RE: Monokote
 

I like that one, infact it's the other way round.
Oracover is German... that says basically everything... it's quite simply in a class of it's own.
What I like about it over Monocote is that it's able to handle far far more heat, you can be quite rough with it without the chance of burning a hole or shrinking to much at the last second.

RE: Monokote
 

Good thing that we have a choice. For what its worth I was less than happy with the level of customer service I received when I called GP to tell them that I had a problem with Monocote. The response was similar and it ended up that I had a problem with the way I used the stuff. Given that I do appreciate that GP monitors this thread and took the time to respond. When it works Monocote results in a beautiful job. Mike

RE: Monokote
 

i have some almost 15 year old red supermonokte(that was the old name some time ago)that i just tried on an old wrecked wing...this is what i know the monokote like ...not the new stuff ..some has change ..no doubt about that!
i have i think 4 rolls un open cheap for sale ...hehehe

RE: Monokote
 

I feel the need to "pile on" this thread as I have been frustrated by the performance of Monokote for some years now.

I have used MK since it was first created, and so I have a long history of product use. I detected a significant change in the performance of MK 10-15 years ago. This may due to the possible EPA-driven formulation change GP refers to. In any event, my experience is exactly as Rune states: the older material sticks, shrinks and stays stuck much better. The new material is much harder to work with, and the "problem" seems to be getting worse--it could be that I am growing more impatient.

The solution for GP lies not in better application instructions, it lies in producing a better product.

Dre

RE: Monokote
 

Yeah im having trouble too with white, bubbles like crazy, when it cools here comes the wrinkles

RE: Monokote
 

:)And still more wood.... burn baby....
I like monokote better than oracover (for those of us with 8 fingers and no thumbs) is easier to get a better result, but of lately i also have found that monokote specially white is a problem and i recall about 4 or 5 years ago a similar thread mentioned the new EPA aproved formula...... so I guess is the EPA fault

RE: Monokote
 

Geez, I love the internet... I've been using monokote since 1970 and have 'accumulated' a lot of it. I grabbed a NEW roll of white recently and became very frustrated very quickly. I guess it wasn't me for once! I also noticed that the white was not truely opaque compared to the 'old' formulation. I'll probably experiment some more (I have lots of monokote). Can you mix and match monokote and Ultracote?? Like Use WHite Ultracote with colored Monokote trim over it?
Thanks,
Will

RE: Monokote
 

Hey Willy I've done the Ultracote base with MK over it using a solvent to tack the MK to the UC. It worked pretty well. Mike

RE: Monokote
 

Hi, guys.... pardon the intrusion .... I've done a few Great Planes ARF's lately, that have been "Covered in Genuine Monokote". Some were not as bubble-free as I would like. As I started touching up these, I realized I was nudging the iron temp higher and higher....Finally, on my "calibrated" iron, the setting that REALLY ironed it down, and to itself, was quite a bit higher than I was used to. Can't tell you what that was, but also the "standard" Monokote heat gun has to be held within 1/4" of the surface and moved pretty slowly to get it to truly "shrink" over open-bays.

I'm only sharing this as it seemed odd to me, but the higher temp settings seems to have worked out.....

RE: Monokote
 

It's wonderful when the marketers of a product are so sure that their product is great and that they can consider their complaining customers incompetent. Those of us who've been competent enough to purchase and enjoy (?) Monokote in the past have now become unskilled - amazing! It's more likely that the marketers staff using / testing the current crop have never experienced the performance of the old - those of us that have don't have the patience to tolerate the current stuff. Of course there are different application techniques, seems that the marketers assumption again is that customers have devised different methods due to laziness - not that the recommended method doesn't work for certain applications (or at all with some product runs).

Having worked in a field greatly affected by environmental regulatory agencies, I can appreciate that forumlation changes are required from time to time. I've yet to see any of this sort of formulary change be totally innocuous to the performance of the product. The trap is that if a degradation of performance is small it may be deemed acceptable, then the next negligible change is OK, and the next. Of course each is compared to the former - only when the current is compared to the original is the difference obvious.

We don't have consumer watchdog groups keeping an eye on the stuff we use. Only through forums such as RCU can we voice our concerns / dissatisfaction, generally derived by costly and frustrating experience. Maybe the marketers hear us - too bad the response isn't "we hear you and will find / fix the problem" rather than a defensive posture. Sorry - I don't care to purchase a product known to have problems, suffer the frustrations the problems cause, and spend a great deal of time exchanging it (probably for some more of the same batch) while defending my competency, even if the marketer defines this as good service. It just goes in the trash while the marketer takes the money to the bank, of course I log the experience and spend elsewhere the next time.

