NATS 2012
 

Hello everyone. I trust that everyone is anxiously awaiting a shiny new pattern plane or gizmo arriving at Christmas this year. I realize we are a ways away from the NATS 2012, but its never too early to start communicating. The official entry forms are now online at the following link. http://www.modelaircraft.org/events/...ntryforms.aspx Entry forms will still be mailed to those who attended last year, but for anyone wishing to get a jump on things and get registered now you can download the entry form and send them in. I plan to start putting out monthly status updates after the first of the year so that everyone knows where things stand. I have a great group of people who have volunteered to help and everything is coming together very nicely.

A few things worth mentionings are that the banquet will be held the night before the finals this year. It will be held on site at the banquet area at the museum and will be catered. Final catering details have not been finalized yet. At this banquet, the Masters and FAI finalists will be announced and flight orders drawn. This is possible this year due to the rule change that there will no longer be an unknowns meeting per the new FAI rules. The unknowns will be created by the Event Director and handed out to the finalists at the banquet. This will also allow the Intermediate and Advanced winners to be announced in front of the entire group.

Another item to be aware of is that EVERY airplane will be weighed this year. We are still finalizing plans on the most efficient way to do this, but be aware that every airplane will be weighed this year and it will be after a flight. Ideally they will be weighed after every flight, but at least once a day is my goal. We learned a lot from how it was done at the worlds last year and this should not be difficult to do as we have intermediate pilots who no longer work transmitter impound that we can use as well as some other people involved. As I said, the plans are not finalized, but we are working very hard on them and after the first of the year I will let everyone know what we have come up with as a final plan. My goal is to stay in contact with everyone so that no one can say they didn't know.

One other important piece of information are the cut off deadlines. They will be strictly enforced. They have been moved slightly closer to the actual start of the NATS, but no entries after the final deadline will be accepted. No exceptions. One change though is that up until the final cut off we will be able to issue refunds. We will not be able to issue the refund from the AMA part of the entry fee, but the NSRCA part of the fee will be refunded.

Looking forward to seeing everyone in Muncie in July.

Please limit discussions to useful information regarding this thread. Also, if you have a complaint on how things have been done, I am more than open to listen, but please have ideas on how to correct these issues.

Archie Stafford
2012 Pattern NATS ED

RE: NATS 2012
 

Nice changes Arch.
Are there any sound testing plans?

RE: NATS 2012
 

Those are great news Arch I now you will do an outstanding job

Victor Diaz

RE: NATS 2012
 

Sound check will be performed for the Masters and FAI finalists. Intermediate and Advanced will not have sound check. I think it is a possibility in the future, but I think this year I want to just add the weight checks and see how that goes. Then we can go from there.

Arch

RE: NATS 2012
 

Do people ever participate for just part of the event? I want to fly at NATS but don't know if I can afford to burn that much vacation time. What would be the best procedure?

RE: NATS 2012
 

Joe,

There is nothing stopping someone from flying certain days. You could theoretically win Intermediate or Advanced after just two days of flying as you would have 4 rounds done and we keep the best 4 out of 6 for those two classes. Intermediate and Advanced will be flying Monday - Wednesday with winners announced Wednesday night. Thursday will be the finals day for Masters and FAI. You would need to let the ED know ahead of time if wanted to do this as people who skip work assignments, judging, or weighing (for intermediate pilots) have their high score dropped. With you living in Cincy, you could easily be there from the pilots meeting Sunday evening through Wednesday and get all of your flights in, and go home Wednesday night.

Arch

RE: NATS 2012
 

Hey there Arch!
All good changes. I was wondering if you would be able to set up courtesy sound checks at any time before the finals? I have no reliable way at home to check it and I'd hate to be caught off guard if I made it to the finals.

Thanks!

Looking forward to 2012~

Joe

RE: NATS 2012
 

Thanks Arch, I'll start planning...

