LaCerne

My Feedback: (16)

Same company, I wouldn't trust that they haven't messed it up also. Ultracote for me in the future.

DrDeath

My Feedback: (3)

Well, a fellow club member pointed me to this thread after I had a rant on our Club house thread about MK. I have been using this stuff off and on for years. I liked UK better for ease of application, but I just purchased a roll of MK because I liked the "True Red" better than the UK "True Red". Talk about a PAIN in the butt for me last night. I am not a master coverer, but I am pretty good and I had to rip it off a couple of times to get it semi looking good. As someone else said, the shrinking doesn't happen as easy as it used to and you have to use an iron. I have had to fire up the iron and the heat gun to temperatures that I haven't had to use before to get it to adhere. As everyone else her has said, I thought I was the problem. I will not use MK again after this experience.

DD

8178

My Feedback: (17)

If you’ve had problems with MonoKote from Tower, I encourage you to give them a call.

RaceCity

Ya know...I would have thumbed my nose at this thread if I hadn't seen this same, exact problem just recently. Who knew???

Almost the same problem. I didn't get that "gritty" look. Just some odd behaviour with shrink and adhesion.

I've used the product countless times. Never had a glitch, and then all the sudden....it doesn't want to stick to a major-clean surface, seems to need a blow torch to shrink properly over open areas, and even my tried & true "low heat and rub it down" on the sheeted surfaces was giving me fits. I even saw the color separate from the backing in a few inconspicuous spots.

I thought I was losing my mind. Part of the job was done with an old roll of transparent red. Not a problem...

I got a new roll at the LHS to finish the model.....it was like I was working with heavy gauge Handi-Wrap.

It's done now. Hope this isn't a new trend though....

LaCerne

My Feedback: (16)

This is actually the 2nd time I've seen MK have a problem. In 1989 I built a Phillip's Mistress and covered the wing in primarily white monokote. In one season of flying the white turned very yellow outside of the fuse area. I still have a Jekyll from 1991 that's MK white and it hasn't yellowed at all that I can tell. Very frustrating when they aren't consistent with their product. I may find similiar problems with Ultracote after I've used it for a while, but for now the 2 planes I've used it on seem fine.

Larsen

aviti

My Feedback: (54)

deleted as I posted this in Giant Forum

HFrank

Well, I'm not alone !!! I started building 8 years ago, and working with MK was easier then, recently, working with white MK is a REAL pain in the butt, [:'(] other colors are not a as difficult. I've always used Monocote, but I'm seriously considering Ultracote

Dagern

Hi,

Just finished covering using Ultracote/Oracover. The film stretches very easily rund corners and you are able to get a wrinkle free finish. The finish is not as glossy as Monokote though.

~DR

narpets

Well I've had a different problem w/ Moneycote. For me and a few fellow club members, the stuff shatters after a few years. I brought samples to them at Toledo and after showing them the problem ( I took a sheet I cut from the wing of my Kadet that was covered about a year prior, and a sheet of Ultracote that was a few years old that I got from the club trash can, crumbled both into a ball. MC was a million tiny pieces, and the UC just had a few wrinkles when I undid the ball) The only reply I got from someone was I used too much heat. Well that kinda contradicts what was told earlier in this thread
Here's a thread I started a few years ago. Has pictues of the shattering, and more details. Seems we're not the only ones having the problems. BTW, my Ultracote covered s mentioned in that thread are still going strong. Last fall I even aggressively poked the wing of my Kadet that was covered w/ Transparent Ultracote back in 2003 as a demo to show some guy who's monocote was shattering. Not a single hole
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...light=monocote

patternflyer1

My Feedback: (11)

I've had the same problem for a while with the white. I found it better to tack one edge with the iron and pull it tight while working it with the heat gun. Fairly wrinkle free. I'll see how it goes on the wings today though. LOL
Chris

EHFAI

A couple of folks contributing to this thread were going confront the GP Monokte gurus with samples of the current problem MK and the old well behaved MK at Toledo. Any luck?

MikeEast

My Feedback: (3)

I had the exact same problem I see in RCPrecision's picture when I re covered the wing on my Ultimate. Normally monokote goes on smooth and gives a slick finish forme. The last batch of white and a dark red yielded the same results for me. No matter how careful I was the finish was rough and grainy. I had to get the iron as hot as I could to get it to really stick. I hate the result, its about a C- finish at best and I practically had to melt it on. The white and Red were the worst. I could not believe that the wood was not smooth enough. A 600 grit sanding usually yields a slick surface.

