Troy,
Very well said. We can't expect a $450 model to be comparable to a $3000 model, and we can't call them junk when they aren't perfect in everyway. The fact they can do it at all is amazing, given the relatively low quantities of pattern airplanes that are sold. I had to make mods when I was flying Arresti IIIs, as I knew I would when I bought them. I'm glad you identified the problem with the wing, as I know that Bryan Kennedy's also failed, although not at his hands. Sounds like a simple mod. I'm glad this type of airplane is available for the new pilots especially, and for those of us who may have a major oops during the season. I'm especially glad the Focus is available again, as that airplane has proven to be a real workhorse, and many of them are on their third owner.

This is a little off topic, but you said that Quique is flying Oxai now? Are they going to produce one of his own designs?

Jon Lowe

Yes Quique is working with Oxai on a new model.

It is not ready for release as far as photos and detail yet.

Troy

First
I would like to thank Brain and Jim,at Ultra RC for there outstanding support in helping
me with my problem.Just like Troy said,the Evolution is a very good flying airplane.
Also thanks , goes out to Troy, Greg and Jerry Budd for ID the problem and the fix
that would help prevent future wing failure.

I spoke with Brain and Jim, explained what had happen sent photo's, explained the Modification
to help fix the wing problem that Troy spoke of. Brain contacted the Engineer's in China
sent photo's and the Modification, an WOW!!! . As we speak there is a Brand New Evolution
sitting in my Living room with a Newly Modify Wing that was FREE FREE FREE, that I got today
via UPS

Now if I can only get Troy, to install a DEP system my Evolution that would be GREAT !!!!
The new Wing, has ALL the Modification that Troy Suggestioned

Thanks
Troy
Greg
Jerry
Ultra RC Brain and Jim

Jason and Chip aren't "big boys"? Somebody needs to let them down easy....



-Mike

Hey Troy,

I see your point and understand where your coming from. I am sorry that I upset your sensibilities and bashed a plane I never got a chance to fly. Please allow me to retract my comments regarding "recall". I am sorry about that and I didn't mean to place undue stress on anyone.

I was only reacting due to the frustrations I had last summer when I ordered a Evo after I had a mid-air at a pattern meet last summer - the Evo was new then and I got one of the very first planes.

It was me and Brian K. that had the mid air - and we both ordered Evos soon after. And I guess we all know what happened to BK.


But -

My plane came damaged, and I have to say that the shipping package was rather poor. After a difficult time contacting Brian (URC)- a second kit to came in even worst shape, then I asked Brian for a refund and it took an extended period of time to get my money back. In the mean time I was in the lurch not having a replacement plane, and my money was in limbo - It was very frustrating seeing Brian on the thread and him not returning my calls. You can see my posts back on the first couple of pages here asking Brian to return my call after seeing him on the thread.

If you look back at my posts I really wanted or rather needed to have a good plane quickly. And I was excited about the plane. Considering it's advertised as an ARF, my thought was I could have it together almost overnight - as I am a scratch builder and have a full shop. I was in a points race for my district last year, you might remember me from the D3 comp. You helped me with my Central header - you where very helpful and spent time also showing me how to adjust my valves later that day. Thanks for that help that day my friend, I needed it and you got me going.

It sure seems like URC is now more in-tune to customer service. I do feel they can offer a good product but after seeing two of the kits, my only feelings where that there where some quality control issues - and it sure seems like a number of issues have arised since my first experience.

I only call them as I see them and I do have empathy for us 401, 402 guys as I am one of them. But if this is a design, engineering or human flaw it's a big one and should of been caught before some poor sportsman pilot spent his money. This is not like peeling chinakote or having to reinforce a motor mount. This is a major repair even if it only takes a few mins. A major repair that a newbie builder might be very nervous about doing right.

I do agree with you that URC is doing a great service bringing in planes like the Evo. But asking the average sportsman pilot that might not have any building experience to pick up this slack is questionable. Only because that average pilot has spent his entire budget on the promise of acquiring a good airframe without a major flaw like this.

For the new 401 pilot confidence in the airframe is more important than mine or your credibility. And excuse me for saying this but if experience as a 401 or a 402 pilot is some measure of credibility, than I have to say I must have a least a small measure of that creditability that you refer to. Only because I do have experience as a 401 and 402 pilot and I've attended a lot of meets in my first years and was in a district with some very good pilots. Even if it's only in 401.

I am only saying that because I was that "sportsman pilot" last year and if one of the two Evos I bought last year would of arrived undamaged, I am sure with my luck I would of had one of the first wing failures. Most often you lose the motor, mount, and some of the radio gear in a crash like that, having them replace a $400 airframe is only a drop in the bucket compared to the total loss.