RE: NATS 2012
 

Joe,

That is something we are looking at, and I honestly believe that we need to do this if we are going to enforce sound in the finals. I don't see a reason why we shouldn't be able to do this. I have actually had quite a few people step forward and volunteer for courtesy weighing and such, so I think we will have the man power. Most likely we would set this up for just a few hours prior to the pilots meeting, so that anyone needing checked can do it then rather than have guys sit at the site all day waiting on people to show up.

Arch

RE: NATS 2012
 

Just a reminder what the rules say,

At any contest that will enforce the noise limits, all contestants must have access to the equipment to check their models prior to the start of the event. If this cannot be done then the noise limits will not be enforced.

I think the banquet scheduling is a bad idea. The F3A pilots are going to want to get the finals pilots announced and the unknowns handed out as early as possible so they can begin to work on them. Next year is a Team Selection year so everyone who makes the Finals will want to do their best.

I also feel that the deadlines for entry are too early. Why does pre-entry have to end one month prior to the start of the contest? Also, why does late entry have to end two weeks before the contest starts? And why would you not accept the entry of anyone that wants to fly in the Nats?

Weighing every model is simply not necessary and is enforcing a rule on everyone that we all know is pretty much ignored at every other contest but the Nats. Why are you worried about the weight of the 20th place model? Who would care?

What did the NSRCA BOD say when this plan was presented to them? Doesn't the NSRCA have something to say about the running of the Nats?

RE: NATS 2012
 

Tony,

As you can imagine I have heard these objections and while I certainly understand and appreciate them, I disagree. I feel that this is a National Championship and as such the rules should be followed as closely to the letter as possible. This also makes it much easier regarding protests and such. Regardless of the opinions on the weight rule, it is in the rule book and I want to follow the rulebook as closely as possible. I believe in the past that the biggest obstacle for enforcing this rule was manpower. I don’t believe this is the case any longer as we now have the Intermediate pilots who can do this job, since they are not judging. My goal this year is to run this contest as close to the rulebook as possible with as few exceptions as possible. I don’t expect everyone to agree with every decision, but I believe that as it is the National Championships, it is the one contest a year that as many rules as possible can be followed. I plan to publish any deviations from the rules, if there are any after the first of the year once I have all of the logistics worked out. It is possible that enforcing the rules may change the mind of enough people that they decide to remove the weight rule, then so be it, but as long as it is a current rule I plan to enforce it. Other disciplines have issues like this as well such as the builder of the model rule in control line stunt. Yet, at the NATS it is enforced.

For the Banquet, this is the way it was done years ago prior to the unknowns meeting and it works well. It allows the other classes to feel a part of the event. The unknowns meeting usually ran fairly late, so the pilots will still get the unknowns earlier than they would have in previous years. Also, if the unknowns are handed out too early, the possibility does exist that pilots could go to a site and practice them. This will ensure that does not happen, but will still give them plenty of time to review them.

Regarding late entries. The dates are now set in stone and will not be changed. These were established at the NATS planning meeting in September. The initial entry date has been pushed up until 1 month prior to the start of the contest and the late deadline is set at 2 weeks prior. After discussing this with Rusty, Dave Guerin, and others this makes the most sense from a logistical stand point for the ED and other who are trying to get things setup. The AMA bases the number of plaques they will supply on the number of entries as of a certain date (usually 1 month out). The NSRCA could pay for additional plaques if they wanted, but I don’t see the reason in this additional cost. I believe that while a few may have schedule changes, the vast majority of pilots have the dates reserved well in advance. Some may even have already reserved their rooms. Setting a hard cut off of two weeks out in my opinion is not an unreasonable and gives the ED and others a much better chance of planning for things such as the banquet, pilots meeting BBQ, flight order and others. I’m sure there will be a few who may still be no shows, but it is much easier to remove a few pilots than it is to add more in. What I learned from my discussions from previous ED’s and people from other disciplines is that the later you allow people to register, the more that will register late. When people are spending several hundred, if not thousands of dollars to attend the NATS, a $100.00 or more late fee will not deter them from registering late. In 2008 when I was unable to attend the NATS due to being stuck in Iraq for work I had already registered for the NATS. I considered my entry fee just a donation to the AMA/NSRCA and realized that I would save much more than that by not attending. My goal is to have as much planning and such done before I leave for Muncie, so that when I arrive, as much preparation work is complete, so I can focus 100% on running the event rather than trying to find places for a few late entries. I am sure that there will be growing pains and headaches once I get to Muncie, but any that can be eliminated ahead of time will do nothing but benefit the event as a whole. From talking to other ED’s from various disciplines, one of their biggest headaches is the number of people that register late. Most would love to have a policy in place as the pattern NATS have done for setting late deadlines, but they have faced many obstacles getting their SIG’s to agree to this. As it has been past policy in pattern, it is easy to leave it alone. It would also be easy to eliminate, but from these discussions I do not believe it is the right thing to do. There were several things I learned at the NATS planning meeting and this was one of them. The key this year is that these deadlines will be strictly enforced. I would encourage those who are on the fence about attending to go ahead and register during the early period and then we can refund the NSRCA part of your funds back to you up to 2 weeks prior to the start of the event.

