RE: Pattern is dead
 

Bob,

there is a pattern meet in Temple, TX this coming weekend...if it close enough, maybe you should come out and visit...

pattern isn't dead in TX....

RE: Pattern is dead
 

I get very confused on this $$ thing. Yeah, someone can spend lots of $$ on planes but Mark Leesburg has, I've been told, a 40% plane with 4 electric motors and all the batteries going into a gear box. Lets talk some $$ on that one. Or compare the electric cost of Pattern to that.

I can buy an Aeroslave Symphony, build it myself, RTF with YS DZ and $100 servos for $2500/3KMax.

My Prestige was much more expensive and am estimating only $3K in it.

I do have a 35% extra that was $3500 that I fly sparingly.

40% planes are in the $7K range.

Is $3K a lot of money, you bet but not compared to some of the other options.

The strange thing is I can still take my pattern planes and go fly circles if I want. They will do some mild 3D. Some will torque roll, but your range of control is lower.

I guess I don't understand the specific issues. I see a 4*40 as being specific to flying holes in the sky(a pattern plane can do that), a Corsair is specific to victory rolls low straffing passes and flying holes inthe sky (a pattern plane can do that, a jet is specific to going fast (older pattern planes could do that, a Jekyll PHD was clocked at our field flying 150mph)

I'm not bashing all these other things, I just see that specificity and $$ as part of the incorrect rumors about pattern. A pattern plane can fly the IMAC sequence. There are people that build Pattern planes just to burn holes in the sky, but smoother and in fact easier. In Sportsman, you can fly what ever you want, long as it fits in 2X2 box. Same as IMAC, except the size is unlimited in IMAC.

However IMAC and Pattern are different. I for one am glad they are different, and have enjoyed both.

Just my thoughts.

ed

RE: Pattern is dead
 

I'm feeling a little ornery tonight so here goes. The $$ argument is irrelevant. Pattern is not too expensive compared to other competitive (IMAC) aerobatic events. Period. It's cheaper than jets and probably not more money that a good heli setup. Check out the results from the big Tucson IMAC event almost everyone even the lower classes flew 35 - 40% planes w/ DA 100 and 150's. If someone has a reason not to fly pattern, just say so but don't say it's too expensive. Also, I have been to probably 15 pattern contests in the last 2 years and have NEVER seen anyone w/ a 2meter plane in Sportsman. All were flying Kaos's or Stiks etc. Certainly not too expensive. When I started flying pattern, I too did not get a warm reception from some people. So what. I did not quit - I wanted to fly pattern, and I would do it with or without their assistance. At my first IMAC contest, I was told by 2 people straight out to "go home - you have no chance" with my GP Patty Wagstaff 24%. Nice intro to IMAC huh? These were 2 people that I have never seen before in my life. So what, I won't say that I hate IMAC just because of these 2 dummies. So people are using the excuse that someone hurt their feelings as a reason not to fly pattern?? Come on guys. If it's boring to you say so. If it's too hard, say so. If you think it's lame, silly, etc etc etc. say so. Just don't make excuses.

RE: Pattern is dead
 

Thanks for the heads up... but I fly out Wed. of IAH to Greenville, SC for the Joel Nall .... heh it's a tough world.

From reading the responses and the locations I think there are hot spots of pattern. Just like IMAC used to be a west coast or southwest thing now it's gotten larger. For "a lot of people" you look at a 2M pattern ship and a 35-40% IMAC plane that cost about the same and the larger IMAC plane has more "appeal".

RE: Pattern is dead
 

I fly both IMAC and pattern, its an easy concept to see.


Cost......
4-5k for pattern
5-9k for IMAC

Motor....
600+ for pattern (YS160)
1500-1800 for DA or 3W 150 IMAC

So IMAC is slightly more expensive so why IMAC?

1. planes look like real planes (public can relate)
2. Planes are larger, and larger does fly slightly easier (notice I didn't say better)
3. Wow factor......more impressive to bring out a 10ft airplane vs a 6ft one
4. Fuel.....at $30 a gallon for nitro vs $3 a gallon for gas
5. Gas engines last years....nitro engines, not quite as long
6. Nitro tends to be harder to start and keep running vs gas
7. Choice of plane material.....wood/composite, both .....better choice in IMAC
8. 3D is primarly done with IMAC type planes, so you can see the benefit.
9. Flight times......Imac planes can fly 20+ mins.....10-12 mins on pattern
10. 2 sequences per rd vs one
11. Magazines devoted to these types of planes selling on store shelves


Its no wonder that pattern is falling (though I wouldn't say dead).