So with that - I wish URC and everyone invested in this plane the best of luck. and again sorry for my comments.

If there is anyone out there that is in the Atlanta area that needs help fixing this problem with the plane I would be glad to help. Send me a PM and come over to my shop. I really am a positive guy and I do want to help pilots too, you speak of mentors and I have had the best. We all need to share the love and help our fellow pilots.

So Troy - I am sorry for my off the cuff remarks. But please try to understand where I am coming from as well. I hope we are still friends as I have often thought back to the help you gave me last year. I've used your technique of YS valve adjustment many times since.

oh, my wife and I raise 7 pound Pomeranians so I am sure your dog would win that fight too. : )

take care all and the best of luck,

Dean

Okie Doke, I'll take a stab at it. Let me put it in perspective, albeit, sobering

RC'ing is on very few people's radar, the latest RC equipment slated for Defense notwithstanding.
Pattern flying on the other hand, is truly on practically no one's radar.... nearly nobody cares. (You and I are "nobody" so we do). If we all (pattern related activists) went away tomorrow, who would miss us??

Off the soap dish
Matt

Not a soul that didn't fly pattern.

But I'm having way too much fun, so I hope that doesn't happen any time soon!!!!

Very few people ever make a dime off of this game, and fewer still get anything substantial for being even the best of pilots.

You really have to WANT to do this, and find your own rewards from it. Personally I find the modeling aspect much more rewarding than the flying, so I know that puts me in rare company. Especially at my age. Dean for instance is the same. he loves to fly, but he really gets his kicks in the shop.

I really do want to say something about "credability".

If I want to learn how to fly a rolling circle, I ask a good FAI pilot.

If I want to learn how to build a fantastic set of wings, I ask a good builder. I don't need to check the scores at the nats to find credibility with a builder. I look at what they do. Some of the best builders...craftsmen...in this game couldn't fly thier way out of a wet paper bag. Most of them you've never even heard thier name before. if you find a GOOD builder, even if he's flying sportsman, he has credibility....he doesn't have to win FAI.

Conversely I know a few VERY good FAI pilots that are some of those "bozos that can't glue 2 sticks together". They are darned good pilots. But don't let them near a bottle of CA, or heaven forbid any sharp objects!!!!

As to the defect which started this whole thing, Hangar 9 had exactly the same problem with thier first Edge 540. They lost quite a few planes over it. Not sure how they handled it, but I am fairly certain URC doesn't have the resources that Hangar 9 has, and can't really afford to eat a boatload of planes. This is the main reason I don't do ARFs right now. We make mistakes all the time, but they are easily fixable.

The Evolution is what it is. A great flying plane, but a $429 ARF. Don't expect a Pinnacle. but also don't be suprised if you have to do some major rework here and there, that's just how it goes. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend that plane to anyone, and have on several occasions. As long as they know it may have a problem, and they DO need to check. That's not bashing this plane or URC in ANY way, I would just consider it common courtesy. I am sure Brian is addressing this problem as he has in the past.

This isn't the same as a gear block......

I am looking at pictures of the Evo and I can't tell if the wing has open bays all the way to the root. It looks like it's sheeted at the center section. Maybe it is open the entire span. maybe not. It's hard to tell by the photos but it looks like the center area is sheeted to the end of the wing tube.

The problem with the webbing fix is you really need to run the webbing all the way from the root to the tip, if the center section is sheeted and does not provide easy access, and only adding the new shear webbing from the outer section past the wing tube to the tip will not solve the problem and in fact will make the problem worse as it will load all that stress right there at the mid-section. The wing could be less strong and even more prone to failure as the out board section will have more leverage on that weak spot where the new shear webbing starts.

The thing I noticed about the Evos was the quality of the wood, I buy all my wood from really great US suppliers for my scratch builds. I never seen wood like the kind used in the two planes I inspected. Both the balsa and lite ply seemed very different than what I normally would use.

All this could lead to really bad experience.

The best way to build a balsa ribbed "open bay" wing section is to enclose the wing tube with vertical shear webbing between two sets of spars and run that the entire way out from the root to the tip.

If the evos center section is sheeted this repair would require removing the balsa sheeting at the center and replacing the webbing all the way to the root. This would require more than just a small slit. If this is the case you could also induce a major warp into the wing panel, this is not the best situation for any pilot to face.

It might be easier just to get a new foam wing cut, buy new wing tubes, covering and hardware which could cost upwards of about $100 bucks.

just an FYI for you guys that have high dollar airborne packages in these ships...