Archie

RE: NATS 2012
 

I was still a member of the BOD when the decision was made to relax the entry deadlines. It seems you have gone completely against what the NSRCA BOD decided and instead have made the decision to be very strict about the entry deadline. That is why I asked what did the NSRCA BOD say when all of these plans were presented to them? Has the NSRCA BOD agreed to refund their part of the entry fee? Has the NSRCA BOD agreed to the plans for the banquet, since the NSRCA would have to pay for it if there is a loss?

I am totally against waiting for the banquet to announce who will be in the Masters and F3A finals. It is not fair to the contestants to make them wait.

Do you intend to follow the qualifying procedures as outlined in the rulebook for Masters? Because I have not talked to a single Masters pilot, yourself included, who agrees with that process.

As to weighing all the models, it is unnecessary and is likely to reduce the number of entrants. Weigh the finalists models, but not everyone. You have already said you won't be noise testing Intermediate and Advanced and will only be noise testing the Masters and F3A Finalists. If you're not going to do noise for the entire contest, why do weight? They are both rules. Or is one more important then the other?

RE: NATS 2012
 

Tony,

I spoke to Jim Quinn about all of the above items. The Banquet should be significantly cheaper this year as it will be held on site at the AMA, which will be free to the NSRCA. Many of the other SIG's who used the facility last year said it was top notch and had their banquets catered by a local place, and costs per head were between 10-15 dollars, so there should be very little expense to the NSRCA as the amount of food ordered will depend on the number of people attending. This should significantly lower the cost of the banquet as compared to previous years.

Regarding the entry fee deadlines. I spoke to Jim Quinn while at the NATS planning meeting and informed him of the reasoning for these deadlines as stated above. We have significantly relaxed the deadlines as compared to past years and yet allowed for the planning necessary to take place. I learned quite a bit from speaking to past ED's on things that can create headache's for the ED and one of them was the late entries when you have to set up judging matrix's and such. These deadlines are closer to the start of the event, and in future years if the ED wants to try allowing them up to the start of the contest, they are more than welcome to. I chose this route after much research and I don't see why it creates a problem. The later you allow entrants, they later you receive entrants. I still have a full time job and such and I can't spend the last few days prior to the NATS sitting at home trying to come up with how to run things since I don't have a clue how many people will actually show. Our NATS are some of the most complex out there due to how we do judging and such. We discussed that BOD meeting that the NSRCA was open to giving back refunds, but we did not know the policy of the AMA. The policy is that the AMA does not refund any monies after a set date prior to the event. The NSRCA can refund their part anytime they want. I would think most people would know 2 weeks out if they are going to take a vacation. Yes, some things change, but for the vast majority this is not an issue.

Whether or not I agree with how something is done, does not mean that it wont be followed. I plan to follow the procedures for the Masters finals as close as possible as I have yet to see them make a big difference in scoring. The possibility does exist that it can change a few spots of who gets in the finals, but rarely does it actually change the outcome of the contest.

