D-4 Championships
 

Mark Atwood (contest co-CD) mentioned today that we will be flying either 6 rounds of P-13 (best 4 of 6) or 4 rounds of P-13 (best 3 of 4) and 2 rounds of F-13 (best 1 of 2) on Sunday. For those interested in flying the Hebron, KY contest what are your thoughts or comments? Any comments or suggestions for those pilots in other classes that would judge these flights would also be appreciated.

Thanks,

Ray

RE: D-4 Championships
 

Hi Ray, could you post a website or the sequences/maneuver descriptions/aresti, this would really help everyone save time trying to find them. Also everyone interested in the contest can see what the sequences are and this should help in judging the new sequences.

Dave Snow

RE: D-4 Championships
 

Dave,

Here you go.

P-13.01 Clover Leaf with horizontal roll
From upright, pull through a ¼ loop into a vertical upline, push through a ¾ loop into a horizontal line, perform a roll, push through a ¾ loop into a vertical downline, pull through a ¼ loop, exit upright.

P-13.02 Stall Turn with ¼ roll up, ¼ roll down
From upright, pull through a ¼ loop into a vertical upline, perform a ¼ roll, perform a stall turn into a vertical downline, perform a ¼ roll push through a 1/4 loop, exit inverted.

P-13.03 Roll Combination with three ¼ rolls, three ¼ rolls in opposite direction
From inverted, perform three ¼ rolls followed by another three ¼ rolls in opposite direction, exit inverted.

P-13.04 Half Square Loop with two ½ rolls in opposite directions
From inverted, push through a ¼ loop into a vertical upline, perform two ½ rolls in opposite directions, push through a ¼ loop, exit upright.

P-13.05 Triangle with roll in each line
From upright, push through a 1/8 loop into a 45° downline, perform a roll, push through a 3/8 loop into a horizontal line, perform a roll, push through a 3/8 loop into a 45° upline, perform a roll, push through a 1/8 loop, exit upright.

P-13.06 Reverse Immelman with roll
From upright, perform a roll and immediately push through a ½ loop, exit inverted.

P-13.07 45° Upline with 1 ½ snap roll
From inverted, push through a 1/8 loop into a 45° upline, perfrom 1 ½ snap roll, push through a 1/8 loop, exit upright.

P-13.08 Reverse Top Hat with ¼ roll down, ¾ roll up
From upright, push through a ¼ loop into a vertical downline, perform a ¼ roll, push through a ¼ loop into a horizontal line, push through a 1/4 loop into a vertical upline, perform a ¾ roll, push through a ¼ loop, exit upright.

P-13.09 Spin with 2 ½ turns, 2 ½ turns in opposite direction
From upright, perform a spin with 2 ½ turns immediately followed by another 2 ½ turns in the opposite direction, perfrom a vertical downline, pull through a ¼ loop, exit upright.

P-13.10 Pull-Push-Pull Humpty-Bump with ¼ roll up, ¼ roll down (Option: Two ¼ rolls up)
From upright, pull through a ¼ loop into a vertical upline, perform a ¼ roll, push through a 1/2 loop into a vertical downline, perform a ¼ roll, pull through a ¼ loop, exit upright.
Option: From upright, pull through a ¼ loop into a vertical upline, perform two ¼ rolls, push through a 1/2 loop into a vertical downline, pull through a ¼ loop, exit upright.

P-13.11 Cuban 8 with integrated rolls on top 90° of both part loops.
From upright, pull through a 5/8 loop into a 45° downline while performing an integrated roll in the top 90° of the loop, push through a ¾ loop into another 45° downline while performing a roll in the top 90° of the loop, pull through a 1/8 loop, exit upright.

P-13.12 ½ Loop
From upright, pull through a 1/2 loop, exit inverted.

P-13.13 Square Loop with ½ roll in each line
From inverted, pull through a ¼ loop into a vertical downline, perform a ½ roll, push through a ¼ loop into a horizontal line, perform a ½ roll, pull through a ¼ loop into a vertical upline, perform a ½ roll, push through a ¼ loop into a horizontal line, perform a ½ roll , exit inverted.

P-13.14 Figure 9
From inverted, push through a ¾ loop into a vertical downline, perform two ½ rolls, pull through a ¼ loop, exit upright.

P-13.15 Roll Combination with ½ roll, roll, ½ rolls in opposite directions
From upright, perform a ½ roll followed by a roll in opposite direction, followed by another ½ roll in again opposite direction, exit upright.

P-13.16 ½ Loop on Corner with ¼ roll, ¼ knife-edge loop, ¼ roll from upright pull through a 1/8 loop into a 45° upline, perform ¼ roll, perform ¼ knife-egde loop into a 4 45° upline, perform ¼ roll, pull through a 1/8 loop, exit inverted.

P-13.17 Figure Z with four 1/8 rolls
From inverted, pull through a 3/8 loop into a 45° downline, perform four 1/8 rolls, pull through a 3/8 loop, exit upright.

One problem with flying F-13, is that I have seen a couple variations to the sequence including the latest PACSS version which is different than the attached Aresti. Even this Aresti appears to have at least one problem, it seems like it is showing 1/2 snaps opposite for figure 7, but I believe these are full snaps (+ or-) in opposite directions, also figure 17 shows an upright exit, but with an inverted entry, 1/2 roll, opposite full roll, opposite 1/2 roll, it should be an inverted exit. Also for figure 9, a 45 degree upline with a full roll seems a little easy for an F sequence center figure, should this be some kind of point roll? Any help with the official F-13 sequence is appreciated.

Ray

RE: D-4 Championships
 

For #7, can one snap be positive and the other negative?

Colin

RE: D-4 Championships
 

yes.

