Mikado V Plane
 

Has anyone checked out the Mikado V Plane? I've heard some good things about it but haven't been able to learn much from their web site. My thinking is that it would be nice to have a relatively inexpensive practice airplane that would fly as well as my Oxai Acuracy which I refuse to fly at my local flying sites. From what I hear the Mikado system might be what is needed. You still have to fly the airplane but it will hold the lines you establish even under adverse conditions.

I know many of the RC manufacturers are talking about built in stabilization systems but apparently the Mikado stuff is ready to go now.

Jim O

Not sure how much use it would be for pattern practice. I haven't tried Vplane, requires VControl radio and I'm a JR guy, but all of my helicopters have Vbar, and I love them.

From the videos, the plane does EXACTLY what you ask. Knife edge? Roll it to 90 degrees and let go. Knife edge loop? Apply rudder.

Fun for the Sunday flier, great for party tricks, but for a precision pilot that wants to improve their skills? Useless.

Tom M

Hi Tom,

Thanks for the response. I'm guessing as a pattern guy, you are a precision helicopter pilot and that you use Vbar to improve your skills or you wouldn't use them? Or perhaps they make a poor flying helicopter a better flying helicopter? Or they save time and money, or...????

I'm pretty sure if I had a smaller plane that would fly the pattern with no mixes and not get tossed around by the wind, I could concentrate on doing the maneuvers and not worry about making corrections a well trimmed 2 meter airplane doesn't need.

I believe stabilization systems could do all the things I listed above and that they will become very popular in fixed wing airplanes just as they have become in helicopters.

If they were useless I doubt we would have rules against them.

Jim O

Airplanes are inherently stable. Helicopters are not. FBL gyros are not used to improve one's flying, but to make the models actually flyable. We used paddles or heavily weighted blades in the past to do this, but it was never as good as the full three axis gyro. It's not about precision for 99% of people (F3C just allowed them this cycle), it's about being able to fly them.

I've flown a few of the BNF micro planes with the gyros, UMX I think Spektrum calls them. Can be a lot of fun, the gyro makes the little buggers flyable and flyable in winds that would not be possible otherwise, so you are right in the first part of your statement. But flying a three axis gyro will also make you not have to worry about making corrections that your 2 meter DOES need. It gives a whole different feel.

They will become popular in planes once the manufacturers figure out how best to employ them. But the reason they will catch on is that once used, it makes the actually flying so easy that anybody can do it without much effort. Who will need to learn to trim? Who will need to learn to apply mixing? Who will need to learn to use rudder in a slow roll? Not many will, the gyros will do it all. Will be good for the hobby in general, for a while, more accessible to more people, but the challenge will be gone. Pattern will be gone too, or radically different.

Couple years ago I put an Eagle Tree gyro on a cheapo EPP foamy. This thing was crooked and poorly designed. But, it was cheap and fun because of that. Without the gyro, it flew like most of those planes do... unpredictable, in normal flight. Could be hovered, but you really had to be on it, so it was a good trainer for that.

With the gyro on, I could do horizon to horizon knife edge passes with only throttle and rudder. Knife edge loop? No problem, just add more rudder. Hovering, was hands off... showing off, I actually set it up and set the transmitter down. The plane stayed there (climbing, but that was on purpose)

I must not have been clear what I meant here. For somebody who is trying to improve their skills in flying pattern, these gyros are useless as they will mask issues that you will have to deal with without them. There are rules against them because somebody using them will fly in competition beyond their ability.

And no, I don't fly helicopters in any type of a precision way.

Tom M

Thinking more about this, the nice thing about the Vplane is it's adjustability/tunability. You would be able to dial down the gain so that it would still fly somewhat like an airplane and not like the sim so much. Dial down the yaw, and you would still need to use the rudder in rolls. But this also might work against the goal you are trying to achieve.

Also nothing against the Mikado, I have a handful of their FBL units and one of their helicopters, but in order to use the Vplane you must use their radio. We don't know how much the new Neo gyros are going to cost, but even if you pick up a Mini-vbar used (have to be careful with this as there are a lot of counterfeit units out there that will not allow you to update the firmware) for $150-200, the Vcontrol radio is going to be $750 with receiver. Close to $1000 all in.