If the Banquet begins at 6pm, then the Masters pilots will not be waiting much longer at all for their results, and the FAI pilots will be notified according to their rules. I am trying to verify 100% if we are allowed to wait to the banquet to announce the finalists, or if this must be done earlier. The unknowns will not be handed out until the banquet and the flight orders will be drawn at the banquet. Being a Team Selection year, this will also give the Team Manager an opportunity for some type of fund raising of his choice. The last few years there have been very few opportunities for all of the pilots to get together, and most of the time the pilots at site 4 have been left out of any meaningful awards ceremony. Many of them would like to start the journey home the day of the Masters and FAI finals and it is unfair to make them wait when there an alternative that has worked well in the past.

Unfortunately we do not have enough sound equipment to allow for use at all 3 sites. Therefore, sound will not be checked on site 4, and will only be checked for the finalists as this will only add time to a flight, thus making a day run longer. The weighing of the aircraft will not as it will be done after a flight.

I am fully aware that not everyone will agree with my efforts and I understand them. Over the years, due to various reasons, we have drifted further from the rule book and it has created additional problems. There will be probably be some growing pains this year and many lessons learned, but after years of attending the NATS, and being very close to the operations when my dad was a site director, and with Tara scoring, I have seen up close many of these issues and can come up with ways to avoid these pitfalls. As I told Jim Quinn when I accepted this position, I plan to run it as closely to the rule book as possible. There very well may be some parts that will not be able to be followed exactly and these will be published well in advance. One I can think of is that everyone will be required to be a certified judge, and if you miss a judging assignment your highest score will be dropped. This is the only way we can ensure we have adequate judges available.

The NATS are the only AAAAA event that we have, and as such should be run for what they are, the National Championships. This should be one event where as many rules can be followed as possible. If this causes rule makers to change the rules, then so be it, but until then, the rules are in the book, and whether we agree with them or not, they SHOULD be followed. As a competitor I am aware of many of the ways to get around certain rules and such, and I plan to eliminate as many of these as possible. I don't think that weighing and processing planes the day before the flights is the way to do this. I think the planes need to be weighed after a flight. There were new scales and tents purchased for the World Championships that we have access to that will make this process much easier and I plan to take advantage of them.

If there are people who disagree with the way this NATS will be run, I understand, as I have been a competitor and I have not always agreed with everything that has happened. I do however encourage those who disagree to step up and volunteer to be an Event Director in future years as I was not fully aware of the entire process, and I am sure there is still much I will learn leading up to the NATS. I am a very competitive person, and I walked away from the competition at least for this year as someone needed to step up and accept the position. I only ask that those who disagree, please give this a chance before immediately discrediting the event and deciding in advance what will and wont work. I think the key to a good Nationals is the planning and preparation side. The 2 week deadline window allows this process to be virtually completed before arrival in Muncie, which should make for a smoother run NATS.

Looking forward to seeing everyone next summer,

Archie

RE: NATS 2012
 

For those of you who are on the NSRCA email list, please excuse the duplicate post, but it is much easier to copy and paste this here than it is to retype the entire thing.

I want people to understand why I chose to do this. In previous years, it has been possible to make the finals of Masters and or FAI with an illegal airplane, and even worse, it was possible to win Intermediate or Advanced. If you choose to weigh the Intermediate and Advanced folks after the 5th or 6 round, you have no idea what they did the first four, and what if you had someone win all of those rounds, they could fail weight later and still conceivably win, or make changes to their plane to get them legal. Not that it has happened, but it was possible. By weighing Masters and FAI the night before, you truly have no idea what they could do to their planes. Once they received a sticker, no one ever verified anything again. They could change batteries or any number of other things and no one ever looked.

