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2005 F3A World Championships

Old 09-12-2005, 01:38 PM
  #251  
Cdallas2
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Default RE: 2005 F3A World Championships


ORIGINAL: Doug Cronkhite

As I said before.. there is somewhat of a conflict of interest when one of Japan's top pilots is being judged by his coach. I'm NOT saying Naruke intentionally gave higher scores to Onda.. but the bias, even subconcious IS there. There's no way he can be objective about it the same as someone with no vested interest.

The pilot draw for flight order should be done BY THE PILOTS, out in the open as is done in the full scale aerobatic world.

So basically your saying they are cheating. Without actually saying it.
Old 09-12-2005, 04:32 PM
  #252  
Doug Cronkhite
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Default RE: 2005 F3A World Championships

Not at all.. I'm saying it's human nature. I'm sure Naruke wouldn't conciously and intentially give marks higher to Onda just because he is his student. What I'm saying is the bias is there as a result of it and it represents a conflict of interest. Basic Psychology 101 stuff.
Old 09-12-2005, 05:01 PM
  #253  
Angus Balfour
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Default RE: 2005 F3A World Championships

There is also the school of thought that says the bias would work against Onda because Naruke is his coach he would not want to be seen to being bias therefore mark him more harshly.

As someone else said, Onda was by no means the only pilot at the champs who would of had coaching from one of the 20 judges present.

I'm finding it difficult to understand all this moaning. There seems to be a strong feeling of, "we are America and we are the best country in the world at aerobatics". You guys are very, very good at F3A, nobody is denying that, but if you had actually gone and looked at the Japs I think you would agree with the final individual and team placings. Can we not have some faith in the worlds top judges for once. Any of them reading this I'm quite sure would feel nothing but resentment at some of the comments being made.

Angus
Old 09-12-2005, 06:11 PM
  #254  
mups53
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Default RE: 2005 F3A World Championships

Angus I will tell you that many of the local flyers are happy that CLPR won because he was still flying an IC plane. I have never seen any flag waving for our guys. I doubt that it's much of a big deal to most.
Congrats to all the contestants. Win or lose it's good to see that such a great event has gone on interupted for so many years. If I were French or Japanese I would be very proud. I'm an American and I think we sent great pilots to represent us. Mike
Old 09-13-2005, 05:38 AM
  #255  
Angus Balfour
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Default RE: 2005 F3A World Championships

Mike, I totally agree
Old 09-13-2005, 07:09 AM
  #256  
J Lachowski
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Default RE: 2005 F3A World Championships

Problem with the US Team from what I have seen in action and heard is their lack of discipline in preparation. I don't know how many times I've seen these individuals doing last minute preparations, assembly, changes, repairs etc. in competition. They need to be better prepared and organized. They rely too heavily on there exceptional talents getting them through. I personally think we should select our team a few months right before the worlds instead of a year in advance. At least we will know that they are hopefully prepared and ready at that point and time and if someone is not, send the alternate.

Flame suit on!
Old 09-13-2005, 07:55 AM
  #257  
radray
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Default RE: 2005 F3A World Championships

I tend to agree with you Joe, it would be nice if the team trials were held a few months before the event when the competitors were on the top of their game, specifically in F3A. There could be significant changes in equipment and skills over the course of a year which could affect the make-up of the team. Having the trials a year out, means the competitors peak for the trials, relax or focus on something else, then have to peak again for the Worlds.
Old 09-13-2005, 12:54 PM
  #258  
Gregg G
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Default RE: 2005 F3A World Championships

Team selection used to be done that way. Problem of picking a team a few months before the World Championships became a funding issue. The thinking was that if the team were picked a year ahead, that would give the team manager more time to solicit funds for the team. Don't know if that's the right way of doing it, but that's why they did it.
Greg
Old 09-14-2005, 12:25 PM
  #259  
Jersey Joe
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Default RE: 2005 F3A World Championships

There is no reaon why fund raising efforts can't begin before the team is selected.
Old 09-14-2005, 01:58 PM
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Freddy
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Default RE: 2005 F3A World Championships

Angus:
I have read all your comments and not having been there they seem like the best report I have read about judging. For a "relative unknown" like your self to end up in (in my opinion high) 17th place is great!
Meaning: you are obviously a world class pilot and know what you are talking about.
Congratulations on your great results.
Old 09-14-2005, 02:37 PM
  #261  
Angus Balfour
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Default RE: 2005 F3A World Championships

Freddy my friend, you just made me blush!

I'm just letting people know my opinions and how I saw events. Some people will agree, some disagree but for those of you not lucky enough to attend hopefully they will perhaps give you a small insight as to what went on without ruffling too many feathers along the way (I hope).

Cheers,

Angus
Old 09-14-2005, 08:41 PM
  #262  
Gregg G
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Default RE: 2005 F3A World Championships


ORIGINAL: Jersey Joe

There is no reaon why fund raising efforts can't begin before the team is selected.
One of the responsabilities of the team manager is to make sure the team is adequately funded. He is not selected until the team is selected. The team selects the manager. I think the track record for Team USA has been a pretty good one. If it is not to be done this way, then who will be responsible for raising the money.
Greg
Old 09-15-2005, 09:24 AM
  #263  
Steve Neu
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Default RE: 2005 F3A World Championships

A a flier who has been on a number of F5B teams I can tell you it is not the job of the team manager to raise funds. Their job is to get the team to the contest and deal with the event officals. Fund raising is not listed as onne of the duties. Often they will help but as far as AMAs "Blue Book" goes that is not the important part of the job.

