Advanced Skill Level
 

It has been suggested that the jump from Intermediate to Advanced is too big and the jump from Advanced to Masters is too small. Where should the Advanced Difficulty level fall.....

Not where is it today but where should it be compared to today's schedule.

This poll will also run until 12th of March at Midnight MST
Thanks

Troy Newman
Chairman, NSRCA Sequence Proposal Committee

RE: Advanced Skill Level
 

I think that Advanced is probably closer to Masters than Intermediate as far as difficulty level goes. I don't think however that Advanced should be made easier per se, though I think effort would be better spent making Intermediate more difficult like others have suggested in the other thread. I don't see anything wrong with the challenges of the Advanced schedule in that they give you the opportunity to improve your craft before competing against the 'big guns' in Masters. But that's my opinion. For the record I'm flying Advanced this year.

RE: Advanced Skill Level
 

I'm currently flying intermediate, but am familiar with the advanced pattern and have done most of the manoevers in it. It seems to me to be a reasonable increase in difficulty. Challenging, yes, but that is as it should be.

I don't feel qualified to comment on the step from advanced to masters.

RE: Advanced Skill Level
 

Thanks for the input guys.

I would like some more input on the Advanced...
maybe things you guys would like to see maybe skills you think need to be included...and maybe some you don't think should be in Advanced and left for the jump to Masters.

Thanks

RE: Advanced Skill Level
 

I moved up to advance and had to practice a few manuevers separately before stringing the whole pattern together. I did not have to do that with the new intermediate pattern. I liked the challenge of learning something new. Sounds like you need to make the masters pattern more difficult if it's too close to the advanced in difficutly

RE: Advanced Skill Level
 

Troy,
I have been flying advanced for nearly a year. The first thing I noticed was the increase in rudder skills required and inverted trimming. It is also challenging for geometry, line and pause timing, entry and exit radii. In other words honing the basic skills. The snaps have not been that hard to learn and should have been included in (rather never removed from!!) the Intermediate schedule.
Looking ahead to Masters, there is a nice logical pathway and skill sets there to learn, as it should be.
So as the poll says - "Great where it currently is" - 63% - sums it up pretty well. IE, people like the challenge and would not welcome any reduction in difficulty, maybe even a tad harder. EG a 2 pint roll then reversed, in place of the normal 4 point roll, a rolling 90 deg. turn. The inverted entry push, pull, pull, humpty could use a roll on the up.

Just my 2cW

RE: Advanced Skill Level
 

Troy,

I'll stick my neck out and throw in an opinion. I am a fairly new pattern pilot, with just a few Intermediate contests under my belt. I am working on the Advanced schedule this spring, and plan to compete at possibly three contests in Advanced this summer. I think Advanced is a big step up in difficulty. I had my planes trimmed with very little control surface throw, and find myself increasing it to accomplish the snaps.

The first thing that I noticed was that the snaps are inverted snaps. It seemed odd to me that, at first introduction in the sequences, snaps would be negative. After reading this thread I think maybe the old intermediate schedule had positive snaps? That would make more sense to me. However, as it stands, Intermediate doesn't have a snap. It seems more logical to challenge the pilot with positive snaps, then progress to negative snaps.

The second thing I noticed was the inverted flight segments. There seem to be a lot of them. The inverted segments seem appropriate to me, since sportsman and intermediate prepare a pilot for inverted flight.

I think the best way to define the sequences would be to look at each one and attempt to make relatively equal steps up in difficulty between them. I think this would be best accomplished by breaking down the sequences into parts and comparing them part by part. Then, it would become clearer where additions and subtractions could be made to "equalize" the differences.

Really, I understand that not everyone will be happy, no matter what changes are made. Change always brings out opposing opinions. Those that have practiced Advanced probably don't want a change. If you can change the sequence to make equal differences in difficulty between Intermediate and Masters, then I say go for it. The result will be contests with a more even distribution of pilots in the classes. I think that is good for pattern.

Lem

RE: Advanced Skill Level
 

Troy -
Feedback on the step from Intermed to Advanced - (and from Advanced to Masters)
I did it in '03 and thought it was a big - but NOT unreasonable or terrifying - jump.

It DID take a different airplane setup - moved the CG back slightly, some more throw to get a real snap... the plane flew better after that though...

Lots more inverted flight- good but very tough -
and some very subtle (to me at least) lessons in trimming andairfram behavior upright versus inverted... GREAT prep for becoming a Masters pilot, I think!

The inverted 45 neg snap was a real toughie after the 'modified' Intermediate schedule that dropped the 45 upright snap... that took some dedicated practice... and once or twice I almost killed the plane by pulling instead of pushing... almost...

Imho, the step from the current Advanced to the current Masters is kind of disappointing. Still some new skills to learn but they seem to (pardon the expression) revolve around rolling maneuvers and big old 8's of various kinds... -- overall it doesn't seem as challenging as last year's Masters- nor is it nearly as pretty.

bottom lines:
- I like the current advanced sequence for its challenge and its potential flow.
- I'd like to see the Intermediate get back having a snap in it...
- I could go to another Masters sequence tomorrow and not shed a tear...

That said, flying Pattern -- with these sequences - is STILL the second best way I know to spend an afternoon, or a weekend.

-Rick

RE: Advanced Skill Level
 

Troy: I like the advanced schedule a lot. It is actually a lot of fun to fly... challenging, yes but not too tough. It is a good way to transition to Masters.