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Phoenix Accipiter, anyone ?

Old 10-26-2009, 06:24 AM
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gauravag
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Default Phoenix Accipiter, anyone ?

Hello everyone,
I have been building and flying .46 - .90 size planes for the last few years, and seem to be addicted to Pattern flying - Slow, graceful and precise.
I wanted to own a good pattern ship, that i could use to learn and practice flying. In my country I do not seem to have access to CA models pattern airplanes, and the only one that seems to be available is Phoeenix models Accipiter .90 size . Though i searched the internet and found only a couple of reviews ( both good ) , i was wondering if anyone could share first hand information if this would be a good pattern airplane, and is designed properly without any unwanted characteristics. I plan on powering it with a Saito 1.25 4 stroke, and digital servos all around.
Thanks so much everyone !
Gaurav
Old 10-26-2009, 07:20 AM
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guille2006
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Default RE: Phoenix Accipiter, anyone ?

Just an AWESOME airplane!!!!!!
A supertigre 90 is just enough for it; WITH an OS 1.20 4st is GREAT!!!!!
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Old 10-26-2009, 07:23 AM
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Default RE: Phoenix Accipiter, anyone ?


ORIGINAL: guille2006

Just an AWESOME airplane!!!!!!
A supertigre 90 is just enough for it; WITH an OS 1.20 4st is GREAT!!!!!
Thats great ! i read your post about this in another topic on this forum here. How are the flying characteristics ? Knife edges ok ? Is the wing incidence and thrust lines correctly set up ?
How is the build quality of this too ?

Thanks for sharing your experiences.
Old 10-26-2009, 07:37 AM
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Default RE: Phoenix Accipiter, anyone ?

Hey Gauravag;
Flying is great; you just have to work a little bit on diff. aileron and roll-yaw coupling; always with radio mixings. Just put the CoG where the plan say and will be OK for almost any maneuver. Low speed is gentle and lands very very well with high angle of attack.
Woods quality of mine is great; also accesories except for the landing gear (poor alluminium, i replaced with carbon fiber). I replaced also the wheels.
I don't even like the wing attachment nor the canopy attachment; but they're OK, It's just I don't like. I will chance them as soon as I can...
What engine are you planning to use on it? What radio?
Here is a video of a TO with teh Supertigre 90; no videos available yet with the OS 1.20. Servos on mine are: S3003 and hitec HS-695MG for rudder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixi4bOHUl-M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwClEQgyUS8
Cheers!!!
Old 10-26-2009, 07:44 AM
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Default RE: Phoenix Accipiter, anyone ?


ORIGINAL: guille2006

Hey Gauravag;
Flying is great; you just have to work a little bit on diff. aileron and roll-yaw coupling; always with radio mixings. Just put the CoG where the plan say and will be OK for almost any maneuver. Low speed is gentle and lands very very well with high angle of attack.
Woods quality of mine is great; also accesories except for the landing gear (poor alluminium, i replaced with carbon fiber). I replaced also the wheels.
I don't even like the wing attachment nor the canopy attachment; but they're OK, It's just I don't like. I will chance them as soon as I can...
What engine are you planning to use on it? What radio?
Here is a video of a TO with teh Supertigre 90; no videos available yet with the OS 1.20. Servos on mine are: S3003 and hitec HS-695MG for rudder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixi4bOHUl-M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwClEQgyUS8
Cheers!!!
I plan on using a Saito 125 ( same weight as a OS 91 FX ) . I have a Futaba 10C, so mixes should not be an issue. What servos have you got on yours ? I am thinkning Futaba Digital S3050 on the rudder and Digital standard on other controls. Did you need any weights to balance this ? Oh did you put a OS 1.20 AX on it ? I have one of these lying around, and if they can fit, it would be awesome ! .
Let me know if the weight or fitting in the cowl would be a problem with this engine.
I wish they made the canopy transparent though.
Old 10-26-2009, 07:49 AM
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Default RE: Phoenix Accipiter, anyone ?

"...le yet with the OS 1.20. Servos on mine are: S3003 and hitec HS-695MG for rudder...."

The OS is a 4 Stroke with pump spining a APC 15x8.