Prime example is this weekend I've got a choice, fly at Riverside IMAC with oh about 50+ pilots and at least 10 in my class
or
Fly in my home town contest with 20+ pilots and most likely 2 or 3 in my class?

I like both, but I like competing against others more.

RE: Pattern is dead
 

Its a sad fact to see precision (pattern) flying is getting less popular, both planes and helis....

I started many years ago with planes, back then pattern flying is the norm.... I still thinks Hanno is god, and those Curare and Magic are sexy....

The last decade I participates actively in heli F3C contests, especially the Worlds. In the heli scene, F3C is dying, less and less people participates, and the brass at FAI knows about this. So they introduces new maneuvers that makes the helis flies like a plane, which further kicks the old guy out, but did not attract much new guys....

Lately, getting a bit tired of the heli scene, I come to planes, but sadly same thing happen to precision heli flying now also happens to pattern planes... Flying buddies at the field despise pattern as they think pattern planes doesn't look like real planes, boring both to fly and look at and too "stiff" feeling...

I guess the "wow" factor pushes people both planes and helis from the precision flying style into 3D style... Spectators like to see planes that hovers, and helis does knife edge... Flight path that we precision fliers preach most does not mean anything to the regular spectators who don't know the schedule... Many times after a practice heli flight I always heard guys comment how boring I am to just hover above the flags and not do some "serious stuffs" with my helis... Now with planes I might hear some comment about the other guy who does a waterfall is a skillful flyer, while no comment on how good the flight path is of the top pattern guy at the field who just flew... Not that I care about what these people says, but I know many who flew precision flying before goes 3D because of words like these...

My 0.2 cent...

RE: Pattern is dead
 

Blackshark...true that. But you have to realize, peoples perceptions on a flight is based solely on what they can see.

People that have never gotten into pattern flying dont understand what they are supposed to be looking at. All they see is a cuban 8. To them every cuban 8 in the contest looks exactly the same.

They arent looking for 15 degrees in the wings, or exit and entry altitude, was it in the box, equal radius, tail wiggles on the stall turns,pitch change before snaps, etc. They've never been taught the finer points of precision flying....so it all looks the same to them. After they see the same thing 20 times in a row...their immediate thought is "this is boring, why dont they do something cool like hover".

The last pattern contest I went to, I printed out 10 copies of the pattern rulebook, including the judging part and all the sequences. I passed out all 10 copies at the pattern contest to spectators. I have no doubt that by reading that information, and the discussions we had while watching the event made it much more interesting. By the end of the contest, many of them were watching the flights closely trying to see if they could "find waldo" and catch the mistakes.

One pilot zero'd a maneuver, and everyone caught it because they now knew what to look for. Pattern is much more enjoyable when you understand it.

Id say competition in general is in a slump due to the small electric stuff gaining popularity and the 3D craze...give it time...as the new guys get better they will start looking for competition. Question is what form of competition it ends up being. I think pattern is going to evolve over the next decade. I think that we are going to see more freedom in the sequences in the form of more maneuvers with "options", an increase in freestyle/pattern mixes, and newer 3D maneuvers being adopted as recognized aerobatic maneuvers.

RE: Pattern is dead
 

Reality check. $4-5K for Pattern is much higher than what it really takes to be competitive. You can do three full blown 2M ships for the price of one 40% IMAC bird. You can get them all in one minivan, no trailer. What's the real cost to have and haul a backup bird in IMAC? Right, get a Dodge hemi and a big trailer.