Im just average at using MK or UK, I can do a nice job if I take my time but I'm subject to make mistakes so I though it was just me.. However, If Glen (RCPrecision) cant get it to work, I don't think anyone can. He has the cleanest monokote work I have ever seen. His work is virtually perfect in every way from the planes I have seen. If he says something is wrong you need to listen up.

patternflyer1

My Feedback: (11)

Well, after working the wings today, the white is crap!!!!!!!!
Hey Bill? Explain to me how I can add more heat and press harder on a balsa sheeted foam core wing...... I'm already at the recommended heat.
Last roll of crapcote for me....
Chris

patternflyer1

My Feedback: (11)

This is really getting to me now. I put the red on the fuse last night from one roll. It went on perfect. I opened a new roll, bought at a different store on the same day to use on the wings tonight. It looks like crap!!!!!!!!! The plastic backing just falls off of it when I unroll it.
It's just like the bad pics.
Applied at the same heat and pressure that I used yesterday. Matter of fact the same heat and pressure that I laid down the white that also looks like crap but not nearly as bad, and also the blue and yellow which are fine.
BILL, you owe us some answers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I got an idea, how about you come tear off this crap and show me how its done.
Sorry, but I don't have time or money for this.
Chris

rcprecision

My Feedback: (6)

Mike,

Thanks for kinds words...how about we change course by discussing the alternatives to MK. Personally I do not care for Ultracote, it lacks the luster and high gloss of MK. What else is out there that compares to the high gloss appearance to MK?

patternflyer1

My Feedback: (11)

Last time I was down at world models here in california he was telling me that they were getting a full line of covering that was supposed to be light. I have a roll for one of my planes and it is light and has a good gloss. I may need to look into it.
Chris

narpets

My dealings w/ them at Toledo were a few years ago. When I did my "demo" of how the stuff crumbles I did it right after their covering demo. A few other ers there said they were having the same problems. The guy swept up all the dust, and whisked me off to the back were he took my information and told he he was going to have one of his engineers look at this and get back to me. No one ever did. The next year I brought a few more samples and told a few guys there about no one getting back to me. I was assured that someone would contact me. This is when I was also told by another GP rep to expect this, and to just re-cover ever year. That has been a few years ago, and no contact. Since switched to Ultracote, and don't really care at this point. With this kind of Customer support ( or lack there of) I wouldn't use it if it was a dollar a roll and made the crash proof Personally I'll give up the er and high gloss for durability. From a few feet away, and a year later I don't think anyone will notice, but they sure notice all the holes
Last year I had another support issue with them regarding Futab receivers. Long story, but in a nutshell I have 3 Futaba receivers that have never been crashed, they work fine w/ glow engines and brushed electric motors, but not w/ brushless. I spoke w/ a few different reps, and got varied responses from they can't help me unless I put a diode across the terminals ( yes on a brushless motor), to "hum, shouldn't happen", to send them in and for $35 + shipping a piece they will look at them, and if they need repaired they will repair them ( for an additional charge of course). Needless to say I haven't bought any Futaba gear or any GP realated item since.

patternflyer1

My Feedback: (11)

Well, I know others with futaba receiver- brushless motor problems. I have none and run the AXI-F3A motor with all Airtronics gear. No problems at all. As for the monokote, I was just looking at the backs of the good red that I used and the bad red. They look very different even though they are the same color bought the same day at different stores. The bad one looks really blotchy. I am returning it and to other rolls tomorrow. I will send in samples to Bill with a letter. I'll never hear back from him, I'm sure. As others haven't either obviously.
I'm done with monokote.
Chris

Dre

My Feedback: (2)

RcPrecision (Glen Watson) has more patience for Monokote that anyone I know. His work is excellent and holds up. Case in point: I have an airplane he covered for me that is 4+ years old and has 2000+ flights. I still get comments on the covering work. Upshot: If Glen says Monokote has a problem, it has a big problem and there is not much hope for the rest of us.

I too find the dull finish of UC is somewhat unappealing when put next to paint.

As to alternatives to Monokote, I like to paint, but painting is tedious and the results can be heavy if you are not careful. I have explored the ability of PPG to stick to films (Ultracote and Monkote) and found it sticks very well to both, even unscuffed, and the covering can be shrunk some after painting. The PPG sticks so well that you can apply packing tape and tear the tape off with no paint removal--and no primer is used). So......

