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I need a pattern starter plane.
I would like to get into alittle or speed and smoother aerobatics, but my planes just wont cut it, I was looking at the Kyosho Oxalys 50 or the Great Planes Venus, that would be running either A OS 46 AX, A TT Pro 46, Or if I have the money a OS 55 AX. But I also kinda want to get out of .40 and move up alittle so I was thinking the Venus II, but I do not have a lot of money to through in this, so I would probably be running a Super tigre engine. What ever I choose I plan to mount the engine 90 degrees with a pitts muffler to keep it tidy. Any suggestions?
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RE: I need a pattern starter plane.
Well, cost is not at all linear, compared to size. No matter what you fly, you need quality servos and radio gear, so that expense is virtually unchanged from the 40 size to a 110 size. If you want to build, a CA Models Epsilon 60 flies well on a ST90. There are a number of 110/120 sized ARF's that fly well and are not overly expensive. If you are not concerned with staying current in pattern ships, the Kaos/Chaos series by Joe Bridi are excellent aerobatics trainers and kits are very reasonably priced from Bluejay Airplanes. No ARF's, though, so you have to build to get one...
http://www.bridiairplanes.com/ Keep in mind that pattern planes are more precise than regular sport planes and are sold to a small niche market, and they cost accordingly. A more expensive aircraft does not necessarily fly better. Much of the benefit/performance of a pattern plane comes from careful building/assembly and trimming. This can be applied to any aircraft you buy and the benefits are always available to those willing to take the time. Mark |
RE: I need a pattern starter plane.
I am partial to the Cermark Javelin II personally. Mine had a YS 63 in it until I took the engine out for another plane. I still have the airframe and would let it go if you were interested. It is a very capable plane for getting your feet wet in pattern.
If you want a bigger plane you could look at the CA Models Widebody 60 or Epsilon 60. It really boils down to what you want to do. You can fly Sportsman and do very well with a KAOS, Venus, Javelin or any 40 size aerobatic plane for tht matter if you prcatice. I flew my Javelin and hten got an Excelleron 90 and from there a Focus. I won't BS you and tell you that the Focus wasn't the best of the bunch becuase it was. I also will tell you that I didn't make a single meet this past year, but had I gone I would not have done well since I didn't have time to practice either. A person who had practiced with a KAOS would have soundly beaten me no ifs ands or buts. If it were me I would get a 40 sized airframe and test teh waters. If you get bitten by the bug and want to get a more "Pattern" type plane then you can move forward, but if you decide it isn't for you then you are not out much and have a nice flying sport plane. Just my $.02 |
RE: I need a pattern starter plane.
So how would you guys feel about this, Venus II, Super Tigre 90, Pitts Muffler, Up graded servos for alierons, rudder, elevator.
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RE: I need a pattern starter plane.
Pitts Mufflers are not mufflers<g>
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RE: I need a pattern starter plane.
ORIGINAL: HitecMan So how would you guys feel about this, Venus II, Super Tigre 90, Pitts Muffler, Up graded servos for alierons, rudder, elevator. Mark |
RE: I need a pattern starter plane.
The Venus II ARF is very nice, but if you'd really like a nice flying pattern ship on a budget, check out the Black Horse Models Bravo 303 MK II:
http://www.americanpioneerhobbies.com/bravo_mark2.html The almost $100 price savings for the airframe would let you spend more money on a top quality engine. The Bravo 303 MK II builds a full 1 to 2 lbs. lighter than the Venus II, so the ST .90 you're considering might actually pull it around with authority. Consider the following shopping list: $179.99 + s&h Bravo 303 MK II ARF $119.99 + s&h Magnum 91A XLS 2-stroke engine $24.99 + s&h Magnum Pitts style muffler for 91A XLS You can add any flight pack you'd like to this with good quality ball bearing servos and have a terrific pattern ship. The Hitec flight packs with the 425BB servos are awfully nice for $99.99, but you'd need to buy two extra servos. You'd have an amazing pattern ship for about $450 + s&h, assuming you already own a transmitter. |
RE: I need a pattern starter plane.
I have an os120AX on my Venus2. Vertical is unlimited with this engine. A 90 might work for sportsman.
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RE: I need a pattern starter plane.
I've seen fellows flying and doing well in intermediate with the Venus2 and a 91.
mines electric and weighs 8lbs ...I can't see a glo model being a pound heavier than that. but it is a nice introductory model for pattern flying. For that matter so is the Venus 40. I have and like em both. ( but the V2 is better);) |
RE: I need a pattern starter plane.
The Exceleron 50 would be a good airframe and they are still available for $150.00
[link]http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/127564.asp[/link] A super Tiger 90 should hall that baby aorund. I run a 70 4Stroke in mine and it's under powerd. I run standard hitech Hs-545BB servo's in it on 6.0 volts and it fly's pretty damn tight. check out Servo City [link]http://www.servocity.com/html/hs-545bb_high_torque.html[/link] Or maybe HS 965 My 2 cents worth |
RE: I need a pattern starter plane.
Whats the build like on the excelloron?
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RE: I need a pattern starter plane.
HI
I have been using the excelleron 90 with an OS120AX and it is an excellent combo. the 90 is an easy build, I used everything except the supplied hinges. Those I changed out with great plane pinned hinges. plane flys well but you need a computer radio to smooth the flying as it can do 3d with the best of planes. The OS120AX works great right out of the box. I can do a knife edge loop, no problem. please note other posts in pattern that the new focus II ently level plane is coming, and I can tell you the Focus II is a great pattern plane. Also, if you go to hobby people a lot and the have a 90 on the shelf offer them $175 to $199. I got my last one at $175.00 !!! |
RE: I need a pattern starter plane.