$250 or so for an OS 1.60, $30 for a pump, $60 for a pipe, 15% fuel. $500 to $600 ARF and you can win a district championship with the right skills. You absolutely can get through the pattern twice, Masters, FAI, whatever, on one tank of glow. I do it all the time with a 20 plus figure sequence, as opposed to the 10 figure sequences in Scale Aerobatics. BTW, 20 min flights generally annoy the heck out of everyone else waiting for you to stop chopping the air with 3D. Not that I don't like 3D flying, but there are some obnoxious habits that get really tiring with 40% birds hanging on the prop all day. Rrrr, Rrr, Rrrr. Impressive. Yes, I can do it too. It got a little boring and took me a while to realize how obnoxious it was to everyone else at the field. Everything in moderation.

I get 15% fuel for a little over $6 / gal, buying it by the drum. Even by the case, it's only $12/gal. Gas at $3 a gal and a good synthetic mix, you are at the $5 mark (this weekend anyway) and you use double to triple the amount per flight as my 2M Temptation does.

Electric is an extremely viable option in Pattern in any class. Yes, that brings the initial cost up alot, but at least you can do it. Noise and huge overflight patterns an issue in your area? Losing fields? You might want electric airplane some day. Maybe an electric pattern plane. Electric viable in IMAC? Not really, not yet. Now then, D1 has 10 pattern contests this year. Now check the NE IMAC page. Oh yeah, I forgot. Pattern is dead.

RE: Pattern is dead
 

Good Points Bob, all,

Regarding the practice field selection - I "could" go to Markham Park, which is a grave-yard of every type of airplane imaginable, or I can go to "Area 51.5" My rule is that if I can fly during the week after work, I will stop at Marckham because there will only be 5-10 guys there in the evening. During the weekend, it is hardly even safe to spectate there. No way in hell would I bring a decent plane there on a weekend (IMAC or Pattern or fun-fly).
Jim W.

RE: Pattern is dead
 

Once again, where do you guys get your $$ estimates???????????

My previous post is FACTUAL, but yet totally ignored in the posts below it. I try to be honest and truthful, and was, but ..... let's ignore that and continue to misstate the numbers.

Sorry I don't know how to do the quote function.

4-5K for pattern is not correct.

Stating a 40% plane is the same cost as a pattern plane is not correct.

I wonder at times when will the rumors and mis-lead info stop.

Granted if you have it built for you, more $$ but that takes the 7.5K IMAC plane up to 9K also.

If we want to compare numbers, come on, lets be truthful and honest. Before thinking I am crazy realize I have done both, know the actual numbers, and build all my own planes, IMAC or Pattern. 6 years ago, I was pulling $25K behind my pick-up to an IMAC contest. That particular year I flew in 16 IMAC/Pattern contests. So let's talk honest $$$ here. I'm game if someone really really wants the truth instead of propagating the continual un-truth.

If you want to compare electric, well you can't unless you look at Mark Leesburg's elect 40% with 4 electric motors and all the electric hardware. plus the gear box etc etc. Let's add in the trailer for most 40% people. I can build 3 FAI quality pattern planes for the cost of 1 40% plane. This is the TRUTH. Fuel, for me ysDZ $15 gal, 8 flights a gal. Gas $2.75/gal, plus oil, with a 40%, 3-4 flights a gal.( still cheaper) Prop strike 40% $80-180 (2 vs 3 blade prop), Pattern $11. I've been there I've done it!!

Let's be honest.

Wow factor, youbet 40% is Wow, and 3D is fun, but most IMAC winners fly like Pattern pilots, just with many more snaps, and less than 1/2 the manuevers in a sequence. Masters has 2 snaps and 1 spin, Advanced IMAC has 1 spin and like 12 snaps (don't remember for sure)

Audience appeal, IMAC/3D has it, Pattern doesn't, agreed. Competitor appeal, both are fun, challenging, IMAC has unknowns, both can win with what you bring in Sportsman (haven't seen a pattern ship in sporsman pattern for some time now, but have seen 40-35% in IMAC sportsman routinely) Both present different challenges, and different manuevers. They simply are not the same, and that should be the bottom line. Both however are aerobatics being judged from a published set of rules and guidelines.

Some parts of the country IMAC is thriving, others Pattern is thriving. This has gone on for the past 10 years. Peaks and valleys in both. That is just the way it is. Some will try one or the other, some will stick, most will not in both!! The why and where fors will be discussed in nauseum infinitum without any clear cut reasons. I have seen poor personal behavior in both disciplines. I have seen cut throat win at all cost attitudes in both disciplines. I have seen Pattern pilots go way way out of their way to help another pilot, but honestly in IMAC this doesn't happen nearly as much, at least in my experience.

