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2stroke for pattern plane

Old 01-08-2005, 05:09 AM
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FlyRCU
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Default 2stroke for pattern plane

Hey everyone,

I;ve gotten my 2 meter pattern plane which wegihs in at about 10.1lbs and am considering 2 stroke otpions.

The 4 engines are:

Mintor 170, OS 160 FX, OS 160 FX-FI and the OS 140 RX.

In power, thrust terms, which is the best engine and pipe/header and prop size combination for my mentioned above pattern plane?

Thanks I await your replies.

dave
Old 01-08-2005, 07:25 AM
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Bob Pastorello
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Default RE: 2stroke for pattern plane

Based on the engines you listed, and my experience with some of them....
#1 - Off the Shelf stuff - OS 1.40RX - currently motor mounts, headers, parts, easy to get, and will turn a good prop on any pattern design. Reliable, trouble-free operation, low nitro.
#2 - My personal favorite - OS 1.60FX - need custom header, and either pump or header tank system. Reliable, trouble-free, low nitro and HUGE POWER.

Don't even bother on the other two.
Old 01-09-2005, 03:28 PM
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eoinjoc
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Default RE: 2stroke for pattern plane

OS 140 is a v. good engine, I also have a Webra 145 (blackhead) which is much more fuel efficient. Pipe length is critical on both engines. Both run well on Coolpower 15% nitro.

Personally I prefer the Webra turning an APC 15x13 3-blade prop.
Eoin
Old 01-09-2005, 03:59 PM
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Jeff-RCU
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Default RE: 2stroke for pattern plane

I have two OS1.40's and fly them with bolly mufflers (not tuned pipes) takes some of the set up skill out of the equation.
Old 01-09-2005, 08:13 PM
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UNLDAVE
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Default RE: 2stroke for pattern plane

Hi All,

After purchasing a Mintor 1.70 and holding it in my hand, I would have to call it the DA150 of pattern engines...This thing is beautiful!!!


Dave
Old 01-09-2005, 08:28 PM
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Default RE: 2stroke for pattern plane

Dave

I have been flying the OS 140RX with the OS header and the ES carbon pipe ESD2C140M8, I also have the Mintor twin plug head (23) purple. This has been a great combination. I run Cool power Pro-Pattern 20% and 25%.
Currently flying a Focus II with a 17x10N APC prop. Very nice power, vertical performance.

Hope this helps

Bryan
AMA 1744
NSRCA 1744
NSRCA District 3 AVP
Old 01-09-2005, 09:09 PM
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MHester
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Default RE: 2stroke for pattern plane

I'll ditto what Bryan said, only I'm running straight cool power 15% and a bolly 17.5x12, and have vertical to burn. I really like the Hatori/ES setup, it may be pricey, but it works so well and it's so light. The short of it is it's bullet proof and solves a lot of problems. It's one of the few things I won't skimp on, along with PBG tubes and Hyde mounts. All the rest is fair game to me. Even the prop. I switch between that and an APC 16x13 for heavy wind.

But Bryan's and mine work very well, for a few years now with no significant problems.

Oh, and mine doesn't have a Team Kennedy sticker on it yet hehe.

-Mike
Old 01-11-2005, 11:55 AM
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MTK
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Default RE: 2stroke for pattern plane

Indeed it is pretty to look at. After fiddling with mine for two months, wasting much of those two months, I gave up on it. Now it makes a beautiful paper weight. When it ran, the power was outstanding.

Back to the webra 145 and haven't looked back; less power but far greater reliability. 20-19 Cool Power blend, hatori pipe, 17x13 standard apc, and a vertical up snap that's effortless

MattK
Old 01-11-2005, 12:05 PM
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ONYX140
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Default RE: 2stroke for pattern plane

O.S. 160FX
HATORI SIDE TO REAR MANIFOLD
HATORI MUFFLER PIPE (not tuned pipe! ive 4got the number)
PRESSURED TANK WITH KLINE REGULATOR
FINE TAPER NEEDLE VALVE SCREW

PERFECT COMBINATION

BUT THIS YEAR ITS GONNA BE UP AGAINST THE YS 160!!!! CANT WAIT
Old 01-11-2005, 12:07 PM
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rodney tanner
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Default RE: 2stroke for pattern plane

Matt,
I saw your comments on the M170 in the K-Factor a while back. Was that one of the early versions? If I remember right it would´nt hold the top end setting.
Old 01-13-2005, 10:41 AM
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MTK
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Default RE: 2stroke for pattern plane

It wasn't just thetop end Rodney, it was everything else in between also. It was just too unreliable. Found out that it didn't have any head shims which would have helped settle it down some. The brass metering barrel in the carb had to be replaced and the piston/liner was supposed to be replaced but I never did replace it. It ate Type F plugs about every 6 or 7 runs. I believe I could have tinkered and gotten it tamed, but I chose to fly instead.