RE: Monokote
 

I have to agree, they seem to be unaware of what has happened to the product. I was instructed to buy one of the Top Flite irons, since they have not changed a thing supposedly. Switching to Ultracote when my stock of old Monokote is depleted. It's really a shame, they don't seem to believe they have a problem.

RE: Monokote
 

A friend of mine who is also building a Brio,recently bought two rolls of Dark Red Monokote. The adhesive side looks like it is full of sand.
Will try to post a photo of it alongside a good piece for comparison.http://image.rcuniverse.com/gallery/...s/lg-45515.jpg

Dave

RE: Monokote
 

I see the problem. You bought the 100 grit when you really wanted the 1000. It's all your fault. ;)

P.S. A little more evolving might help too. :)

RE: Monokote
 

That's EXACTLY what I'm dealing with. but it's a lot more than the red.

-Mike

RE: Monokote
 

Mr. Baxter I contacted you last year about the problems I was experiencing with MK. You used the same explanation then as you are now regarding proper application to ensure a quality finish....well a picture is worth a thousand words...this pic of MK that others have posted before me speaks volume to the quality of today's MK. The symptom seen with the swatch on the right side is exactly what I experienced and tried to convey to you spring of 2005.

Wake up and listen to the consumer for a change....

If you are interested in actual examples of this feel free to contact me offline....

RE: Monokote
 

I saw a similar texture problem with the aluminum color rolls I recently used on a project. Every aluminum roll I got had it. Will post a pic when I get a chance.

RE: Monokote
 

Here's an example of the silver Monokote texture problem. The wood was sanded smooth down to 600 grit, cleaned up with a tac cloth and the Monokote ironed down at 375 F. You can see the adhesive side of the material from the same roll and it clearly shows the problem. It doesn't adhere too well either.

RE: Monokote
 

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It's simple economics, guys. If it no worky-worky. . . stop buying it!!!
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RE: Monokote
 

Your right Keith. It's a good thing we have a choice. Has anyone ever tried 21st Century covering on a pattern plane. A friend of mine uses it on IMAC planes. I've never used it.
The examples shown of the problems with the MK pretty much tell the story. I hope they get it straightened out. In the meantime GP should refund the users without questioning their ability's.
Mike

RE: Monokote
 

In our club last year a friend ordered red monokote (I ordered it for him) and had pretty much the same results posted here, he had some left overs of 10 yr old red mk and it worked fine!!

RE: Monokote
 

I have too agree with the quality problems. I have been using Monokote for years and have always had good luck. The last few rolls I have used were very poor. The colors were off ALOT from one roll to the other. I have never had a problem with color matching in the past. Also if putting on over a solid surface, it looks like there is sand under the covering. On my last model, which was a 1/4 scale so I needed several rolls of covering, the old stock that I had on the shelf worked great. The problem came to life when I purchased the new rolls. Half my model looks great, the other half very poor. You could see the difference in the covering the minute you took it out of the wrapper. Just my two cents worth

RE: Monokote
 

So we all agree that monokote now leaves a lot to be desired. What the best place to buy Ultracote online? Thanks.

RE: Monokote
 

I just stumbled onto this thread . . . . . . I was the one who posted the issue on the NSRCA list. Along with issues already stated in this thread, the other problem that gave me fits is the MonoKote expanding slightly before it started shrinking.

The last time is used MK was in 2001, I covered my El Nino wings and horizontal stab. The technique I used was to tack the MK in a few places with an iron, then use a heat gun and mitt to smooth it down and adhere it to the wood. Worked great, the wings still look good with a lot of miles on them.

On the new Temptation, I tried the same technique, but the MK would expand slightly, wrinkle, then stick before shrinking. At first I doubted my own skills, but after tearing off several failed attempts I resorted to using an iron for the whole thing. It worked, but with the unavoidable marks left by the iron. I would have switched to Ultracote or 21st Century film, but the fuselage is already painted to match MK. From 20 feet away no one will know, but I strive to improve my finish work with each project, this one failed.

I plan on talking to the reps at Toledo to see what they have to say. Maybe I'll bring some of the bad stuff with me for use during a live demo.

RE: Monokote
 

I also plan on bring some of the good monokote to compare to the bad at Toledo.

RE: Monokote
 

Try Econocote. This is cheaper, more pliable, same basic colours and less weight. Requires less heat. Ive used it on 2 different pattern planes and all my sport stuff from 20in span to 2m. Works great for me.
Kiwipaul