With the Supertigre I needed 220 grams on the nose; now I need no ballast to compansate (seems that the plane was designed around this engine, even the manual shows one).

CHeers!!!
Old 10-26-2009, 07:58 AM
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Default RE: Phoenix Accipiter, anyone ?

Hmm. That is interesting.
i am looking at Saito 1.25 : http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...rodID=SAIE125A
and OS 1.20 : http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXBY65&P=ML

OS is a 10 ounces heaver !!! but is pumped . Is this the one you are using ?

I would prefer a lighter engine, but if i would need to balance it with nose weight, i might rather get a heavier engine.

How has the power been with the 1.20 ? adequate ? or more than needed ? Perhaps I might get the Saito 1.50 on this then ..

Thanks so much for replying. I cannot tell you how happy I am to talk with someone who has owned and flown this model before!
Old 10-26-2009, 08:08 AM
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Default RE: Phoenix Accipiter, anyone ?

Well Gauravag; I think that both engines are MORE MORE MORE MORE than enough for tha plane. just look at the props:
Supertigre 90= 12x10 @ 10500 rpm (and was barely good for flying pattern)
OS 1.20 four stroke with pump = 15x8 @ 8300 rpm (unlimited vertical performance at 80% of power)
What a difference; isn't?
If I were you, I'd get the OS: it's cheaper, uses cheaper fuel (tolerates 5% nitro, Saito doesn't) and it's stingy while running.
Whatever, is up to you which one to use...
CHeers!
Guille
Old 10-26-2009, 08:10 AM
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Default RE: Phoenix Accipiter, anyone ?

I forgot to mention that there is an animal that put a Saito 170 on it; nice for stunt aerobatics but exagated for others. The vid is in youtube... I think is toooooo much!!!!!!!!!
Old 10-26-2009, 08:13 AM
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Default RE: Phoenix Accipiter, anyone ?

Hmm. I use 0% nitro fuel, so usually get less power than others do. Still i think I would get an OS 1.20 pumped. Getting it now for $300 and think its a deal.
Are the servos mounted in the tail ? How is the covering quality.
Guess too many questions. I just ordered it !!!! should be with me in a week Cooooool !
Old 10-26-2009, 08:31 AM
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Default RE: Phoenix Accipiter, anyone ?

Well; 0% Nitro is not good for 4 Strokers; I use 10% on mine. And yes; servos for elevator are in the tail; rudder below the cockpit (right next the throttle).

I'm glad you've already bought it!!! Enjoy it!!!!
Old 10-26-2009, 08:36 AM
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Default RE: Phoenix Accipiter, anyone ?

Just saw your videos. Very nice. Landings do look a little fast though.. I hope this will slow down for some nice mains-first slow landings that look perfect..
WIll keep you posted on how this comes along !
Old 10-26-2009, 08:55 AM
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Default RE: Phoenix Accipiter, anyone ?

Well, those were the first two landings, so I didn't know that plane yet and came in the safe way. Now I come so slow that I almost can hit a coin !!!!
Old 10-26-2009, 09:08 AM
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Default RE: Phoenix Accipiter, anyone ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCkCJ...eature=related
Old 10-26-2009, 03:50 PM
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Default RE: Phoenix Accipiter, anyone ?

guille2006:

Have you tried a bigger propeller and/ or a tuned muffler on you ST? I run APC 15x8 on my ST90 with Jamara tuned muffler. I have also used Hatori #700 pipe in the past but switched to Jamara to get a better midrange and lower idle. The ST 90 pulls my Spigas 90 at 3600 grams through F-11.
ST 90 with the Hatori #700 and APC15x8 @ 9500 rpm.

Spigas 90 in action:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uGXvYtjmAM

Regards,
Henning
Old 10-27-2009, 07:41 AM
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Default RE: Phoenix Accipiter, anyone ?

Guille,
My ARF is on the way, though instead of buying the OS 120 FS engine, I am now thinking of buying a Saito FG-20 Gas engine. On the face of it, it seems to have the same weight as the OS 120, and i would have the added benefits and low cost of operations of a gas engine.
Do you think this would be enough power for it ? also, i am concerned that there may not be enough space to mount this engine, since the carb is behind the engine..
Let me know what you think.
Thanks !
Gaurav
Old 10-27-2009, 07:50 AM
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Default RE: Phoenix Accipiter, anyone ?