MattK

ORIGINAL: rodney tanner

Matt,
I saw your comments on the M170 in the K-Factor a while back. Was that one of the early versions? If I remember right it would´nt hold the top end setting.
Old 01-13-2005, 11:41 AM
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rodney tanner
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Default RE: 2stroke for pattern plane

Thanks Matt:
I have an OS 160FX and a rebuilt 140RX as backups, just in case :-) As for the Webra 145, I could never get mine to stop spewing fuel out of the carb and after 3 months of leaking unreliable pumps and a lot of frustration I went back to a trusty OS140RX and started flying again. So we shall soon see if the Mintor mods have worked. Some people seem to have had no problems at all. Maybe the folks at Mintor have picked up the Ferrari tradition of "brillinace or bust"! :-)
Old 01-13-2005, 12:32 PM
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MTK
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Default RE: 2stroke for pattern plane

That could be. Some have had few problems, I agree. Most have had similar problems to mine, from what I've been told.

The webra 145 symptoms you describe are new. I have seen about 15 of these run and I have yet to see one that spews fuel out of the carb. There is a little "spitting" evidenced by the brown staining on the header, but all 2 strokes do that. You can change the mixture to where it isn't spitting, (leaner), but it would be too lean at idle.

The pumps are definitely a suspect device with the Webras. I have also had the original pump go out on me at the start of the '04 season, but Horizon replaced it free. No more problems with the pump since. An alternate source is Perry. Brian B has been flying his 145 with a Perry pump and the standard TN carb, and has had excellent performance.

The RX is probably the most reliable of the set-ups. I had an early version and mine did not work reliably, but I was just unlucky. Most every other set-up I have seen, just works.

The OS160 is even more reliable than the 140 and has a little more output. I have two of these, one on a 12 pound model, the other NIB. Again a Perry pump is a good solution.

MattK
ORIGINAL: rodney tanner

Thanks Matt:
I have an OS 160FX and a rebuilt 140RX as backups, just in case :-) As for the Webra 145, I could never get mine to stop spewing fuel out of the carb and after 3 months of leaking unreliable pumps and a lot of frustration I went back to a trusty OS140RX and started flying again. So we shall soon see if the Mintor mods have worked. Some people seem to have had no problems at all. Maybe the folks at Mintor have picked up the Ferrari tradition of "brillinace or bust"! :-)
Old 01-26-2005, 04:59 AM
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FlyRCU
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Default RE: 2stroke for pattern plane

how deos the Os160FX match with the ys140/160DZ?
Old 01-26-2005, 09:07 AM
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Default RE: 2stroke for pattern plane

FlyPCU, the OS160FX will match the 160DZ in overall output, turning the same props at the same rpm give or take 100 or so. However carburation of the four stroke appears to be better at idle and transition, which will mean a little easier speed management in any attitude.

A re-pitched 3 blader ala Dave L. will help the 2 stroke brakes. I have also flown the 15.5x12 4 blade on this engine with good results in terms of brakes. A plain 25cc pipe from Macs #1092 works well and is inexpensive and reasonably light at 5 ozs. Karl Muller wrap around header or Hatori work fine.

OS is much more frugal with fuel than the DZ and doesn't require 30%Heli blend for top performance; plain 10% - 15% works fine.

Weights are very similar. Go to www.rcaerobats.net, Bob P's site, and look at his set-up. He outlines the specific details you need.

MattK
ORIGINAL: FlyRCU

how deos the Os160FX match with the ys140/160DZ?
Old 01-26-2005, 09:13 AM
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rhonea
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Default RE: 2stroke for pattern plane

Now why did you go and ask that question <BG>, you've opened the door, here comes the 2 cycle versus 4 cycle debate. Where is that Evil Monkey Man Guy, he'll like this question.

Russell Honea
www.patternproz.com
Old 01-26-2005, 09:43 AM
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Default RE: 2stroke for pattern plane

As I recall, that argument wasn't one sided. There was one other guy that was making unbelievable claims about his side.

In my view, there are pros and cons in practically everything pattern. Example: I've flown JR for 20 years and still believe they have the best servos in the business, but I really like HiTec's new gear train. At least the gear train concept using the composite gears; I believe JR servos would benefit, possibly eliminating the need for metal gears, and all that entails

mattK


ORIGINAL: rhonea

Now why did you go and ask that question <BG>, you've opened the door, here comes the 2 cycle versus 4 cycle debate. Where is that Evil Monkey Man Guy, he'll like this question.

Russell Honea
www.patternproz.com
Old 01-26-2005, 10:21 AM
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MHester
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Default RE: 2stroke for pattern plane

THE EVIL MONKEY IS IN THE HOUSE!!!!!!!!!

Hehe.

I'm in engine flux myself right now. I've run the OS 140RX for years with NO problems whatsoever, but now find that just getting one is becoming a pain.