And again, I am only trying my best here to help my fellow pilots, not trying to bash anyone or any product.

good luck all, dean

Dean
I don't know about you but I've never seen a plane over 60in wingspan that had open bays all the way to the root. I sure wouldn't want it. The evo is sheeted out past the wing tube. Now go back and re-read Troy's instructions.



Cutting a 1/16 slit through 1 layer of balsa sheeting and sliding the 1/16th VERTICAL shear webbing through this slit is something so simple even I think I can do that and I'm not an experienced big time builder like you.

In fact he went on to explain it a second time in his next post.
Did you read this part
"To cut any sheeting away would only require maybe 3-4 bays on each wing panel. I would cut the sheeting flush on the back side of the spar and make it 1/16" slot from rib to rib. Then put some epoxy on the shear web and slide it down the top sheeting and the top spar. When dry just sand it flush with the sheeting of the wing"


What you said may not be considered bashing a product by your standards BUT IMHO telling me to throw a wing away because it can't be fixed and trying to word it as an FYI to be helpful is even worse . You are basing your reasons on WRONG information about a product that you've never built(you returned yours) and thusly you are providing incorrect information and creating the impression the product will end up inferrior if a "fix" is attempted. That's pathetic and transparent that you are still trying to put down a product you don't like.

I am glad to get a good flying plane at a price I can afford that I can "assemble" in the limited time I have.
I have and always will modify any ARF I assemble if I think I can improve on it. A little work to an ARF is better than the time it takes to build from scratch or a kit. Now it is my dream to build something like a BM or Pentathlon (wood) or a Symphony or Shinden(composite) when I get the time and money, but it may never happen. Work,family,church ,and I need to think about the order I just wrote those, will probably always keep me from it.

Let me give you an example of just how silly you are being.
---Have you ever built an ARF that you strenghtened the firewall and fuelproofed it. Man !! that was a piece of crap - You need to tell the world don't buy it because it isn't worthy to be used. The manufacturer didn't build it good enough.
--- Have you ever heard of anyone replacing the hardware in an ARF. I agree in an ideal world all arf's would come with ballbearing control horns and a deps system installed (ETC) but we accept them as is for the price!!!! and change what we don't like or we build our own. To each his own !!

Good luck to you and I hope you had fun!!

Eddie Batchelor

Eddie,

well taken and I am out of here, I was only trying to help...

sorry for my error.

dean

Eddie, do you realize how silly YOU are being?

Fuel proofing a firewall and replacing hardware aren't even in the same universe as a potentially catastrophic wing failure. That's a chance a lot of people just won't take.

I'm not going to berate you because what we're talking about is a matter of degree. Apparently, you see a wing failure in the same catagory as replacing hardware. Uhhhhh.....ok.

Well, fly on, and have fun!

laterz.
-M

Geez Mikie, what the heck ruffled your feathers?? And Eddie, you too man. You fellas should drop it and go build some more planes. C'mon do I hear an LOL out there??

MattK

Hey I'm the one that's getting torn up here and yea I got say I am having a good old LOL down here in my shop...

Let me get this right - you guys are going to cut a slit in the balsa sheeting and blindly slide in a piece of 1/16" balsa with some epoxy on the edge and hope it's going to stick on some spar. And your all fixed up as good as new....

yea - good luck with that...

If your going to try that, please use at least 1/8" wood.


LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL


sorry I couldn't resist....

I really am unsubscribing now.....

and again I am sorry for my comments. I really am a good positive kind of guy But this is really getting funny....


: ) : ) : ) : ) : ) : ) : ) : ) : ) : ) : )

Mike
You are correct. I did not compare a catastrophic wing failure with replacing hardware or bracing a firewall. Maybe I didn't word it correctly as I was comparing the minor "FIX" to prevent the catastrophic failure to be as simple as the minor "FIXES" I used as a reference.

If anyone saw my post as out of line for pointing out that Dean was using bad information to say it can't be done, please let me know. I'll go back and remove the post with an apology.

I'm going to strengthen my wing and enjoy it.

Again I thank Ulta RC and Troy Newman for all their help.
Eddie

Why, do my feathers seem ruffled?

They're not, I was just trying to illustrate a large gap in perception. I was just a bit suprised when I read all of that.

This is a fantastic day over here! I was just a little concerned, but that's cool. My only concern is people losing planes, but maybe I'm just too picky, too critical, I dunno. hard to tell where the line is sometimes, it gets blurred. I had heard of this before on the H9 Edges (I was building one for a guy at the time) and I remembered the grain running the wrong direction on the sheer webs, and a lot of planes going down. So naturally in a similar situation, I get cautious. And because I've recommended this plane to numerous people, I get MORE cautious. I'll try and track them all back down and give them a heads up...other than that, to each his own. Back to my hole, gots dust to make, planes to play with, and my daughter's b-day is tomorrow!

