RE: Composite ARF Impact
 

Sounds like there are some Impacts scattered around now. Anybody have an acurate weight on one all up RTF? With just a few respondants it looks like 9.5-9.75 is the ball park. What equipment is used to come out at those weights? What (if any) extra measures are being used to get those weights? Anybody know the weight of Shulman's?

If the garden variety Impact comes in around 9.5-9.75 I'm real tempted to shoe-horn a gasser in one. I think it could be done and come in under 11 lbs with a ZDZ 40. That is, if they really do weigh that much under ten lbs.

Any info on those flying or almost flying would be appreciated.

RE: Composite ARF Impact
 

Jasons' is very close to 11 lbs with batteries.

My Nats set-up
 

Here is the set-up I used at the Nats:

Airplane: Composite-ARF Impact
Radio: Futaba 9ZAP
Servos: Futaba: Ail: 9151, Elv: 9650, Rud:9151
RX: Futaba 148 DP
Motor: Hacker C-50 14XL 6.7:1 Acro
Controller: Master-90-Acro
Prop: APC-E 22x12
Batteries: Thunder Power 10S3P 6000 mAh ($325 a half-pack, $650 for the 10S3P)
Duralite 6V reg with 730 2-cell
Kirby's Kustom (last minute) Graphics
Wt: 11lbs RTF

The airplane was finished just before I left for the Nats, but having flown the Rev-Pro all year, it was easy to get adjusted to the Impact. It actually performed better than the Rev-Pro, so it gave me a bit of a confidence boost once I had it set-up. The plane was 2.2 ounces over 11lbs when I left home, but I used a Tru-Turn spinner instead of the supplied Carbon one, and had a bit of extra "junk" here and there. I do have another Impact here that I will stick my OS 140 EFI (or maybe 160 FI) but not until November or so after all the big plane contests are done with.

Impact set-up
 

As of this time, I don't have much of this info, as the planes are not in my possession, but here are a few things I remember.

There is NO rudder to aileron or elevator mix.
I have 2% down elevator with low throttle mix.
I don't know where the CG is, but I did change it from forward to rearward from the P-05 to F-05 schedule.
I also do not know where the incidence is set, but starting with the indents in the mold, I dropped the TE of the stab down 3/32". This changed the angle of attack of the fuselage from tail low to a more "level" look.
Thrust is as per the front of the fuselage.
The rudder is very effective. I can do the 1 roll loop on low rate, but it is easier to control with high rate. I didn't notice any coupling at the extremes either, but I wasn't looking for them, just practicing.

When I get the plane back, I will try and measure throws and incidences right away, but it may be a month before I can get to it (about to be real busy). If you have any other questions about the Impact, please feel free to post them here.

RE: Composite ARF Impact
 

Jason did you put wing and stab adjusters in the Impact?

RE: Impact set-up
 

Jason are you a distributor for the plane? Mike

RE: Impact set-up
 

I did not put any adjusters on, they weighed more than the stock set-up, but was close to putting wing adjusters in it.

I am a rep for Comp-ARF and can be reached at [email protected] All ordering is done through the website at [link]http://www.composite-arf.com[/link]

RE: Impact set-up
 

Mups53,
I currently only have the weight for the fusalage with chin cowl, canopy and false pipe floor. It comes in at 28 oz on button. Currently the plane is over at a friends who is helping me set the wing tube, stab and the incedences. I will get the weight of the stab and wing for you later this week.

P.S.
This plane is beautiful!!! Glass work is first rate. Now you can take this with a grain of salt because this is my 2nd pattern plane and my first composite plane.

RE: Impact set-up
 

Hello to all,

I had the chance to see an Impact with electric motor at the international F3A-Hydro competition in Schongau, Germany. It was flown by the german Pilot Manfred Greve (also rep for C-ARF) with a Plettenberg outrunner motor, Schulze ESC, 18x12 RASA propeller and 10S3P Kokam 2000 mAh batteries. Forgot to ask about the AUW, but must be close to 5Kg incl. floats. BTW, the same setup is used by world-class pilot Bernd Beschorner of Germany. I attach a couple of picture of this unusual contest. If you need more information about the category or the contest I'd be more than happy to help.

Quality is outstanding, flight performance is outstanding, price is IMHO also outstanding. Looking forward to seeing more of these planes around.

Regards,
-Fabrizio

RE: Impact set-up
 

Hi Neo02 or to Manfred Greve,

Can you specify ( the model or reference ) of the Plettemberg motor and the Schulze ESC, used on that IMPACT ?

Regards
DV

RE: Composite ARF Impact
 

Rob,

You and the other guys that have an IN with Hacker need to convince them to use helical gears in their boxes. They are not only less noisy, but they don't wear as fast either.

BTW, Astroflight went to helical gears several years back.

Wiz

RE: Impact set-up
 

@DV: AFAIK both the outrunner as well as the ESC are still proposals and were given to them for testing purposes. The motor should be the new Plettenberg Extra 25 ([link=http://www.plettenberg-motoren.com/Xtra/Xtra.htm]link[/link]), no idea about the ESC, but I remember him saying it was a new design by Schulze. Hope this helps.

RE: Impact set-up
 

Hi DV,

Have a look in post no. 55, 56, 57, 58 and 63 of this thread. Here I gave some info on Manfreds setup. At the time I saw his Impact he was using a Hacker/Jeti Master 77-3P Opto ESC since he fried the Schulze one by mistake... Motor is a Plettenberg Extra 25-13 outrunner. [link=http://www.plettenberg-motoren.com/Xtra/Xtra.htm]http://www.plettenberg-motoren.com/Xtra/Xtra.htm[/link]

The outrunner motors without gearboxes are REALLY quiet!!!