Since you are using the Jeti, Jim, I'd look at the Bavarian Demon Cortex unit. Never used one but I've read good things about it. And Jeti and Bavarian Demon are developing the ability for the Jeti to talk to the new heli gyros they are developing and I'm assuming a new airplane one is coming as well. Much like the Vcontrol, you'll be able to adjust from your transmitter, even accomplishing the initial set up that way. But that's not out yet right now, but at around $350 the present unit would be cheaper than a whole new radio. There are a couple others out there that are similarly priced.

JR has one that is getting good reviews, but it's Xbus or S-bus compatible only.

A three axis gyro changes not only the stability, but the controllability and feel of the aircraft. Since a 2M plane still needs to be flown through manuevers, I am really not sure how benifitial how a gyro controlled plane can help you improve your flying of a plane that is not gyro controlled. But that's my two cents.

Tom M

I have flown a number of these stabilizers in my Sebart Angel S including the Bavarian Demon Cortex. While they did make the Angel fun to fly, they did not satisfy me completely and that's why I was asking about the V Plane. I liked the FY-30 which is in hold mode at all times but airplanes don't respond in yaw like helicopters do, so you end up with a lot more rudder work even to make nice banking turns. I felt it hurt rolling stuff and would prefer to turn it off. I only flew the Cortex in Normal mode but it too had a hold component that I felt could be improved in the yaw channel. At the time they suggested not using the Hold mode but I believe they have new firmware and I should probably try it again. I'm convinced there are times when the hold mode in yaw is desirable but I'd like to be able to switch it to a pure rate damping mode in some flight conditions.

The way I set up the Cortex allows you to have a normal feel as each channel is essentially disengaged as soon as you move that stick off neutral. That might not be the best approach as I remember flying a friend's plane that we had put an FY-20 in, which was pure rate damping and it made his little plane fly like a much larger plane. A nice feel, however then you need to readjust throws for when the system is on vs. off.

Right now I drive 90 miles to Arvin to fly once a week. I believe if I could get the stabilized Angel to fly nearly as well and I flew at Sepulveda twice a week (in addition) it would help.

Jim O

Have you tried programming the cortex through the USB cable? I have cortex in my Funtana 30cc and its alsolutely locked-in In both precision and high alpha manuovers. I suggest you bump the gains on the rate mode till you find oscillations on any of the surfaces and then reduce the gains on the respective Surface ( the one that oscillated) by 1-2 clicks on the programming interface. For pattern you could also reduce the stick priority and increase the latching priority. Usually the ailerons would start to oscillate first when gains are bumped.
I can do a slow roll on the rate mode with out giving rudder and elevator on the cortex. The way the algorithm of the cortex is written, it dosnt need the heading hold mode. So basically you can program the unit to have rate modes only and you could try different gains, latching / stick prioritys. Try this before giving up on cortex and I am sure it would work for you.
good luck !

Hey Jim,

I bought a EFlite Yak 54 because I was Interested in the product for a few reasons. One of which was that it seemed like a fairly rugged plane for pattern practice at the local ballfield near my work. I have flown it as such with and without the ASX stabilization but with the stabilization at a low-to-moderate gain setting, at 48" span it flies similarly to my Osiris 62 and is great for pattern practice at that little field. So, I'd say, yes, you're onto something.

Billx

I know this thread is old but I noticed Mikado now has the VBasic receivers with no stabilization. I kept my VControl after I sold my heli and pretty much just fly airplanes now. I love how this transmitter feels in my hands and will probably keep it around for some of my airplanes.

With stabilisation, F3A or any other RC fixed wing no longer has to be stable. Imagine that cat thrown in amongst the pigeons with a future schedule and designs to exploit it?

One thing that the FBL in Heli's has improved is the pureness of the inputs. For me, 3/4 of the mental workload with Heli aerobatics is identifying and correcting the impurity of the inputs. Simply doing a 360 piro hovering in wind was a bit of a dance on the sticks. Sure flybar ratios and whatnot could have been tweaked better but my eyesight isn't super flash either and depending on light conditions it could take a second or more to recognise something oddball that needed correction.