If you weigh each airplane once a day, then the possibility of this happening are greatly reduced. In this scenario, at least one round that must count for Intermediate and Advanced would have to be weighed and if they failed, and received a zero for that round, it would impact their ability to win the contest. The same goes for pilots in other classes with making the finals. Choosing to weigh at the very end does not prove that each plane was legal through the contest. I'm not saying this does or doesn't happen, I'm just saying that the possibility does exist and at the National Championships, I want to limit the number of these possibilities occuring.

At the pilots meeting, there is no way to know who will be making the finals. I'm sure there are people there who have no intention of winning or making the finals, but it is not fair to look down the list and make a judgement on who should, or who shouldn't be weighed and by waiting until the last day when the results are known, you have given those with a chance to win opportunities to "cheat" without being checked. Maybe for future years an option is given to pilots to sign a waiver or something saying they choose not to be weighed and they do not want their results to count. It was pointed out to me by someone that who cares if the 20th place pilot isn't weighed. Well, anyone finishing 21 or lower may very well care if they played by the rules. Granted, I am not sure this is the case, but the possibility does exist,

Arch

RE: NATS 2012
 

Archie,

I believe the Nats and how the pattern event is run is the responsibility of the NSRCA. As such, the NSRCA BOD should have a great deal of input on how the Nats is run. These items should have been discussed with the NSRCA BOD, not just Jim Quinn. He is not the final word on these subjects. He should have brought this discussion to the BOD but when I was on the board I never saw it. I would like to remind everyone of a couple of NSRCA Bylaws,

a. The powers, business and property of the Society shall be exercised, conducted and controlled by a Board of Directors. This board of directors will consist of the four elected executive officials and one representative from each NSRCA district in the United States. These representatives will be known as NSRCA District Vice-president's.

d. All significant policy statements, acts and expenditures must be approved by a two-thirds majority vote of the Board of Directors, excluding abstentions. This shall be a representative form of Government, which must, at all times, be responsive to the main body of the membership.

The ED for the Nats should have leeway to make judgement calls while the Nats are being run. Planning before the Nats should be a combination of AMA, ED and NSRCA BOD input with the decisions that are within the authority of the NSRCA being made by an NSRCA BOD vote.

As to the current rules regarding the Masters Finals, they can have a big effect on who makes the Finals. They return us to the process where if someone were to have a bad day, such as engine flame-outs for both flights of one day, they would have no chance of making the Finals. The rules now require scores from each qualifying day. Nobody liked that in the past and it was changed to eliminate that possibility. Why and how we got the rules we have now, I have no idea. But no one I have talked to wants to return to that old way.

I still feel you are picking and choosing what rules you have unilaterally decided to enforce and what ones you have decided not to enforce. Is weight a more important rule then noise? Because that is the statement you are making. With your process someone who is illegal in noise can win Intermediate or Advanced and can also make the Masters or F3A finals. Is that not unfair to the person who is legal in noise?

As to entry, I'm sorry Arch, but you will never know who and how many you will have before the Nats starts. No-shows will always happen and have been a big problem at the last three Nats I have attended. And the earlier you require entry and the stiffer you intend to enforce deadlines the more likely you will be to have no-shows. Do you intend to adjust flight orders to take in to account no-shows? At the last 3 Nats I have been to no-shows were never removed from the flight order. In 2010 it caused significant problems in the flight order rotation. Also, no-shows must be adjusted in the judging matrix. So, I'm sorry, you're going to be busy right up to the start of the contest adjusting entry. Might as well allow as many who want to enter the Nats.

I applaud the fact that you have taken this on. It is a sacrifice. I hope you can take this as constructive criticism and experienced input. Especially since we are very early in the planning process.

RE: NATS 2012
 

Tony,

I certainly take this as constructive criticism, and while the NSRCA does have an impact, the ultimate decisions are that of the ED. I am only attempting to follow the rules as closely as possible. I was not able to call a BOD meeting for discussion of the timetable for entry as the decisions had to be made at the AMA planning meeting. I agreed that morning to be the ED and was told by Jim Quinn to make the decisions that would ultimately make my life easier as the ED. I will admit I consulted Dave Guerin on this a lot as Dave as at the meeting and has more knowledge of running the NATS than anyone else. After this year I will present a report to the NSRCA BOD with lessons learned, and the BOD can make decisions on future ED's based on that.