This is a lot, but what I see.

Ed

RE: Pattern is dead
 

Divesplat is 100% spot on. Take it to the bank!

RE: Pattern is dead
 

What many are not considering is that folks WILL figure out how to FUND what they WANT TO DO. PERIOD!!! In my half-vast experience in pattern of the past 30 years now (off and on during my military career), I know LOTS of folks who were scraping out a living in the military and somehow could afford pattern. Same with IMAC, more recently. BOTH games are expensive.

Pattern, and IMAC, or Helis, or Scale all take MONEY to do at a certain competitive level. Folks who WANT to do these activities figure out how to PAY for those activities.

The issue of "Pattern is Dead" is an interesting topic that flares up frequently. Pattern ain't DEAD, but it's bleeding pretty badly. And probably for LOTS of reasons, but I would put these two things forward (as if they haven't been said before)....

1. Pattern is "grown" by having pattern-activities (practice, primers, workshops, websites, advertising, promotion) in front of the RC'er who is looking for something after his trainer.

2. Pattern will "Grow" only to the natural limit of the rules and the competition environment. The guy that WANTS to do pattern will FIND pattern (see 1. above).

RE: Pattern is dead
 

Whenever possible, let's consider bringing back the one day contests. Some clubs do it with success . I'm familiar with the long distance drive concerns , the problem with the number of pilots on the flight line , and everyone's wish to have a half dozen flights. I , personally , could live with 3 flights and like having one more day in my weekend to do whatever. In the mid 60s and early 70s, I did on average 10 -14 one day Ukie meets or so a year - flew Stunt , Combat , and occasionally Carrier or Balloon Burst . God , we had enormous turnouts and large groups of spectators- some of whom got introduced to and got into the hobby. Of course , my buddies and I had the energy to pit and run around like crazies; ah youth ! But one day for one event ain't unreasonable and it just might increase pattern participation. Just my 2 cents.

RE: Pattern is dead
 

Whenever possible, let's consider bringing back the one day contests. Some clubs do it with success . I'm familiar with the long distance drive concerns , the problem with the number of pilots on the flight line , and everyone's wish to have a half dozen flights. I , personally , could live with 3 flights and like having one more day in my weekend to do whatever. In the mid 60s and early 70s, I did on average 10 -14 one day Ukie meets or so a year - flew Stunt , Combat , and occasionally Carrier or Balloon Burst . God , we had enormous turnouts and large groups of spectators- some of whom got introduced to and got into the hobby. Of course , my buddies and I had the energy to pit and run around like crazies; ah youth ! But one day for one event ain't unreasonable and it just might increase pattern participation. Just my 2 cents.

RE: Pattern is dead
 

Let's prove Jim wrong, as the CD of the only pattern contest in Colorado, come on out to Crosswinds on June 3 & 4. Pattern contests have the most comrodary we can chat and have fun whereas at other contests I won't mention the type people take it too serious. I have been to a lot of heli funfly's recently and have had the most fun at those. Let's try to bring the fun back to the contests and bring pattern to the front of the pack again.

Larry
Crosswinds RC

RE: Pattern is dead
 

I have built and am flyng an all wood competitive pattern plane that will fly fai for no more than 1200 bucks... and i traded my time and a litl emoey and can fly imac with an investment of 600 bucks.

If you find it interesting and want to learn to fly IMAC or Pattern, you wil find a way that you can afford to learn, grow and enjoy either aspect. Both Imac and pattern have much o ofer, the people are the same.. both helpful, passionate and opinionated, the same if you went fencing, bowling or skeet shooting. Maybe our sport is not dying but often misunderstood and misrepresented by those who think they know what the heck they are talking about and run their mouth based on lack of facts, and their need to feel they know it all.

Chuck

RE: Pattern is dead
 

Hi guys. I’m proud to say that pattern's alive and well in Southeast Wisconsin. Our club just hosted its annual pattern contest this past weekend with a great turnout of 25 pilots. Our CD boosted participation by doing exactly what “aerobob” mentioned above. He even introduced a “Club-Class” at a reduced entry fee for club members only. The more experienced flyers were very accommodating and helpful to the pilots just starting out in pattern. All in all a very successful weekend.

