Are the planes worth it?
 

Hi all,
I never really thought about this before, but I have just realised that alot of the planes that are being bought now, are just stupid in the amount invested in them. I have often seen prices of and above $5000 being spent on ONE plane.....Is it worth it? What brought this on was that a comp I missed, a guy unfortunately crashed and wrote off his pattern model, which was worth ALOT of money. (Not including radio gear!). This was his only model, extremely ex*****ive, and now its gone. he can't compete this season any more. I wasn't there, but the CD told me that his heart was broken when he saw the guy walking back carrying the remains of the model.
I am going to get a pattern model someday, it was going to be bought fully built, ready to fly, but after I realised that I could get two models, partly built by a builder, and finished off by me, in the air, with gear and everything, for the same price, I revised my tactics.... :)
So the question stands, are they worth it?
Robert.

Are the planes worth it?
 

The people who spend the money see it as a sport, not a hobby. It's like golf or Formula 1 racing, you just gotta have the right piece of kit! I believe that you get what you pay for, if you're buying from established manufacturers.

Are the planes worth it?
 

Hi Robert,

How was the holiday?

I think these models are worth it. I have mu TOC model and that is about $8K and my scale F/A-18 is about $12k The model of the Grey Cloud will be in excess od $22K. Each one fills a need. However I have my indoor free flight at $4 . . . . . This is as much fun but in a diferent way. Guess it matters not what they cost but how you get the enjoyment from them that counts.

Cheers,

Are the planes worth it?
 

$22,000 model airplanes. $150,000+ full-size sailplanes. Multi million dollar athletes. Yes, I guess we have our priorities straight. BTW just my opinion and I'm entitled to it. Enjoy whatever.

Are the planes worth it?
 

Robert

I have had a plane professionally built for me, in my opinion it was not worth it.

Yes the plane was a peice of art, but it was not any more accurate than I can build myself it just had a little more fit and finish to it than I can do.

Current pattern models are a cinch to build, take my new ZN Line Evolis for instance. The incidence line on the stab is marked on the fuse when molded, as well as the location for the MK bellcrank (if you use it) cutouts for the gear are marked on the bellypan. The firewall and nose ring are precut and even have holes drilled in them to accomodate the popular mounts. The thrust is molded into the front of the fuse. The wing saddle is made to the correct incidence so the wing is automatically positioned. All tail formers are pre-cut to the correct size. Wing,stab, and rudder are all sheeted and aileron and elevators are routed out. All the wood to complete the kit it provided. The only difficult thing to do it align the wing and stab to the fuse, if you can find someone to do that for you voila you are done perfect plane. It is the best bang for your buck in my opinion.

You may not be able to paint them up like the ZN guys can, but who really notices your paint job when you are flying the patterns?

If I had the money I would have all my stuff custom built, but not because they do it better just because it saves me the time of doing it and I could spend more time practising.

Are the planes worth it?
 

I spend based on my pain threshold. That is, if I lost a model, would I cry all the way home? If so, I'm spending too much money/time on it. I flew my plane into a fence last week. Ran out of fuel. It has a notch in the leading edge which can be fixed so no big deal.

I was recently at a local IMAC competition. I was amazed at how many people are flying 40%. These guys are advanced pilots, but the value of the plane just doesn't make sense to me. Actually, there were some 40%ers in Sportsman too. To me, it would be like buying a car for a million dollars. There's just no conceivable reason to do it. Even if I could burn up $5k without thinking about it, I wouldn't do it on an R/C airplane.

Having said that, I am considering a 1/4 scale plane that will probably be just under $1k ready to go. That's my theoretical limit at this time. I figure a catastrophic crash will total the airframe and cause abut $500 worth of damage. I can live with that.

Oh yea, those big planes are loud too. :p

Are the planes worth it?
 

The question of worth is extremely personnal. Why does someone pay over $500 for a driver???

My 37% Extra crashed first flight, costing me an additional $2500 to rebuild(yeah I'm not too smart) but it now has close to 400 flights and placed at the Nats in Advanced last year.

So for me, the enjoyment I have gotten was well worth the $$ and have plans to enjoy this model even more.

As far as professional building, I've built all my own and take a certain pride in that. The paint on Pattern planes isn't outstanding, but it is OK for me and as said above, no one can see the imperfections in the air, but it still flies great.
If I didn't have the time, or the shop to do so, someone else's building would have to do though.