I appreciate your stance on the Masters qualification, but I think you and I do disagree on this. I have never thought that the best 4 rounds should count in Masters. I do think that a round should come from each day as the ensures that rounds against every competition are counted. You and I both know that there are people who have flown in groups that made the finals simply because they scored higher on a day that they may have faced a weaker group. If you have a "bad" day in the finals with two flame outs you still will not win, so it doesn't matter the day in which you have the "bad" day.

I totally agree that I will be busy right up to the start, but it is much easier to work with 5-10 no shows than it is to work with 25-30 late entries, some of which could show up at the "door." You and I will have to agree to disagree on this. I have chosen this route as I have had conversations with previous ED's as well as ED's from other disciplines and they agree this is their opinion of how best to do it. I can only do my best to adjust the flight orders and such as they are presented and will do my best, but I do not believe that every decision, especially those which are in the rule book should have to be based on a vote from the BOD.

Currently the only thing I have actually done that is not 100% defined by the rule book is to set the entry dates. This had to be done at the NATS planning meeting and Yolanda and others at AMA will not accept any late entries this year. This can not and will not be changed this year. I do not understand how someone can not know 2 weeks in advance if they are traveling across the country. As I have said, register early, and then ask for a refund if you choose not to go. I attend conferences for work and other activities, all of which have a registration deadline. I do not understand why the NATS should be different. I also believe that a much more efficient contest can be run for the 100+ people who registered on time than would be the case if I had 50-75 people register within the last week.

The AMA does now own the required equipment to my knowledge to run a noise check on all three lines. I have the resources available without the NSRCA spending a dime to do the weights and measures. I am trying to enforce as many rules as possible within the resources I have. Some may not be able to be enforced and unfortunately that is a fact of life. I am publicly stating now that I plan to follow as many as possible, so contestants should do their best to make sure their planes are legal before arriving in Muncie, and if there are certain rules that can not be realistically enforced, then their planes are still legal. With the manpower allowed it will be very difficult to run a world's style processing, and as such I have to work with what I am given to do the best I can do.

Many of these things are things I believe the BOD needs to discuss for the 2013 NATS, as well as begin speaking to people now who may want to be the ED. I think the BOD should already be looking at 2013. Waiting til the last minute last year was not a good idea. I do ask we give this NATS a chance before deciding what wont work. As I have said several times, I understand there will be criticism and I can accept that, but I will do my best to run this as close to the rules as possible.

Arch

RE: NATS 2012
 

You're right Archie. I disagree and I think you are being too heavy handed at this early of a time. All of this should have been discussed with the NSRCA BOD and you chose not to do that. What kind of assistance from the NSRCA could have been available regarding late entry processing had you chosen to consult the BOD? It is too bad that you feel that December of 2011 is too late to discuss how the July 2012 Nats will be run.

RE: NATS 2012
 

Tony,

Unfortunately that is not how it works. The dates were locked in at the planning meeting and were signed off on by Jim Quinn. He understood and agreed. As you may or may not be aware, the NATS are NOT an NSRCA event. The NATS and an AMA event run by the NSRCA and as such the AMA is who signs off on those things. I made the choice that those would be the dates and while I understand your point of view, I disagree with you that we should allow entrants up until the start of the event.

Archie

RE: NATS 2012
 

Over the years there has been a lot of discussion on how to increas participation in the Nats. I don't see how implimenting these changes are going to encourage participation. I have never understood what advantage an over weight pattern plane has with assuming all other spec's are met. In my opinon weighing every aircraft after every flight is a huge waste of man-power. I do understand this for FAI finals as these people will be competing for a world team spot. Just my thoughts.
Dick

RE: NATS 2012
 

I agree wit Arch in this about weight last Nats nobody check weight in advanced or intermedite I finish in 3rd placed and my plane was never weight I think they have to enforced this rules about weight and sound (they are rules) I now in local contest we dont enforced this rules but me as builder and pilot always keep my plane under 5000g even that we have a new weight limit in Int. and advanced i will make my planes weight under 5000g.