RE: Pattern is dead
 

Pattern is Ballet, IMAC is Break Dancing

RE: Pattern is dead
 

News flash!!!!!!
Pattern in the midwest this year is growing. We had a pattern seminar in Wisconsin two weeks where we had healthy interest by many newbies. We had great attendance from both the Milwaukee contest and the Hearts of Ohio (Columbus) this last weekend.
The D4 vs: D5 Shootout which has evolved into one of the premier pattern events in the US will more than likely reach 50 flyers this weekend at the AMA national flying site in Muncie. At this rate our biggest challenge is becoming how to get in all the rounds to satisfy the ranks.
Pattern here is getting better and the interest level is approaching the old days.
We've put in a real grass roots effort and its nice to see it paying a dividend. Last weekend we had new guys flying Sig Four Stars, Kaos 60's, old T2A's and the like. They seemed to be having a ball.
Mike Mueller AVP D5 NSRCA

RE: Pattern is dead
 

Guys, I've been reading this for a while now, and after my travels, the urge to go back and compete is somewhat red blooded right now. But let me give you some points from someone who can remember seeing patternships before he could walk. Me.

All this malarkey about Pattern and IMAC is just that, Pattern can be seen as being expensive, flown buy people with questionable dress sense, elitist and out and out boring. No two bones about it, and they, are the main reasons that pattern has and I think, always will struggle for people willing to compete. Some may secretly enjoy that elitist vein (as can be shown by the member's only club that aerobob was talking about) and some may have money to burn so the issue of cash becomes irrelevant to them. The dress sense thing I'll just leave well alone :) I think this is always going to be expected in the high echelons of the sport, but new masters flyers are not going to pop up out of the ground like mushrooms.

But lets just throw everything aside for the moment.

Think back to when we all started this hobby. Now if you were told that to set up your first trainer was going to cost you 4 thousand smackers, you'd have laughed, and quite possibly taken up crochet or something, why? Becuase that's a LOT of money to risk on something you've never tried, and a lot of money to blow if you don't like the hobby. With the advent of park flyers and small electric planes and even the F3Ai aircraft, the hobby is coming in easier reach of people who were shy of the costs before. These are the people that will be the next generation of pattern pilots, provided we can make the ititial phase of pattern alluring.

All too often, especially in the lower classes, it's turned into a wallet race, he who has the biggest chequebook wins the round, and that not only browns off prospective, and possibly better, more dedicated pilots from competing but also makes it very expensive to even enter competitively, and as most people will attest to, if you're not getting somewhere it's horribly disheartening. So people who may have been interested in competing in sportsman classes simply wont. They'll go and do something else.


How do we fix this?

I'm totally in agreement of adding a few whizzbang maneuvres to the sportsman schedule, we need to. I few higher K maneuvres would give people something to sink their teeth into, and I dare say that most of the pilots that would be competing would have the skills to do it.

Secondly, the aircraft, I've been thinking about setting up a little "formula F3A" comp in my home state, what is that? It's for those guys, who own all of those 50 sized pattern ships, like venuses, Imagines, Arestis, larks, zen 50's beat on 50's and on and on. These would competitive ships in their own right, but they've really gotta be kept in their own right. This makes it easy to enter for prospective pattern pilots (they have the planes already) and everyone has the sense of competing on a level playing field. Ultimately the scores should relfect the pilots control prowess over his or her model, not the amount of money they've spent.

I'll get back to you on how all this turns out.

RE: Pattern is dead
 

you can hold the costs down if you try

RE: Pattern is dead
 

Might just be "contestant" judging.....[X(]

RE: Pattern is dead
 

Hey Dick

That looks like Robbies car when he went to the Nats.

