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Can i ask something?

Old 01-02-2003, 02:01 PM
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AngelosCyprus
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Default Can i ask something?

Can i ak something? At the age of 14 (8 years ago) i had an interest in pattern ships. I remember all of the planes had retracts fitted i also bought some plans for andy nickols "illusion" it had retracts also, What changed since then , it seems that all the planes carry fixed gear now (I was out of the hobby for five years now)?
Old 01-02-2003, 02:13 PM
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CHassan
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Default Can i ask something?

I'm not 100% sure, but I think the benifit you get from the retracts in the form of reduced drag does not rationalize the extra weight. Plus the extra drag can be benificial in a downline, to maintain a slower speed.
Old 01-02-2003, 02:15 PM
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AngelosCyprus
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Default Can i ask something?

Thanks CHassan for the reply. So this is the reason.Nothing to do with rules change.Do all the models carry fixed gear now?
Old 01-02-2003, 03:39 PM
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robert
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Default Can i ask something?

Chassen, I was talking to a pilot at the worlds, who switched his plane from retracts, to Znline gear, and he told me that the plane was actually lighter with retracts. But the difference was very little, can't remember what it was, but very little.
Old 01-02-2003, 03:48 PM
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rcprecision
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Default Retracts vs Fixed

Angelo,

The current trend to fixed gear has absolutely nothing to do with a rule change. At the 2002 Nationals I witnessed large numbers of competitors in all classes flying retract equipped aircraft. I do believe a rule still exist to fly with the gear in the down position in the entry class Sportsman formerly known as Novice. Go to NSRCA.org judging and rules section for more details.

Having owned both a retract equipped and fixed gear equipped Hydeout I can honestly say there was not an appreciable flying difference between these two aircraft. The fixed gear version made grass field flying a no brainier and was less complex to construct and maintain.

http://www.geocities.com/rcprecision/nhof1.html (fixed)
http://www.geocities.com/rcprecision/hydeoutpic2.html (retract)

Glen
http://www.geocities.com/rcprecision/pah.html
Old 01-02-2003, 04:06 PM
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AngelosCyprus
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Default Can i ask something?

ghwatson,

If you had to choose a model for competition, what would you choose fg or retracts?
Old 01-02-2003, 04:12 PM
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AngelosCyprus
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Default Can i ask something?

nice planes ghwatson.
Old 01-02-2003, 07:12 PM
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rcprecision
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Default Can i ask something?

"If you had to choose a model for competition, what would you choose fg or retracts?"

Angelo,

Fixed, easier to take-off and land from less than perfect runways. Fixed gear also adds another visual cue that can be helpful in certain attitudes.

Glen
Old 01-02-2003, 09:25 PM
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Troy Newman
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Default I agree with Geln

Fixed versus Retracts is a issue that is up to the pilot. Many people are doing the Fixed gear thing Me included. I think they are simpler and look good. But I can say this nothing gets the blood pumping like an on the deck pass (2-3ft) at full throttle gear up.....

I choose the fixed gear in my planes for easy in assembly....Not the building...but when you show up at the flying field and are putting the plane together. With plug in wings and fixed gear you don't need a stand you just set the plane on its gear and slide the wings in place. Its cake!

Also working on it in the shop is easier and it will set by its self on the table.

Weight I don't think is an issue they are about the same. Battery drain is a little issue an extra servo is an issue....but not by price just by having more work to set it up.

The wings are More efficient with those holes closed up.....and so on lots of reason to go Fixed. There are the same types of reason to go retracts. Like Crosswinds, and a clean presentation.

I think the real change over the years has been power to haul the beasts.

Back in the day of the Illusion pattern was much different than it is today. Engine limits were in place and the performance of those engines was not on the level it is today. Today the sequences are not balls out full bore slow rolls from one end of the field to the other. Today a top level F3A plane goes from being totally stalled in a 1.5 positive snap to performing a 4/8pt roll in the opposite direction with little to no pause. It can do Avalanches with the snap roll on the bottom and still climb the hill to complete the 1/2 loops after. Todays top level machines have lighter wing loadings and are required to perform 1 roll loops, 1 roll circles and 45 deg upline snaps.

The world of pattern models has changed significantly in the last 20 years. The Illusion, the Tipos, and the LA-1's that were on top back in the late 80's early 90's have been exploded by 30% increases in size and the power has gone up 2-3 times.

With todays power plants like the YS 140DZ and the OS 140 EFI I would expect a bipe to come around really soon and be flown very well at the top levels. The reason is the power to haul it, and the bipe presents a few neat properties that lend its performance to the newer schedules.

This being said the AMA classes of pattern have evolved also but are still a learning system that allows those older designs to fly the sequences well. The snaps and the maneuvers even in the Masters class are not at the demand on the plane as the F#a sequences are.....But someday maybe they will be. You can still fly that Illusion, a Kaos, or Ultra sport model in the beginning levels. And for that matter I just proved to a student of mine His ALpha Trainer will do everything in the Sportsman Pattern and only has real trouble with the vertical rolling maneuvers of the Intermediate class....

Thats my take on it.


Troy Newman
Old 01-04-2003, 09:51 AM
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AngelosCyprus
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Default Can i ask something?

Thanks Troy,

Your reply answered all my questions.

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