40 may be more roll sensitive than the WB60 due to being lighter and a shorter wing span.
You're somewhat near me. Griffin isn't that far away. The Andersonville meet must be Mac Hodges. Missed it in June. I grew up in the Atlanta area but have been away for about 30 years now. We have a small club, and one member took 3rd place at Nationals years ago, and another friend competed for Nationals many years ago. He was my instructor. He may buy the WB60 after I gave him the link to the videos on the CA Models website. I plan to keep after him until he is back to flying pattern again with me. Like you said- competing makes you better.
Is that the inboard aileron suggestion in the photo of the WB60? I'm thinking that the WB40 may be more roll sensitive than the WB60 due to being lighter and a shorter wing span.
You're somewhat near me. Griffin isn't that far away. The Andersonville meet must be Mac Hodges. Missed it in June. I grew up in the Atlanta area but have been away for about 30 years now. We have a small club, and one member took 3rd place at Nationals years ago, and another friend competed for Nationals many years ago. He was my instructor. He may buy the WB60 after I gave him the link to the videos on the CA Models website. I plan to keep after him until he is back to flying pattern again with me. Like you said- competing makes you better.
08-21-2004, 07:57 AM
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RE: widebody 60 pics and info wanted
I've got my WB60 to the almost ready to cover stage. So far it has been a real pleasure to build. The instructions are marginal, but if you take your time it's not too bad. If you go the the CA model site and look at the online instruction, you can click on each thumbnail picture and get a larger, more readable version. Some of them actually have little notes or dimensions on them that can't be seen in the printed version. I saved all the large versions of the pictures to my hard drive and referred to them as I built.
The turtle deck sheeting was a PITA, but mine did not crack and came out pretty good. The stab slot on mine was about 3/4" to short chordwise and I had to do alot of cutting to get it through the fuse. I center hinged the elevators to make the pull-pull easier to setup and I setup up the rudder pull-pull to come out above the H. stab instead of underneath.
I molded a fiberglass copy of the canopy inside the original plastic one. Seems lighter than the original and I was gonna make it opaque anyway.
I'm putting the tank back close to the CG over the wing.
I'm planning on using a YS91FZ and if it comes out at 7-1/2 pounds, I will be ecstatic.
Richard
The turtle deck sheeting was a PITA, but mine did not crack and came out pretty good. The stab slot on mine was about 3/4" to short chordwise and I had to do alot of cutting to get it through the fuse. I center hinged the elevators to make the pull-pull easier to setup and I setup up the rudder pull-pull to come out above the H. stab instead of underneath.
I molded a fiberglass copy of the canopy inside the original plastic one. Seems lighter than the original and I was gonna make it opaque anyway.
I'm putting the tank back close to the CG over the wing.
I'm planning on using a YS91FZ and if it comes out at 7-1/2 pounds, I will be ecstatic.
Richard
08-21-2004, 05:43 PM
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RE: widebody 60 pics and info wanted
Mine is built like a tank with a YS 110 and fr 8411's as I had them hanging around (?) and its coming out at 7.7 pounds.
08-21-2004, 10:10 PM
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RE: widebody 60 pics and info wanted
The club president's first language is Spanish and I'm taking a copy of the English instruction manual with the Spanish text from the website for him to begin translating tomorrow. I spoke to CA Models and they welcomed a better translation. If there is enough interest, I'll email the translation out when it is finished. I'll send a copy to CA Models as I promised them. I may convert metric to standard measurements too, if all of this doesn't take too long.
08-23-2004, 11:04 PM
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RE: widebody 60 pics and info wanted
Hello Sviking,Iknow you dont like 4s engine. Mine is power by YS91 with apc15/6 ,6.75lbs.With power to spare. Set up mainly for 3d. All hinge line moved fwd.Very nice kit and easy to build.And fly fantastic. Later
Later
10-12-2004, 09:30 PM
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RE: widebody 60 pics and info wanted
My widebody is 1/3 done and it is a fine quality kit with outstanding Laser work and deisgn. The control systems are in the fus and I am ready to get into high gear on it. I used the CF control system on the ele and pull-pull on the rudder with servos placed as CA suggested. It will have an OS .91 FX.
10-13-2004, 08:33 AM
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RE: widebody 60 pics and info wanted
My Widebody came out at 7lbs-2oz. Here are some details:
Airframe - built stock from kit materials.
Canopy - Molded fiberglass (I used the clear one as a mold).
Servos - Futaba 9202's in the stock locations.
Linkages - "SpiderWire" pull-pull on Rudder and elevators. Rudder cables exit through the turtledeck above the stab. Aileron linkages are CF rods w/titantium ends.
Landing gear - Stock gear with aluminum axles. 3" lite wheels. No wheel pants.
Engine - YS110 on Hyde Mount. Supplied by Tettra 14oz. tank mounted on the CG just in front of the servo tray.
I really built it to fly pattern with, but it does beautiful high-alpha low speed knife edge passes. The plane is a real powerhouse with the light airframe weight and powerful motor. It's a real rocket with an APC 15x10 on 20/20 fuel, but it also flies extremly well at low speeds.
Airframe - built stock from kit materials.
Canopy - Molded fiberglass (I used the clear one as a mold).
Servos - Futaba 9202's in the stock locations.
Linkages - "SpiderWire" pull-pull on Rudder and elevators. Rudder cables exit through the turtledeck above the stab. Aileron linkages are CF rods w/titantium ends.
Landing gear - Stock gear with aluminum axles. 3" lite wheels. No wheel pants.
Engine - YS110 on Hyde Mount. Supplied by Tettra 14oz. tank mounted on the CG just in front of the servo tray.
I really built it to fly pattern with, but it does beautiful high-alpha low speed knife edge passes. The plane is a real powerhouse with the light airframe weight and powerful motor. It's a real rocket with an APC 15x10 on 20/20 fuel, but it also flies extremly well at low speeds.
10-13-2004, 07:43 PM
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RE: widebody 60 pics and info wanted
Super Viking, Planes Plus has good deal on the Widebody ARCs. I'm picking mine up this week. I had a Widebody till the wing folded on me, it flew so good I have to get another.
10-14-2004, 08:29 PM
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RE: widebody 60 pics and info wanted
FOLDING WINGS????
That was OK in my navy days but it is not what we are looking for now. Any suggestions on the wing, I am reasy to put the wing together and would welcome any thoughts you might have on preventing the untimely death of the plane. Did you use epoxy? what did you use to glass the joint??
That was OK in my navy days but it is not what we are looking for now. Any suggestions on the wing, I am reasy to put the wing together and would welcome any thoughts you might have on preventing the untimely death of the plane. Did you use epoxy? what did you use to glass the joint??
10-15-2004, 03:45 PM
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RE: widebody 60 pics and info wanted
Black B12 call Planes Plus, www.planesplus.com , they are have a great close out sale on WB 60 ARCs.
Panther45, I glassed the wing with 30 min Epoxy. On this next plane I plan on adding a Carbon fiber rod to act as a spar.
Panther45, I glassed the wing with 30 min Epoxy. On this next plane I plan on adding a Carbon fiber rod to act as a spar.