Ed

Are the planes worth it?
 

Robert..........high performance never, ever comes cheap!
However, a good balance of $$ vs performance is the Pattern plane. Once you fly a well trimmed Pattern plane, you will find it hard to get much interest in flying sport planes anymore.
I've been building & flying most types of planes most of my life and for the past 17 years my only interest has been in Pattern and enjoying those wonderful hours upon hours I have spent blasting across the sky.
Dave

Are the planes worth it?
 

Hey guys you only live once so enjoy it. Spend what ever it takes to get your project off the ground. I've got probably 8-10K invested in two giantscale planes. I work lots of hours so in order to maintain some sanity I like to build planes in my spare time. Some people think I'm silly to spend my hard earned money on the planes..but these are the same guys who have lost 100k in the stock market. At least I have something to show for it :D

Are the planes worth it?
 

Giant.....I totally agree. Nothing is going to stop me from flying Pattern....and so far I've lost over $400K.
Dave

Are the planes worth it?
 

Dave,
Ouch...that hurts :eek:

Are the planes worth it?
 

I don't mind how much you spend on your planes, its yours to spend whichever way, but I never really realised just how much we do spend. Take for instance. My family have a small Suzuki car, with a 1 liter engine. Last year, the radiator broke, and the engine cooked really fast. We had 3 options, to fix it, which could lead to problems, to get a second hand engine, or a new engine. We got a newish, second hand engine, for some 500 euro. The price for a new on, was around 1500-2000 Euro. This is a car engine, and it is cheaper, than the DA 150! Sure the DA 150 is beautiful and is quite an incredible piece of engineering, but we could get a brand new car engine for the same price. For the price of the rest of the model, we could probabaly get a car to go round the engine too!!!

Worth it?
 

Yes. It's worth it. Necessary? No.

You DO get what you pay for. Say you are buying a ZNLine airplane. For about $900.00 you get a fantastic kit that can be built to compete at the highest level using proper techniques and reasonable skills. They are not at all difficult to build. If you have a good spray booth and can paint really well, then your finish may be just as good as our painter can do it. Maybe you don't care for a six toned, clear coated paint job with graphics. It's all up to you as the builder to build the kit as you want it. Your hard work can make up the the difference in cost here. Your money will have been well spent.

For about $3200.00 to $3700.00 (depending upon number of colors), you get a finished airplane ready for the installation of your equipment. For a little more your equipment will be installed for you or you could purchase everything with the kit. The alignment will be perfect, the airplane very tight, the paint quite unbelievable. Gaphics will be designed and added according to your desires, or if you like the standard plus you name, it's all done and applied before the clear coat goes on. Lots of manhours will have been put into your airplane and if you where being charged by the hour for labor, you would realize that you were actually getting a pretty good deal. Again, considerably more expensive, however, your money will have again been well spent.

Between those two choices is the ready to cover version. The airpane will be completed without paint or covering. This provides a remarkable saving over a finished airplane because of the almost 100 hours saved. Now you have a perfectly aligned and glued airplane which leavesd the most expensive, time consuming part up to you. Remember, factory finishing to perfection is a time consuming job because there are no shortcuts taken. 2mm overlap on covering to the clear coat over a multitoned finish that has been sanded to 2000 fine.

One other point. A professionally built F3A airplane is NOT an ARF. It is a one at a time produced airplane per order. At the ZNLine factory, there is no assembly line and never will be. There will never be a quality or weight difference between the advirtised product and the airplane that you receive as is often the case between the designers ARF prototype and the production version (see the ARFs forum for a multitude of complaint about this situation.

So, the short of it is...yes, it's worth it, but it's not necessary.

Mark

Are the planes worth it?
 

Hi Robert,
I believe the model that crashed at the comp you are refering to was an Angels Shadow. I have two and can tell you that yes it is a lot of money to spend but the way I look at it, is that I will never be able to produce a model of that standard and if I counted the number of hours it would take me to get even close to that standard then it doesnt seem so expensive. JMHO

Are the planes worth it?
 

Hi Niall,
WIll you be doing anything on the Hinging on your Angels Shadow? I'd be scared to fly it!!!