RE: NATS 2012
 

I can see both sides to the weight issue for sure.

On one hand, the point is well made that the rules are there, and should be followed. But in that case, ALL rules should be followed or you're setting yourself up for issues when someone asks why one rule is followed while another is not.

The reality is there is no benefit to 'cheating' the weight limit. An overweight airplane will not fly better under any circumstances. In some ways, the weight issue is unenforceable as well unless you weigh every airplane prior to fueling, or immediately after flight allowing the glow pilot to de-fuel as necessary. Weighing aircraft at any other time results in a window where the airplane can be changed to whatever the normal flight configuration is for it after passing the specified weight measurement.

As for the logistical decisions.. I don't really see this as an issue. Registration deadlines exist in all facets of life. I don't see anything wrong with Arch wanting to have a clear picture of Nats attendees with enough lead-time to get all scheduling wrapped up and reviewed as early as possible. There PROBABLY aren't many people that 2 weeks out are suddenly going to decide to attend the Nats. So the argument that the cutoff time for registration is harsh is a bit unfair. Arch is in a no-win situation here I think for some people. Close off registration too soon, and people get upset. Let registration go too long, and you run the risk of flightline scheduling being a problem, and worse, potentially leaves pilots with a bad experience at the Nats, possibly reducing their chances of returning.

As for announcing finalists.. I agree this should be done as quickly as possible once the results are known so pilots have as much time as possible to prepare. The flip-side of the coin of course, is that no matter how much time is given, it's the same for all pilots and therefore is in fact, fair to all pilots. The REALITY of this is.. if you're in the finals in FAI, you're of sufficient talent to handle the unknown regardless of how much time you're given.

RE: NATS 2012
 

Aircraft Mfrs make aircraft light because they fly better and in order to sell them. Individuals make them light because they perform better! If the powers to be whether that be FAI or AMA wanted to make a cost control rule they should make a "minium" weight rule. Then it would make sense to have a weight rule and provide the man-power to enforce it. Anyone that doesn't believe that needs to take a look at the performance envelope of the newly designed IMAC aircraft flown in even the lower classes, much less the top class.
If we are going to pick and choose rules to enforce the weight rule should be at the top of the list to compromise on.
Dick
PS: Sorry about the slight thread creep but it goes straight to the requirement of weighing all aircraft after every flight.

RE: NATS 2012
 

Waiting till the last minute to hand out unknowns only benefits the pilots well skilled at the unknowns. Those who this may be their first F3A Finals at the Nats may very well be flying an unknown for the first time. In F3A, you don't get a lot of contest practice to become adept at unknowns. No local contest uses them. So unless you are also an IMAC flier, you never get to do a pattern unknown at a contest until you do make the Finals at a Nats.

While I have my specific objection to what is being pushed by Arch, my biggest problem is the lack of input from all the relative sources and the lack of a joint decision. After all, this is not Arch's Nats, it's ours.

RE: NATS 2012
 

Maybe the best thing will be for Tony Fracoviak to volunteer to run the Nats in 2013, that you will have more input and control on how to run the Nats


Rene Grebe

RE: NATS 2012
 

Tony,

Unknowns can NOT be handed out until dark to eliminate any possibility of someone wanting to go practice. They have to receive the unknown at least 12 hours prior to the start of their flying. Due to the sun issues and that Indiana changed to observe daylight savings time, flying will start at 9am rather than 8 to compensate for the sun issues. This means that the pilots will need to receive the unknowns prior to 9pm the night before. This will not be an issue. It usually gets dark in Muncie between 8 and 9, so this isn't affecting anything. I have also spoken to quite a few of the FAI pilots who usually are in the finals and all of them have no issues with the banquet being the night before and are perfectly comfortable with receiving the unknowns this way.


Arch