RE: Composite ARF Impact
 

Morten,

How did Manfred's version compare to a current glow setup. I noticed from your original posts that his setup uses 2000mah. Is this adequate to fly a full F3A schedule. Are the outrunner setups more efficient than the Hacker / gearbox setups. I also noticed the propeller sizes are much different between the setups. I assume here that the actual gearing ratio of the Plettenberg setups is different to the Hacker 6.7:1.


Please provide any additional information if you have any.


Regards,

Peter

RE: Composite ARF Impact
 

Hi Peter,

I think maybe you misunderstood the post. The power output of the motor is 2.2kW = 2200 Watts which is pretty close to 3HP. He was running Kokam 10S3P 10C batteries where each single cell has a 2000mAh capacity. Since the pack is in 3P configuration the capacity of the pack is 3 x 2000mAh = 6000mAh. Max. continuous current consumption was 60Amps using this battery. This battery pack weighs exactly 1400 grams and his all up weight in standard mode (not the water plane mode) was 4600 grams.

Manfred told me recently that he since then switched to the new 15C cells, and the all up weight of the Impact is now only 4250grams. I guess the new battery pack is a 10S2P pack of 2000mAh cells giving a total capacity of 4000mAh, but because of the 15C cells he can still pull out 60Amps continuously...

The power of the original setup with 10S3P battery was very convincing. I saw Bernd Beschorner flying the model through the F-05 schedule, and it was really beautiful and QUIET!!! The model pulled through all maneuvers effortlessly. Rolling loops, vertical snaps etc....

There is NO gearing in the Plettenberg motor. The motor is an outrunner...

RE: Composite ARF Impact
 

Morton,


Thanks for the clarification.

As for the gearbox I am aware that the outrunner has no gearbox. However due to the design of the motor it does provide some form of gearing as the external part of the motor rotates instead of the armature. It is just interesting that the outrunner setup uses 18inch diameter props while the hacker setups are using the 22inch setup. Certainly an important consideration if you intend to retrofit an existing model with marginal ground clearance.


Regards,

Peter

mAh Math
 

In my set-up with the TP 10S3P 6000 mAh, after a 10 minute flight (or P-05) I have used 4200-4400 mAh of the 6000mAh available. So with a Hacker set-up, a 10S3P is the minimum (at this time) that could be used. I'm sure once there are 3000mAh cells, then a 10S2P would work, but would it be any lighter or would it be heavier? When I fly the F-05 sequence, I use 3800-4000mAh. This is all at a 58-60A full throttle set-up.

RE: mAh Math
 

Hi JAS

With that configutation 10S3P 6000mAh is reasonable to say that we can make two P-05's by each flight ?

Regards
DV

RE: Impact set-up
 

@Morten: sorry, I completely missed your earlier posts about M.Greve's setup, I apologize (lazy me!! :D). From the picture you posted I noticed some changes.
First, he now uses a Schulze ESC which in his words provides better performance in mid-range and on startup (main problem with outrunner-type motors). Still not perfect, though: on one flight he got ther motor running backwards for a short period. I guess some work is still to be done.
Secondly, he replaced the heavy receiver NiCd-battery with Lipos soldered directly to the 10S3P pack. This brings more security as the aren't charged inside the plane where they can eventually catch fire and burn.
Last, the added weight of the floats must be about 350g, maybe less since his are really light and small. In the air the float act like a brake and further slows the plane down. What he showed and what impressed the most of us was how slow the whole setup was flying but still how much power to pull the aircraft vertical without problems and very quietly (you only hear the propeller).
He also told me that they are trying to put together a package everyone can buy which includes engine, lipos, ESC, chargers and all the hardware; pilots should then be able to buy a unit that works and that can effortlessly be installed in a 2m pattern plane. More about this in the coming months.

Regards,
-Fabrizio

RE: mAh Math
 

Hi Jason,

You have to remember that Manfreds Impact with the 10S2P battery only weighs 4250grams... I guess the power consumption is reduced if the weight is so low;)

If your Impact weighs ~5000grams his is a whole 750grams lighter!

I must say however that I have no experience with the electric powered setups, I'm only writing here what Manfred told me.

RE: mAh Math
 

I can see how the 10S2P would fly the plane, especially at the lighter weight, but there is still the fact that it's pulling a 2M pattern plane around. It might get through a sequence, I don't know, but somehow I don't think it would. It sure would be nice to have the plane 750g lighter though...;) If you talk to him again, could you find out if he can get through the sequences with the 10S2P packs?

BTW: Nice Impression Morten.

I don't believe it's possible to go through 2 sequences with the 3P, but maybe with a 4P though.

RE: Composite ARF Impact
 

I see that Jason isn’t sure of his starting incidence settings but decided to add some positive to stab to correct a tail low flying characteristic. I am getting ready to set the incidences on my plane and can see that with the wing at 0 and the motor at 0 the tail is low. I have a question to those that are flying the plane already. What are your incidences and flying qualities? If you are happy with the presentation and flying quality, what are your final settings? The design does not allow for any easy changes to the incidences after they are set. I want to get them as close to right the first time. Your input would be much appreciated.

Electric Composite ARF Impact Link
 

[link]http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259592[/link]

Here is the link to my set-up of the Impact electrifried.

RE: Composite ARF Impact
 

LOL. thanks, wonder how long that link will stay here.

RE: Composite ARF Impact
 

I would assume (hope) until it's not looked at anymore...LOL.