RogerParrett

All,

I took advantage of Tower Hobbies' Futaba 12FG fire-sale (delivered to me for $650) since I probably would not have got (read "afford") it otherwise.

I've been using a 9CAPS and really like it, and as of right now have not really "maxed" it out. I don't fly big planes, so I've not needed multiple servos on a single surface (where obviously the 12FG's grouping would come into play).

However, I've been "somewhat" constrained with the 9CAPS as to dual rates when it comes to needing to configure the plane for a specific manuver where I need lots of throw (such as stall turns) and I don't want to waste a dual rate on a single event. Triple rates are fine - but that then leaves me with only one rate remaining rate (assuming I also want to have a "normal" rate). Ditto for mixing for things such as KEs, etc.

Systems such as the 12FG, 12Z, and 14mz intrigued me with the possibility of "Conditions", which would allow me to activate different flight modes (and consequently different surface throws and mixes). With eight possible conditions and six rates / ten programmable mixes per condition, it seems like that would be a way for me to dynamically configure the plane (within reason - I'm not looking for it to fly "automatically"...lol).

So... I thought I'd ask the experts here... what advantages do these high-end machines actually offer over the mid-level TXs that I'm used to using?

Thanks... Roger

LuvBipes

My Feedback: (4)

I think you nailed it, CONDITIONS is the only real reason anyone should need more radio that a 9C class unit. I've been using the 9C for 5 years and love it. All my planes have a least 3 active mixes and sometimes I wish I could set up a CONDITION for certain flight regimes. Have fun and enjoy your 12FC.

jrpav1

My Feedback: (17)

Oddly enough you'll find that most Pattern pilots (excpet for maybe the FAI guys) try to fly without flipping switches. That does not however preclude using conditions. You'll see that not only does the 12Fg allow you to set up different conditions, but it also allows you to trigger these conditions with stick positions (you can still use a switch if you desire). Now, with that being said, unless you're flying Advanced or Masters (or FAI) you probably don't need to do any of this. Just set the plane up with the minimum amount of control surface travel required for your schedule. Since there are no snaps or spins in Sportsman or Intermediate, this shouldn't be too difficult.

There are lots of other nice features that the 12Fg has that the 9c doesn't. One of these is the "fine tuning" function. This allows you to set up a mix and use one of the rotary dials to "fine tune" the mix while you fly. This is REALLY nice. You can trim your plane very quickly this way. Just don't forget to lock in the adjustments and disable the fine tuning controls when you're happy with the setup!

John Pavlick
Team Black Magic, Tech-Aero Designs

JAS

My Feedback: (2)

I use the following on my 14:

Low rate aileron for 1 roll loops and circles, high rate for everything else (switch A, High rate up-high, Low rate down-low)
High rate elevator for the spin entry and low rate for everything else, including the actual spin (switch D, High rate up-high, Low rate down-low)
High rate rudder for the KE loop and some stall turns (if I'm in trouble), low rate for everything else (switch H, High rate away-high, Low rate close-low)
If I need to 'make a condition' I just flip the switches as I need them to be.

P-Mix's I use:
Rud/Elv
Rud/Ail
Thr/Elv
Thr/Rud

Passport1

My Feedback: (8)

This is an EZ one for me to answer because I am the same as Jason except I fly on low rate aileron only switching to hi rate for my snaps.

Oh yeah and now I am using 2 channels for rudder in order to move it one half at a time.

I really have always disliked conditions, and have never used one during a competition flight until this year. I would rather only have dual or triple rates, but with the Passport I have to use a couple conditions. Its not that one way is better then the other, its just having to remember to change every condition when making a change.

Enjoy your 12, its a sweet TX, you made a good choice.

Chip

Henning

Chip:

What’s the benefit of using a split rudder?


Henning

burtona

My Feedback: (50)

[quote]ORIGINAL: Passport1

This is an EZ one for me to answer because I am the same as Jason except I fly on low rate aileron only switching to hi rate for my snaps.

Oh yeah and now I am using 2 channels for rudder in order to move it one half at a time.

I really have always disliked conditions, and have never used one during a competition flight until this year. I would rather only have dual or triple rates, but with the Passport I have to use a couple conditions. Its not that one way is better then the other, its just having to remember to change every condition when making a change.

Enjoy your 12, its a sweet TX, you made a good choice.

Chip





If you are like me, you will find that remembering which switch/condition to use and when will get more difficult as you get older!

toddblose

My Feedback: (10)

Henning,


Here is Chip's answer from the Pass-Port build we did

flyncajun

Hummm,,My new Airplane has split Ailerons
I hope it works
Bryan

Henning

Thanks!

bwick

I've loved my 14mz since the minute I got it, and every year I learn something new about its capabilities.

With the Aries I have one normal "flying rate" that i use for everything but snaps and spin entries, I have a seperate condition for snaps, and a high elevator rate for spin entries.

Also the pretty standard Thr/Rud, Thr/Ele mixes. Don't believe I'm using any knife edge mix right now though, which is a product of how it's physically adjusted.