RE: Pattern is dead
 

After several years of just sitting back and watching pattern, I finally took the plunge and flew in a Pattern contest. I was the guy with the OLD T2-A at the D5 contest held at the Flying Electrons field in Menomonee Falls, WI. I flew in Sportsman and had a blast. I found everyone very helpful including the judges. I have flown competition Sailplanes for over 15 years and I have seen a decline in attendance. I also here that the most expensive plane wins, so I am not going to compete excuse as the reason for the decline in attendance. Guess what, I am part of the problem, I can now longer devote the time to travel to the events. In order to feed my addiction I would travel out of state most weekends to fly. I can no longer devote that much time to the sport. I have always wanted to try a pattern contest but I would have to travel to attend enough contests to make it worthwhile to practice. It is not the cost or the people (bad) that keep me away. 1987 was when I flew my T2-A. The T2-A was an outdated plane the day I flew it. I was very surprised by the reaction from the other pilots. NO one bashed the plane I dragged out everyone I talked to was more focused on helping me with the maneuvers then on the price of the plane. I had a great time and learned allot about my flying skills (or lack of) and with only a few weeks of work I am flying better.

I was checking out the NSRCA web site a weeks before this contest to see what is going on and I came across a Pattern Clinic that was at a local field and I signed up This was the best thing I have ever done in the hobby. I do have a newer Pattern plane in the works but it would not be ready for this event. So I dusted off my T2-A and attended the clinic. This Clinic was taught by Dave Guerin and promoted by Rusty Dose. Great job Guys. I was surprise to find out that my old T2-A would be good enough to compete in Sportsman. So you want to build up Pattern flying? Try talking it up at your club level and let pilots know that the Sportsman Class can be flown using a low cost plane that they may already have. Try doing a clinic for the Sportsman class and try to get the 3D guys interested in Sportsman class. I just set up my Profile Katana to fly the Pattern and it looks great for practicing.

I try to have fun with this hobby and it is just that, a hobby. My family and job come first and if I can’t make the contest circuit please doesn’t count me out and call the sport dead. We all may want to try to promote more events at the home field so pilots won’t have to travel as much but will still have a chance to be coached and judged.

I think Rusty Does (NSRCA Treasure) is on the right track. Thanks for the great effort.


Tom K.
SkyitoutRC.com

RE: Pattern is dead
 

Hey Tom I'm really glad that you enjoyed the contest and Rustys seminar. I thought your T2A was cool. Mike Mueller

RE: Pattern is dead
 

Hiya, very interesting thread but I haven't read it all yet...

I've been an aeromodeller for 15 years on and off, but in the last year or so have found the time to get back to it seriously. Aerobatics of some form felt like the way to go, but which type?

One thing that hasn't been mentioned here (in the bits I've read) is the relation to full-size, which I think has a significant influence on some people (me included). I go to full-size air displays and see guys doing fantastic things with extras and the like; the challenge of making a model perform the same manouvres with the same appearance & presence is just irresistable for me. This is what is driving me toward IMAC style rather than pattern.

Until recently I raced motorbikes (circuit) - we have a similar problem in the UK with numbers dwindling in 125 and 250 two stroke championships, the feeders for motoGP. Everyone (me included) wants to run in the larger displacement four stroke classes because these are the bikes they see around, are familiar with, see most racing on telly etc. The fact that they get there asses kicked by the riders who have come up through 125 and 250 classes and therefore developed excellent setup and riding skills isn't enough to stop those classes dwindling.


If its any consolation, I have just bought a 70 size pattern model because I can see the benefit in using one to really understand trimming and practice the "disciplined" schedules; but I'm doing it with a view to making my IMAC stuff more aesthetically pleasing.

RE: Pattern is dead
 

"Pattern is dead" - I don't think so. My club has quite a few experienced pattern flyers that are very helpful. I find pattern relaxing and never really thought pattern is boring; however, I can see how the average person could be bored. I believe that people find it boring because they don't know the rules or goal of the sport, how it's played. If you went to a baseball game without knowing any rules I bet you'd be bored/frustrated and walk out in no time. It really isn't that intuitive as compared to other sports. I know nothing about tennis but by watching I can figure enough out to make it fun. You can't really do that with pattern because of the nuance.

I am getting into pattern even though I've only been in R/C for a few years and am only 21 years old. There is potential for the new generations to carry this great sport on. I think more people don't take it up because it is complex and seems overwhelming and expensive. It can be done without a 2m aircraft. Heck, I've spent under $600 for my setup and love it. It should take me to the intermediate level if I take care of it. Perhaps I'm just naive, but I don't think so.