I'm playing with the OS160, and if I can get it to work right, it'll be my mainstay. After all it's a common sport engine, and it stays in stock. I fly a LOT so I do tend to put some hot and heavy wear on an engine.

I'm also planning on getting a DZ160 this year, and doing some thorough testing for myself, to see if a regular guy without a lot of help can run one of these things. (I'm NOT expecting much help! Hehehehehehe) I swear I'll be totally 110% objective and patient.

As for the arguements, it takes 2 (or more) to tango. I just enjoy the debate, and some people are so stiff I'm suprised they aren't mistaken for walking corpses. But I'm used to it, I'll be the evil monkey if everyone insists on seeing me that way (which is why I wore the sig line for a while). Some people just need to lighten up and stop taking themselves and these planes so DEAD seriously. And there's my rant for the week.....

-Mike
Old 01-26-2005, 10:52 AM
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rhonea
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Default RE: 2stroke for pattern plane

Mike,

No problem in getting the OS stuff, I have been able to keep them in stock so far. I did have to personally go through a little wait for parts on the 1.40 EFI but I have 3 of them so it wasn't that big of a deal and now I am good to go on that engine.

MTK

I know that it take two to tango, I couldn't resist calling on The Monkey Man though, He makes me laugh!

Russell Honea
www.patternproz.com
Old 01-26-2005, 11:30 AM
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Default RE: 2stroke for pattern plane

So you havet he 140s stocked? I'll make note of that [8D]

Well, I try and get a laugh or 3, but some people just don't get my warped sense of humor methinks.

I think I'll get an evil monkey shirt for the nats......

-Mike
Old 01-26-2005, 12:58 PM
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rodney tanner
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Default RE: 2stroke for pattern plane

Like some others, I thought the Mintor 3M170 would be the way to go, as the 140RX got harder to find. I will start running my 170 next week. I have also sarted getting the parts together for the OS 160 FX either on a Perry or a Clien regulator. I think the OS160 will be the way to go, for the longer term even if the 3M170 works for me.

I'm also planning on getting a DZ160 this year, and doing some thorough testing for myself, to see if a regular guy without a lot of help can run one of these things. (I'm NOT expecting much help! Hehehehehehe) I swear I'll be totally 110% objective and patient.
Hmmmmmmm, should be interesting :-)
Old 01-26-2005, 01:44 PM
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Default RE: 2stroke for pattern plane

I thought I would just join the fun. I ran a YS 140L for two years on a 2M and it was perfect. Just clean and adjust the valves when the power seemed to fall off. Pretty expensive on the 30% nitro fuel though. I couldn't sell the airframe, so I just bought another YS 140 at a swap meet, cleaned it up, and may fly it this weekend.

I also found a Conquest 60 framed by Sam Turner and got a couple of Hanno 61s for it. I probably didn't need the back-up motor since the first one is just a joy to fly. Unlimited vertical, maybe 9 oz fuel per flight, and so quiet that someone always comes up to see what motor it is. Mister four stroke himself, Troy Newman, sent me a detailed email on how to set it up. So Troy does know a thing or two about two strokes.

I now have two Mintor 1.70s waiting for their rides in Temptations. I have broken one in on the stand, and it took a long careful break-in, but I have very high hopes for it. At least on the bench, it is quite linear and has no surges. It is set up just like Mintor said.

I think, if treated right, most of the pattern engines out there will perform. And in honor of the Evil Monkey Man's candor, I think most problems are associated with the person running the engine. Now, Mr. two stroke Mike is going to run a YS DZ160. Never say never. 20 oz of 30% nitro fuel per flight. I hear a large sucking sound in the vicinity of Mike's wallet. I bet he loves the throttle response.

Lem
Old 01-26-2005, 03:09 PM
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Default RE: 2stroke for pattern plane

Well, that's what I wanna find out [8D]

I have a very cheap fuel source down here, so it won't be THAT bad. I just want to see for myself if it's worth it or not. Oh and I never said "never", I just said "you guys must be nuts". Well, I feel temporary insanity setting in.....maybe. I just want to see for myself, with an open mind. That won't be easy for me, but hey, I'll try. You can bet it won't be on my primary plane unless it proves it's worth the hassle and the expense. If it turns out to be a pain, it's gone.

-Mike
Old 01-26-2005, 04:06 PM
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Default RE: 2stroke for pattern plane

Not to hijack the thread but if any of you that are running the mintor 170, I have a Hyde ARIAS mount that I am looking to sell. Little use on it. Will sell for 125.00.
Old 01-26-2005, 09:37 PM
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Default RE: 2stroke for pattern plane

I am far from competing , but do enjoy building and flying.
What is your suggestion of an economic pipe for OS160 (Mac 1060, 1090 or 1092 , others...) with a good pulling capability ?

Thanks a lot !!
Mike

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