Different Levels
 

There are as many different answers to this question as there are reasons for falling in love, or getting married. Look at the vast number, and various sizes and kinds of planes out there. Some guys come to the field with five planes, some want to get intimate with one. That's me. I always bring one and get to know it in and out. We have different reasons for going flying. Ive been going for about 27 years now. Believe me, it gets harder and harder to stay motivated and focused. Since 1993 when I did some competing in pattern and competition fun fly, I've always strived to become a better pilot. That led me on a chase of the perfect airplane. Wow! That's a mouthfull. I did lots of building, but no matter what, I always wanted the next plane in line to do a little more. I never never never wanted to spend lots of money and time on a giant plane. Couldn't rationalize or justify it. As I was eternally chasing my perfections, I happened on a giant scale fly in one Sunday and that was it. I saw for myself and instantly realized that most everything I wanted in a plane was right in front of me. I scrimped, saved and sold, and finally got my first large plane. I gotta tell you. I've never looked back and I'm having a blast. There is also a certain feeling of serenity knowing that I can now concentrate on flying, and not have that building, working in the basement got to get it done feeling looming over me. As someone else said, if you're having fun, it's worth it_bob

Are the planes worth it?
 

Hi Robert,
The latest Angels Shadow (Mark 3) has a fibre glass hinge system instead of the film hinge system. I have one with and one without and have never had a problem. I also know that Ray Keane has had over 500 flights on his original Angels Shadow without incident. However it is a bit unsettling to see a plane go in because of the hinge system. When I was putting the gear in the first Angels Shadow I made sure that the elevator travel was not enough to pop the film out of the groove even when the plane is switched off (if you know what I mean :confused: )

Are the planes worth it?
 

It's all relative. We "want" so we spend. All of us are guilty of it. Like the man said about the price of a DA150, it costs too darn much, but they wouldn't cost that much if they couldn't sell them for that!!! We have done this to ourselfs. Everyone is trying to get the one thing that is better than all the rest. I used to spend more than I do now, but 2 little children and a slow economy have killed my ability to spend what it takes to do what I want to do. For now I am doing the 1/2A up to 120 size stuff and enjoy it very much, but when I can, I will be spending too much again, trying to get that "PERFECT" plane!!!

Re: Worth it?
 

Hey Mark

What does ZN charge for this service? I cant afford to do it but just curious. Besides building them gives me something to do when it is -40C here :)

It's a bit less than half the finished cost.
 

I believe it would run about $1500.00-$1800.00 in current exchange figures. That includes the kit price, so the basic build up actually runs between $600.00-$900.00 depending upon certain variables (mainly canopy installation and pre-fitting of the gear).

This gives an idea of how labor intesive the finishing process is.

On another note, the build-up process of my Enigma and new Majestic will be photographed step by step and procedures will be outlined for publishing on the ZN website. Hopefully this will encourage more folks to try their hand at building as some folks may be a little intimidated by the thought of building an expensive, precision F3A airplane. This will help all around as there is no way we can meet the demand for finished or pre-fabbed airplanes and must turn many orders away because of unreasonable waiting periods.


Mark

Are the planes worth it?
 

That is less that what I was thinking, but still out of my budget for now, I need a raise :)

Fortunately I am pretty decent at building pattern ships now having built 8 of my own pattern ships over the years, I can do it fairly quickly and quite accurate. I still have to finish the other Evolis though :) and the Enigma when it gets here in August :)

I would be very interested in seeing a detailed construction of your Enigma, I am always looking for new and better ways to do things especially as these are my first one peice wing models that I have built.

Anyways just to let you know the Evolis is flying awesome, I wished I had gotten one a long time ago :)

People are starving..
 

. :(

Are the planes worth it?
 

Hey guys,

I know that this is somewhat off topic, but since you were talking about ZNLine, when did they re-do their site? It looks real nice, and I like the Flash animation.

Mark, have you flown the Enigma? How does it do? Thanks.

Are the planes worth it?
 

I think so too, their last site wasn't exactly top notch, but they have caught up again I think.

Are the planes worth it?
 

R/C flying is gambling. Your're betting the airplane will last more than one flight. If you can't afford to lose it on the first flight than your're in the wrong price bracket and out of you're league.
Some people can afford to lose $5000 but they drive Mercedes and BMWs. I drive a '91 Chev pickup and fly $300 to $500 airplanes. It hurts a little to lose but I can afford it on occasion.Under these conditions I really enjoy R/C flying. By the same token I enjoy watching people fly 40% planes and I'm glad they are enjoying the hobby also. Never bet money you can't afford to lose. You'll be a much happier person!!!