Regards,

RE: D-4 Championships
 

On F-13, maneuver number 3, the loop with 1/4 rolls. Are they 1/4 rolls or half rolls. The judging power point that was circulated, shows 1/2 rolls. I'm just curious as to which is correct?

Arch

RE: D-4 Championships
 

Arch,

Judging by the "CIAM Minutes" sequence it is with Half rolls .

Also with the Clown Dance the Power point shows the spin from upright. It is written correctly on the PP but it is drawn incorrectly.

Chris

RE: D-4 Championships
 

Chris,

An upright spin entry does not make sense, do you exit the preceeding inverted top hat with an inverted exit to enter the spin upright after performing a half outside loop? If it is an upright spin entry with 2-1/2 spins followed by 2 of 4 point roll, that would also be an inverted exit which is different than the diagram?

Thanks,

Ray

RE: D-4 Championships
 

I still think they just go to a local elementary school and hand some kindergarten kids some crayons and have them draw shapes. Then they let the kids name them and submit them as sequences.

Arch

RE: D-4 Championships
 

Ray,

Sorry I didnt explain myself enough. :D The Clown dance starts from upright. Pull the half loop to inverted then start the spin. The power point shows the plane entering the Clown Dance in the upright position ( Correct ) but the entry for the spin is upright as well. ( wrong ).

Chris

RE: D-4 Championships
 

Chris,

There are a couple errors on this slide, one is you cannot enter the maneuver upright and do a half loop and still be upright. The second is from upright entry after 2-1/2 spins followed by 2 of 4, would make it an inverted exit rather than upright as drawn.

I believe it is supposed to be drawn as an upright entry, half loop to inverted, 2-1/2 spins followed by 2 of 4 point roll (in the same direction) then upright exit. That would make the two end box maneuver descriptions on either side also work.

Thanks,

Ray

RE: D-4 Championships
 

Ray,

That's what I'm saying. It is wrong. Not saying the slide is right.

Clown dance entry on the slide is correct.
Clown dance SPIN entry on the slide is wrong.

Thanks,
Chris

RE: D-4 Championships
 

I don't really feel qualified to judge FAI, but I was asked to and did in last contest. If I had to judge again it would probably be a more accurate representation if it was P again. Don't think that should decide it so didn't vote yet, and hopefully I won't have to judge FAI again, but of course I will if needed.

RE: D-4 Championships
 

I have looked at the PPT that Arch sent for F-13, and it is different than the Aresti I posted, but is the same as the PACSS which is useful because there are K-Factors associated with the maneuvers. I found a link to the Powerpoint version, just invert the plane on the top of the Cloud Dance maneuver and otherwise it looks pretty good.

www.mmfk.info/flyprogrammer/F13engl.ppt

Ray

RE: D-4 Championships
 

The horizontal 8 roller is also different from the aresti.  The powerpoint shows an outside and inside roll, and specifies that the rolls are in the same direction.  The aresti shows both rollers to the outside which would also necessitate rolls in opposite directions. 

On a separate note, can we get some input on what the FAI folks want to fly at the D4 champs?   As Ray stated, I think the options are 4P's and 2 F's, or 6 P's.   It's simply a matter of whether or not people will have time to prepare for the F pattern to a point where they're comfortable.

That, and we need a definitive source for the correct pattern!!

RE: D-4 Championships
 

Are we sure the loop is 1/2 rolls?  All the aresti drawings I've found show it as quarter rolls along with the accompanying descriptions.  Only the powerpoint seems to have it listed with half rolls.  Does anyone have the link to the CIAM site that shows it with 1/2 rolls? 

RE: D-4 Championships
 

Hi Mark,

Are you guys flying P13 already?

Cheers,
Jason.

RE: D-4 Championships
 

We're trying...  With the Nationals being over, P-11 feels like a dead sequence.  So we're trying to get a jump on the new patterns.  We flew P-13 this past weekend at the Ohio Valley contest and while it was essentially an unknown for all the competitors (and judges alike), we had fun learning and working on the sequence.  F-13...not so much. 

RE: D-4 Championships
 

Mark
I vote for 6 rounds of P13.
Bill

RE: D-4 Championships
 

Fair enough. We don't start until January 1 2012.

Cheers,
Jason.

RE: D-4 Championships
 

Jason, bare in mind that in this area, we only have about another month of decent flying weather before we have to take a 6 month snow hiatus.  So any jump we can get on the spring schedule is needed. 

RE: D-4 Championships
 

Ah... Now it makes sense. Sometimes us Aussies take our great year round weather for granted...

So what do you think of the Spark compared to the Black Magic?

Cheers,
Jason.

RE: D-4 Championships
 

For the F13.....from the FAI site....
http://www.fai.org/aeromodelling/meetings/201104

go to •Plenary Minutes Annexes 7-8 (3.2 MB)

then open Annex 7a - F3A_5.1.13_F3_Aero_S-C_11_Issue_2.doc

I believe the schedule is flyable as written, with one exception.....F.13.15 should say push through 5/8 loop for the first radius...maneuver is a triangle with the point on top.

And...the written says 1/2 rolls for F.13.03

Regards,

RE: D-4 Championships
 

Hi Dave, I just put this PDF togather based on the website you gave but have not reviewed it for accuarcy, hope this helps.

Dave Snow

RE: D-4 Championships
 

With the vote split, probably the best decision is to have 6 rounds of P-13. This is a new sequence, so spending a few weeks perfecting it is not unreasonable.

On the trip last night to pick up a new plane, Bob Pannell (the other co-CD) mentioned that once they flew one round of an unknown pattern which he said was pretty fun. He would design the sequence with the same K-factor total as the P-13 sequence and keep it top secret until the contest, kind of like IMAC. For scoring, you would keep the best 3 of 5 plus the unknown. Just throwing that out there for comment as he mentioned it.

Thanks,

Ray