The main advantage of the better radios though isn't that you can have thirty different mixes. If the airplane is setup correctly your mixes will be minimal. For me the advantage is the superior gimbals (which DO make a difference), and the sheer flexibilty of the radio. Assign anything to any switch or stick you've got 3 dials, 4 sliders, crapload of switches to setup the plane however you'd like. I use the dials for finetuning mixes, the slider for throttle trim, etc. Also, it's nice to know that if I WANTED to have the right aileron go up ten degrees when the rudder was deflected halfway and my throttle was at idle I COULD. Not that I normally would, but that kind of stuff can be fun to experiment with occasionally you get favorable results.

Not to mention that are pretty regular updates which add features and tweak things to improve the radio indefinitely.

You can't beat a 12/14 from Futaba - they're great radios.

Derek.Koopowitz

For the price that the 12FG is selling for now you can't go wrong - regardless of whether you will use all the functionality in the radio or not. A lot has been written of what some pretty darn good pilots are using with regard to their radios - it works for them.

I know what works for me and I stay away from flipping a lot of switches as well. I have a high rate elevator for spin entries (but not for the spin itself) and I have a snap condition which is programmed to come on with the sticks (not with a switch) - full aileron deflection and full elevator deflection enables the snap condition and it increases aileron throw, elevator throw and reduces rudder throw. I do have another condition which I actually flip a switch for and that is for the roller maneuvers (loops vertical and horizontal). I also fly with a dual rate rudder which is activated on the the throttle and this is used for stall turns only - in other words when I'm at low throttle (the bottom several clicks of throttle) I will get full rudder deflection - all the rest of the throttle movement I have enough rudder to maintain knife edge flight (ok actually a little more than KE flight).

I think Brett pretty much nailed the reason for the high end radios though - better equipment such as gimbals, overall feel, functionality, reliability, etc.

Nickolas

Good info by people who know their stuff, thank you!

I just would like to ask about the throttle to rudder mix. When the throttle is at idle do you mix with right rudder? Is that what you mean?

Thanks in advance,
Nikos

bwick

Depends on the plane, setup, etc. as to the amount in the mix, but it would be left rudder at idle or right rudder on power.

jim woodward

I have a 14 MZ in 2.4 FASST. I just bought a 12FG in 2.4 FASST. There is a software update now that lets you convert the 14 MZ, 12MZ, and 12FG models from transmitter to transmitter. This will be my 2009 pattern and IMAC setups.
Thanks,
Jim W.

Gregg G

My Feedback: (7)

Jim,
Does the 12 have the same gimbal assemblies as the 14?
Thanks,
Greg Grigsby

Robbidos

My Feedback: (20)

The 12Z and 14MZ share the same gimbals. The 12FG uses the same gimbals as the 9c/10c per Bax on the 14MZ forums.

KeithB

My Feedback: (1)

Interesting thread. I’ve just defected from JR to the Futaba 14MZ (after about 7 years as a JR guy). Though the JR 12x is very nice, I made my decision based on the incredible flexibility of the 14mz, I’m pretty impressed so far.

I’m curious if you guys with the 14mz are flying with the standard gimble springs or if you’ve switched to heavy duty springs. It seems that the spring tension will not dial in as stiff as the standard springs on my 10X. That being said, I’m a bit worried that the heavy duty springs may be too stiff.

Keith B

Robbidos

My Feedback: (20)

Well, I will let you know in a couple of days. I had Hobbico put the heavy duty springs in. I can tell you the heavy duty springs from Futaba are not as strong as the heavy duty springs that Radio South puts in.

Magna

Hi John

Can you describe more on how this work? The instruction confused me like crazy on the 12FGH. But let me see if I get it right. Say I want to mix my Rudder to Elev for my KE. Without this function I have to do multiple round of fine tuning to get the correct mix rate. With the fine tuning say set to RS (right slider) on LIN Mode, I can adjust the RS while KE is in progress or on the fly to determine the right amount of rate %.

And once I got it dial in, how do I set or lock in the adjustment?

jrpav1

My Feedback: (17)

OK here's what I do: Look at your servo screen and move the sticks to their extremes. You'll see the amount of servo travel for all of your servos there. Fly the plane and "fine tune" the mixes until you're happy. Now look at the servo screen again. Using your rudder - elevator mix as an example, look at (and remember) the numbers for elevator travel when you move the rudder stick to each side (full deflection). You should see it change without touching the elevator stick if your mix is active. Now go back into the mix setup, disable the fine tuning and re-adjust your mix so that with the fine tuning disabled, you end up with the same numbers as you had with it enabled. If there's an easier way to do this, let me know. It would be really cool if you could just press a button and have the fine tuning values applied to the original mix but I see where that could get people in trouble. I've only used the fine tuning feature a few times but it has been VERY helpful and even with the method that I use, it saves a lot of time. Remember, for a rudder - elevator mix, the elevator travel is based on a percentage of rudder travel. If you change the rudder travel somehow (dual-rates) you will see a different amount of elevator travel when you move the rudder stick. Don't worry. It should still work out to the same percentage as you have in the mix.

John Pavlick
Team Black Magic, Tech-Aero Designs

Magna

John

Thanks for the tips. Let me try and see how it goes!

Aresti-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

I do believe JR radios will definitely be much better in the future. Take a close look at this picture of JR offices in Japan during Italian F3A pilot and designer Sebastiano Silvestri's visit (http://www.sebart.it/img-photogaller...isit/index.htm)

There is F 12Z in the background......[>:]