RE: Pattern is dead
 

Don't take the "Pattern is dead" comment too literally. The original poster does have a point. The popularity of pattern flying has plummeted in recent years.

The Omaha Pattern championship at Hawk Field went from 34 entries in 2004 to 17 entries in 2005 and then was cancelled in 2006 due to a lack of interest by the designated Contest Director. It will be interesting to see what kind of turnout we get this August.

The point being that pattern competitions and pattern flying in general used to be a big draw five to ten years ago. Now not so much. I wouldn't nail the coffin shut on pattern flying just yet, but 3D flying events, electric flying events, and helicopter contests are all much bigger draws these days.

Newer pilots (particular those of us with discriminating good taste! :D ) will continue to be drawn to pattern flying. It's a time-consuming and difficult discipline that frankly doesn't appeal to very many casual flyers in this day and age. The grace and precision of pattern flying requires a lot of practice in the air and a good deal of effort with regard to airplane setup and trim as well as engine tuning. Most club members these days would rather take a quick-building profile plane and make it flop around like a fish in the sky.

I heard one of the pattern flyers from the Omahawks remark after the board meeting that he went and flew so much on Tuesday that he "got sick of it." I'm sure Claude was half-joking, but those guys put a lot of time and effort into being competitive.

The bottom line? Not too many pilots want to take the time and effort to fly pattern well. Fewer still want to compete, much less take up whole weekends helping to judge and administrate at pattern competitions. Other forms of flying don't require the commitment or the displine that pattern does, so they are rising in popularity while pattern flying ebbs instead.

RE: Pattern is dead
 

Oh boy, I knew somebody from the club would stumble across this! [sm=spinnyeyes.gif]

That's odd. Your post changed completely while I was replying. I agree, the poster does have a point there's no denying that. But let's not be too fatalistic about the state of the sport. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that more people need to inform them selves/get informed about the sport before they cast judgement. As my previous post stated, you wouldn't go to a "physical" sporting event not understanding the game. Why do we expect people to enjoy it even though they have no idea what to watch for?

There's hope. There are young people like myself who are picking this up, granted fewer.

Patience also seems to be an endangered resource today, which is compounding the problem. You get out what you put into the hobby. I try to put in as much as I can, and there's nothing like the feeling you get when you receive so much back. I still swear my heart tries to squeeze through my ribcage when I really nail a maneuver .

I'm using a smaller (cheaper) Brio to practice. I still have the old Joker, but on any downline the thing just turns into a big missle, even at idle. It even sounds like one as it whistles by. Cross controlled inputs won't even create enough drag to slow it down. It just isn't built for today's pattern style (really fun to haul you know what around with though).The wider fuselage of the Brio gives MUCH more control over the downline speed. I've just been going over the Sportsman schedule piece by piece. It's much more fun and rewarding than going up and wiggling the sticks trying to get something that looks cool.

RE: Pattern is dead
 

Something about that doesn't look so legal. LOL

If the motor stuck out the front, and you opened your doors and put the wings and stabs on, you could fly yourself there Dick!!

Chris

RE: Pattern is dead
 

Really good thread. I flew in the pattern wars for years in the SE. This thread brings back memories.

Frank Baity
AMA 38026

RE: Pattern is dead
 

bigedmustafa,

Pattern seems to ebb and flow in different geographic areas. At the Houston Jetero contest this year we had so many pilots (47) that we were only able to squeeze in 4 rounds. Many more and we'd need a facility with two runways.

It’s a shame the participation is currently down in Omaha, but it was also down in Kansas and Oklahoma a few years ago and it's now back with a vengeance. BTW, I just flew with someone from Omaha last weekend at the Turf Fliers club near Tulsa.

As to flying so much you get sick of it… I love Blue Bell Rocky Road ice cream, but if I ate a whole tub in one sitting I'd get get sick of it too. I’ll bet, however, that Claude was itching to get back to the field in just a few days. :D

Still lovin' pattern,
Keith B

RE: Pattern is dead
 

Oh yes, he was back at the field in no time! I don't blame him! :D

RE: Pattern is dead
 

I'm looking forward to pattern flying surging again here in Omaha. Two Omahawks pilots finished 1st and 2nd in the Advanced category down in Tulsa last weekend; I'll give a shout out to Robert and Ron for representing Omaha in such a fine fashion. :)

We have several newer pilots who are working their way through sport planes and learning the basics of aerobatics that are interested in giving pattern a try. I don't really know of any other clubs in the area that are all that active with regard to pattern flying, though.