I think Ultracote Light could be used as a base coat for painting. It is less than half the weight of Monokote (~2.53 grams/100 in2). The material goes on very easy, shrinks well and stays stuck. Depending on how you prepared the wood and put the material on, I do not think you would see wood grain (surface irregularities) after painting. UC Lite comes in a limited number of flavors (e.g., white), and while it is not totaly opaque, it would be fine as a "blocking coat." I figure a few light, wet coats over the UC Lite and you would have the desired opacity/color saturation. Sounds encouraging, but....what I have not figured out yet is how to get around pulling-up the covering when you tape-up the color scheme. Other than de-tacking the tape a bit before use (like we used to do when paint did not stick as well), I do have a good work-around here.

In any event, this thread has sufficiently discouraged me from using Monokote on my current project, so I am going to try the above process. Worst case is that I tear it off, which I would have done with MK several times anyway!

Andre Bouchard

NJRCFLYER2

My Feedback: (42)

I seem to recall from some email forum discussion years back, that Ultracote can be made glossy with some elbow grease and wax. I can't remember what wax worked best, but supposedly it can be rubbed out to look really nice. I think it might be true, because I have seen some models done in Ultracote that rival a Monokote for gloss.

Unfortunately, I've given up on Monokote too. I'm really disappointed in the responses I got when I reported the problems. I've had good results in the past and have used the product a long time and I'm totally convinced there's a problem now. I used up some old stock (about 1 1/2 year old stuff) and then did the rest of a 40% Extra covering project with 4 colors of newer stock purchased in late 2005 and early 2006 at 2 different hobby shops in NJ and NH (sent away for some laser cut pieces from a shop in NH) and had the same exact problems with every roll. I'm told I should buy a Top Flite iron. Moving on...

patternflyer1

My Feedback: (11)

A top flite iron huh. Since when is a different iron set at the same temperature going to make any difference? My irons (yes, i use 3 when covering) were all set at the same temperatures, within an hour of each color and the yellow and blue were good and the red and white were bad!!
An iron, my *****!!!!!!!!!!!

BILL...... ARE YOU HEARING US?????????????
You can't hide behind the monitor you know???
It's going to affect sales!!!!!!!!!!!
All of your sales!!!

EHFAI

Model Research Labs http://www.modelresearchlabs.com/index.html offers a number of Mylar films for modeling and a good description of their properties. They have a 0.0015 shrinkable film with adhesive that appears to be in the same weight range as the UC Lite mentioned by Dre. Of interest is that the description mentions that the adhesive is high enough temp for the seams not to "slip" during shrinking. This material is clear and would require painting. The width is a bit narrow @ 24" while the length is 75 feet @ $25/roll. Anybody tried this material?

MikeEast

My Feedback: (3)

I had to make a small repair on my Genesis wing about 1 month ago. The Genesis is covered with Ultracote. It was my 1st time to use the stuff and it went on really well. Everywhere I had to lap it over the original covering I had no bubbling and it went over my repairs as smooth as glass. If not for the seam at the edge of the patch you would not know it was there.

Generally speaking, how much weight does covering a whole wing with Ultracote over Monokote add?

Stuart Chale

I just repaired the wing on my desire (pulled out a gear in the brush) with 12+ year old Monokote and it went on fine, Just like I remember it As a note the pock marked surface and tin foil like properties have occurred before to monokote. This occurred in the late 80's or early 90's. The replies from Top Flite were the same, but apparently the problem dissappeared for a while.

My Atlanta was not covered in Monokote. I had to check my leftover rools to remember what I did cover it with. It was Black Baron film. Not as glossy and with some imperfections compared to Monokote. I used a product called Liquid Ebony, a final polishing compound used for painted surfaces. I did improve the gloss a little for the black baron film. I do not know if it would work for Ultracote as well.

The Atlanta pictures are here http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3384732/tm.htm The Black Baron film has held up as well as properly applied "good" Monokote over the years.

Stuart

ini

Ultracote is the same stuff as Oracover here in Europe.

You can see weights of different colors here
[link=http://www.oracover.biz/xml/frames.xml?onav=onav.xml?node_id=381&site=site_orange1.xml?node_id=381&lanav=lanav.xml?node_id=381]Ultracote/Oracover technical data[/link]

More info of Ultracote/Oracover [link=http://www.oracover.de/xml/frames.xml?onav=onav.xml?node_id=261&site=site_blau2.xml?node_id=261&lanav=lanav.xml?node_id=261]here[/link]


ini