IMHO if the team members need money for travel it is their duty to get off their rears and make the calls and attend events!

Steve
Old 09-15-2005, 11:24 AM
  #264  
Gregg G
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Default RE: 2005 F3A World Championships

I agree with you Steve but unfortunately, for whatever reason that task has been given to the manager of the f3a team. Being around the previous team manager, (I think he was the team manager 3 times) it was his efforts that provided most of the funds that AMA didn't cover.
Greg
Old 09-15-2005, 02:13 PM
  #265  
Adamg-RCU
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Default RE: 2005 F3A World Championships

We, the three Canadian team pilots, did _all_ the fundraising work between our team trials in August 2004 and leaving for France, August 2005.
Old 09-15-2005, 04:00 PM
  #266  
radray
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Default RE: 2005 F3A World Championships

Since I am being a little critical of the process, three observations: the team manager should not be responsible for the fund raising; the fund raising could perhaps be sponsored by the SIG-NSRCA at the earliest time after the previous World's; and the team manager probably should not be selected by the team.
Old 09-15-2005, 06:05 PM
  #267  
J Lachowski
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Default RE: 2005 F3A World Championships

Just think, the NSRCA could be selling hats and T-shirts, etc to support the team for the next worlds on the NSRCA website as early as January 2006 along with other NSRCA related merchandise. Just a thought.
Old 09-15-2005, 06:49 PM
  #268  
Capiche
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Default RE: 2005 F3A World Championships

Some humble comments from somone that is closer to it than might be obvious.

Funding, to me, is a red herring - ie an excuse.

I absolutely accept that today commercialism is unavoidable but it is possible to produce a competitive aircraft on a low (relatively) budget if you have that great commodity - time.

Now I dont have a problem with talented people throwing money at the hobby - I would almost encourage it because it causes development, but you do not often get a simaltaneous arrival of talent and money at the same time.

CPLR is beatable as soon as the time / money ratio reaches a better equalibrium.. Is this ever possible in modern life ? I don't know. But having been influenced through my f3a years time and attention to detail takes a higher spot than value of aircraft.

He who makes a good job with a bad aircraft will always in the end beat he who makes a good job with a good aircraft.

MY FAVOURITE RESULTS FROM THE WC THIS YEAR : BENOIT, AND ANGUS ![8D]
Old 09-16-2005, 05:35 AM
  #269  
Scott Smith
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Default RE: 2005 F3A World Championships


ORIGINAL: Double-vision

8. I asked Bob Skinner after seeing that the TBL program had been modified, apparently by the CD's brother...
FAI Code 5.1.9
Only computer tabulation systems containing the TBL algorithm and judge analysis programs and approved by the CIAM Bureau can be used at World and Continental Championships.

Just curious if the alleged mod was approved by the CIAM Bureau
Old 09-16-2005, 03:00 PM
  #270  
papaone
 
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Default RE: 2005 F3A World Championships

Hi
CPLR tells us dimension of T tail above fuselage on our french forum.
envergure = 200 mm
cordes = 100 mm / 60 mm
BF = straight
Profil = Naca 10 %
Hight = 50 mm
incidence = -0,5 °
Pilots who tested it on Oxalys say it's very efficient in rolling (only a slight correction) and knife edge (less incidence of fuselage) by reducing 50 % rudder movement.
(rolling becomes very smooth).

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Old 09-16-2005, 05:09 PM
  #271  
SPMPROD
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Default RE: 2005 F3A World Championships

Quote "He who makes a good job with a bad aircraft will always in the end beat he who makes a good job with a good aircraft." !!!!!!??????

Capiche had too much vino again?? [sm=spinnyeyes.gif]
Old 09-16-2005, 07:14 PM
  #272  
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Default RE: 2005 F3A World Championships

May be too much glow fuel?
Old 09-18-2005, 11:40 PM
  #273  
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Default RE: 2005 F3A World Championships

Please F3A world why can we use the world champs as an opportunity to be judged by our peers not the poor old guys that are used now. The guy who just missed out on the team for his country would be great to be on the invite list of judging. I understand some countrys are not that competeive to get on the team, there could be a k-factor set up for each country based on sheer numbers of flyers who show up at the trials for their country. Then skinner can select from there best options if any problems can be forseen.
Old 09-19-2005, 02:44 AM
  #274  
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Default RE: 2005 F3A World Championships

the best pilot may not be the best judge...
Old 09-19-2005, 09:20 AM
  #275  
Capiche
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Default RE: 2005 F3A World Championships

No, not too much vino !

The point is that it takes more skill to fly a less than perfect aircrat to the same standard as a flight with a perfect aircraft.

Any budding F3a enthusiast at a club standard would appear to have had his flying abilities transformed if he was given a go on a top spec and finely tuned model like CPLRs Oxalys..... but his flying abilities will not really have changed at all...but the capability that he has might not be totally recogniseable until that point because he has been forcing a less perfect model to perform well.

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