I think that power is not an issue... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLoPg...eature=related
May be space? Make a comparison with the OS 120; in mine the space is just for him, specially in lenght. If the saito is longer, may be there is a problem. Shorter is OK. Just look at some 2D design in the web...
Old 10-27-2009, 08:46 AM
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Default RE: Phoenix Accipiter, anyone ?

Come on Henning!!! It's not a supertigre!!!! Is a ROCKET!!!!! HAHAHA!!!!!!!!!

You are the prove that STG exhaust is really a power killer. Once I recovered about 1.000 rpm on a 60 by just removing it...

How does your plane weitgh? flyies really well!!!!




Old 10-28-2009, 02:54 AM
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Default RE: Phoenix Accipiter, anyone ?

guille2006:

It’s 3,6 kg. The ST mufflers are just crap. Once the ST got to “breathe” properly they are great engines. I have a OS 91 FX as well. The power output of those to engines are identical. What I like about the ST is the carburetor. Most people hate it but once you have learned to adjust the midrange they are in my opinion very good engines. To obtain the same throttle response with the OS I have to us a twin plug head.

Henning
Old 10-28-2009, 03:09 AM
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Default RE: Phoenix Accipiter, anyone ?


ORIGINAL: Henning

...To obtain the same throttle response with the OS I have to us a twin plug head.

Henning

...So you made a hole in the head; Where (front, rear)? Can you upload a pic?
Guille
Old 10-28-2009, 03:29 AM
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Default RE: Phoenix Accipiter, anyone ?

Henning,
With A ST 90, did you need to add nose weight to balance it ? ST 90 is 27oz( w/muffler ) and from what i read so far, this plane needs a heavier engine. I like to keep my planes a little tail heavy, but of course within limits.
3.6 is one of the best weights I heard so far...

Re: the twin plug on the OS 91FX, WOW ! I would like to see a picture too !!!

-Gaurav
Old 10-28-2009, 03:44 AM
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Default RE: Phoenix Accipiter, anyone ?

As far as I understood the double plug is in the STG. In the other hand, 3M mintor engines widely used the double plug solution... see pics:

http://www.tates.com.au/images/3m1.jpg
http://www.aeroslave.com/images/140HeadTop.png

I bet my trousers that this is not the only modification Henning made to his STG 90, Am I nude now?!?!?

Cheers
Old 10-28-2009, 04:37 AM
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Default RE: Phoenix Accipiter, anyone ?

No, the dual plug head is for the OS. I used a dual plug head made by Bell Wood for OS 91 heli engines. I had to machine of some of the cooling fins to reduce cooling.

Picture of my OS 91 with the dual plug head.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/aerowold/514578780/


You can also modify the stock head you self.
http://www.ofremmi.info/HowTo/Dual-p..._to_a_dual.htm


Gaurav: The plane was never used with the stock muffler so I don’t’ know about the nose weight. Initially the plane was below 3,5 kg. The prototype of the Spigas 90 was 3,2 kg! Personally I don’t like tail heavy plans. I don’t think tail heavy plans track very well.

Henning
Old 10-29-2009, 05:54 AM
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Default RE: Phoenix Accipiter, anyone ?

Hey Gaurav;
Here below you'll see how the OS120 comes mounted on the accipiter. As you can see I had to make an extension for the exhaust in order to use the original muffler; see also its design. I made it in alluminium alloy AL-7075.
Hope it helps...

PS: sorry if a forgot to mention that before... I just forgot...
Old 10-29-2009, 05:56 AM
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Default RE: Phoenix Accipiter, anyone ?

Hey Gaurav;
Here below you'll see how the OS120 comes mounted on the accipiter. As you can see I had to make an extension for the exhaust in order to use the original muffler; see also its design. I made it in alluminium alloy AL-7075.
Hope it helps...

PS: sorry if a forgot to mention that before... I just forgot...
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