I guess as long as the Omahawks keep adding new members and introducing new pilots to pattern flying, we'll have a good chance of growing our own ranks of pattern flyers once again. I need to get off my arse and finish building my practice pattern plane. I've got a Thunder Tiger Imagine 50 with a Saito .72 half-finished that has been sitting around my house for so long I'm embarrassed to think about it.

I'm nowhere near ready to compete at even the sportsman level, but I'm not going to get there until I've got a decent plane set up and I can practice flying regularly with something a little crisper than my trusty old sport planes.

RE: Pattern is dead
 

We had our annual pattern contest here in Aurora Colorado last weekend. Showing was down but many people have expressed some interest in keeping it going.

RE: Pattern is dead
 

biged,

That's the spirit! It's amazing what a positive impact a core group of guys can have. Robert and Ron are super guys with a lot of enthusiasm and a pleasure to be around. With such positive attitudes I can easily see pattern growing in your club.

Keith

RE: Pattern is dead
 

I would agree with your assessment if it were about 6 years ago. However, IMAC is not as you describe, at least not in the Southwest. I switched from pattern to IMAC about 6 years ago (actually the southwest JR SCAT series). Now, I am interested in starting pattern again. I enjoy precision aerobatics of all types and I have found that IMAC emphasizes different elements than pattern. One is not better than the other, but they are different. I think if you really look at what is going on in IMAC, you will find that the contests are extremely competitive and intense.

The thing that appeals to me about returning to pattern is that it will be more relaxing and it emphasizes focusing on details and finer points. My precision flying has suffered a bit in IMAC, but the degree of difficulty in IMAC is much higher. Someone once said that comparing pattern and IMAC is like comparing Ballet and Gymnastics. That's a pretty good way to look at it. I started off well in IMAC because I had the extensive pattern background. Now, I am a better overall flier due to the complex nature of the patterns in IMAC and I look forward to honing my geometry skills again.

As far as age group, I think a lot of the younger guys get attracted to the 3D capability of IMAC type airframes and the overall WOW factor. That probably won't change anytime soon. But if a guy is truly serious about competitive aerobatics, then sooner or later he is going to fly pattern.

Steve Hannah

RE: Pattern is dead
 

Ed stop thinking like this, and get your arse out to a competition. The odds are that if you don't think you are ready
now chances are you may never be ready. I have only been flying for less than a year and I competed in my first
pattern event recently, I flew a tiger 60 with a 60 sized engine and was very happy at the end of the day. I plan on
doing 3 more events this season. I think that part of the reason that the event attendance is falling off is that people
don't think think they are ready coupled with the I don't have a good enough plane syndrome. I watched one of the
masters pilots in my club doing six sided loops and vertical lines with a trainer this past weekend.

RE: Pattern is dead
 

I have been flying for 36 years and have never competed or even tried to fly "pattern". I just like to fly pattern ships, my old Kaos 40 is still my favorite. With a 6 channel radio, a 46 engine and basic servos, I don't have a lot invested in it. But I have as much fun as the guys with $2000 to $6000 IMAC type planes. Plus there is the fact that I built the doggone thing.

RE: Pattern is dead
 

Hi There

I have also been flying models of various types - ussually update the model due to unexpected happenings (hahahaha) - but found that just going down to the local field and stooging around without much purpose was boring. I went to visit a field where there are a lot of pattern fliers - compared to none at my field - and was very impressed with the grace and precision of the flying.

I started trying to put aerobatic manouvres into my stooging on Sundays and found that it was quite enjoyable alothough rather hap-hazard to start with!!!! Eventually I was forced into a new plane (as previous mentioned the plane suffered untimely demise) so I bought a cheapo "Scanner" low wing and used my old ASP52 motor and my old 4-channel radio.

I went down to the field where the guys were flying pattern and just asked for help - THAT WAS THE BIG STEP !!!