So truly LOL for real,

Y'all be cool...right on...


-Mikey

No big deal, we just have differences in opinion as to what constitutes a "serious" problem, and what constitutes a "minor fix".

If the fix holds, then cool. Hint: gaps kill in this case. Those joints need to be tight if you're going to attempt it. if it's sloppy, you're rolling the dice against the odds. If you already have the covering peeled away, consider running a strip of 1/4" .007 carbon over the top of the sheer web and spar. just use CA. maybe it's overkill, but you're already there so why not?

I have no horse in this race, I just wanted to be sure about what was up because I would HATE it if someone said "Mike told me I should get this plane, then the wing flew off and I lost a zillion dollars in engine/radio gear/etc". I hate it when that happens. And it has happened.

But if it's cool with you, it's cool with me!

-Mike

Hello all :

I have just spent the last two evenings adding strength to my Evolution wings. I followed Troy Newmans advise after studying the plans of several other older pattern planes Namely the Typhoon 2000 and that series planes that were popular back years ago .The wing structure used in the Typhoon built up wing is almost the same as the Evolution with only small differences in design. The shear web is vertical grain 1\16 balsa between each rib just like I added to the Evolution only now I have cross grain 1/8 shear webs. I would think that it would be as strong. The wing is much stiffer now than before. The work was easy to do anyone could do it. As for the comments about inserting the indoard webs blind through the sheeting that is not the case , you can see in the root end very well and also see in from the middle with the covering off making is easy to get the placement correct. I have no guarantee that this will work, I hope it does the plane flies really well . I hope that Ultra and others will keep bringing us good entry Level planes all this needs is a little tweaking .

Thanks Kirk

Kirk,

As long as people buy them, then they will continue to be offered. Look at what Dave Guerrin did with his Focus....he and Steve built a new company around the model's popularity. That's a great thing for many...... (I still abhor arfies, but even I am thinking of throwing some business Ultra's way. Truth is I can barely scratch build one for 400$ when one considers all the factors. And I trust Troy's flying experience enough to take his input)

MattK

Wow, I quit using Rcu and look what happens.. LOL

I had heard of a wing failure on this plane quite some time ago. I had already hung my Evolution on the wall as I got an Abbra. But as I read this it got me to thinking I'll check my wings as I recovered them and have pics. Plus I have 3 extra wings that were sent as replacements.
All 5 of the wings have the balsa the wrong direction. These are first batch wings though.
Thanks for posting the info Troy.
Jarvis, sorry to hear about your evo. Hope this one goes better for you.. If not, mine is for sale. [sm=wink_smile.gif]

This being said, I flew mine maybe 20 flights. It does fly good. I think it fly's as good as my abbra. It takes less mix, that's for sure.
I put it through the 45 degree down 1 1/2 positive snap many times though as it is really good at it, and I never noticed a wing problem yet. I'll definitely do Troy's fix though before I sell it.

Chris

Hey
Chris
The New Evolution Wings has the Mod, already done by the factory,.
I just don't have enough time to put it together before the Riverside Contest,
will be flying the MK TopStar. Will you an Vick make it to the Contest.
The Mailman at the door, Holy Cow it my New PENTATHLON by Mark
Hunt Wow Wow the Evolution is going on the Back Burner.

Riverside, no. Too much work at this point. Not sure that I'll even goto Richmond. And I had it planned. I've been working 80 hour weeks so no flying has really been happening for me. Gonna sneak out tomorrow morning though as I finally have a day off. Thank god for the easter bunny!!!

Pentathalon eh?? Nice.
Glad to hear your excited about your new ships!!
Your topstar is pretty nice. Should do you well at Riverside..
Vic will be there. Funny story about that actually. Vic called me this morning and told me that he loaded his plane and all his stuff last night. Then he got ready to leave this morning and he looked at the calender and realized the contest is next weekend. LOL!!!!!!!!!!

I can already hear Scott Covey after he reads this saying "Chris, YOU NEED A NEW CALLER!!!!!! LOL

Vic's out there sometimes but he's been a great longtime family friend.

Hope you guys have fun and good luck with your builds!

Chris

A new caller? maybe just one that knows how to concentrate when he/she's calling for you?

sc

Anyone else using a 160 with a tuned pipe. How due you handle the extra length? This is 26" from the Exhaust Flange.

Looks like it's chopping time. . .

I used a greve on the one I put together for my friend. It was much longer than the tunnel.
I had to go to the next former back. It's not really difficult. I think the blue color was ultracote sky blue. Matches very well.

I'll see if I can dig some pics up if I get a chance..

Chris