I have the venus 40 and the bravo 303 Mk II, my thoughts are:
Bravo 303, reasonable kit, rubbish hardware, bit overpriced, fuel tank placement is a joke way too high.....move it down to match the motors needle valve. I have a ST90 and pipe on mine and its not quite unlimited vertical, but pretty close, knife edge is also weak, . Flys well slow.....but...Buy the Venus! I have a 50SX in mine and its got unlimited vertical, rolls neutrally and will knife edge all day....great little plane.... Cheers W |
RE: I need a pattern starter plane.
I've flown:
Venus II Excelleron Bravo Quest 3D Showtime Of the bunch, I liked the Quest the best, but it isn't currently available. I had an ST 90 in mine with a Mueller header and a Mac's 1090 Quiet pipe, fuel tank near the CG and a Perry pump, and it pulled it like nobody's business. On the standard ST muffler, the ST 90 was a dog with a capital D. The 90 REALLY comes alive with a Macs Quiet 1090 pipe. Forget the Pitts muffler. Lots of noise and no power. Second is the Venus II. I did a review on it in the last RC Report magazine. Really needs a 1.20 AX, and move the tank over the CG with a Perry pump. An ST 90 on a pipe might be ok. Excellent airplane, top quality hardware, fast assembly, and easily does all patterns at least thru Advanced. Slows very nicely on downlines, much like a widebody airplane. Moved the CG back on mine until it only slightly pulled to the canopy after rolling inverted on a 45 degree upline. I'm currently putting a header and pipe on my 1.20 to get more vertical and so I can run a little more prop pitch for a little more speed in windy conditions. This airplane will last a long time with proper care. Excelleron is next. Control surfaces are way too big, so throws need to be reduced to almost nothing for patten use. Watch out, as a club member in my area got one with a badly warped wing, and the importer refused to do anything about it. Another guy in our club has one, and it flies great on a YS 1.10. In fact Mike Hester flew it in Advanced at our local pattern contest, and won a couple of rounds with it. Bravo is ok, but a little small, but flys well on a OS 90 surpass on 30% heli fuel. Poor hardware, design lacks a little. Friend had one and I flew it some. If you are really on a tight budget, this or the Excelleron may be your best choices. Showtime looks good on paper, but I was REALLY disappointed as far as using it for pattern. Tail moment is a little too short, and surfaces are WAY too big. Aileron throws have to be reduced to almost nothing, as at even their recommended low roll rates, it rolls so fast it is a blur. Best thing to do is get an airplane, and fly it to death, so a dependable engine and equipment setup is a must. Get with a local guru to help you with airplane setup and practice. Fly as often as you can, at least 3 to 4 days a week in the summer. Get to know the traits of your airplane and how to make it present the best for your pattern. Practice straight and level flight and half cuban and half reverse cuban turn arounds until you can do them in your sleep and rudder correction for straight lines is natural, and you KNOW absolutely when your wings are level. I still have to practice these a lot, as they are the foundation for everything else. Jon |
RE: I need a pattern starter plane.
1 Attachment(s)
Jon,
I would agree with your post. The only info that I would add is that there should be a new Quest in a month or so. Very similar to before but with plug on wings and stabs kinda like the Evolution - kinda! One observation is that the weakness that I am finding in the 90-110 arena is the support equipment for the 2-c's. The new YS 110's are friendlier to use and have new power that can even handle the old 1.20 size props. They give a super power-to-weight ratio and. more importantly, have tons of engine-support equipment. You can use a lot of the available 140 headers and mufflers etc. The only thing you need to set are the high- and low-end needles! When it comes to OS AX's an FX's and the like etc. which are popular in local clubs you are almost on your own. Most of the guys that are into pattern are not using them, so you don't have a vast army of support knowledge for side-exhaust header mounting, pipe lengths, engine tuning and general operation in a pattern airplane. Sure the trimming knowlege is there. IMHO the way to change this is to set a "limit" in the lower classes, or run a class within a class for smaller planes. Basically design it so that it becomes cheaper and less complicated to enter pattern. If you get hooked on pattern you will find a way to buy-up into the harder classes, it is our nature to do that. If you want a taste without buying the restaurant we need a NEW PLAN!!!! Regards, Eric ORIGINAL: jonlowe I've flown: Venus II Excelleron Bravo Quest 3D Showtime Of the bunch, I liked the Quest the best, but it isn't currently available. I had an ST 90 in mine with a Mueller header and a Mac's 1090 Quiet pipe, fuel tank near the CG and a Perry pump, and it pulled it like nobody's business. On the standard ST muffler, the ST 90 was a dog with a capital D. The 90 REALLY comes alive with a Macs Quiet 1090 pipe. Forget the Pitts muffler. Lots of noise and no power. Second is the Venus II. I did a review on it in the last RC Report magazine. Really needs a 1.20 AX, and move the tank over the CG with a Perry pump. An ST 90 on a pipe might be ok. Excellent airplane, top quality hardware, fast assembly, and easily does all patterns at least thru Advanced. Slows very nicely on downlines, much like a widebody airplane. Moved the CG back on mine until it only slightly pulled to the canopy after rolling inverted on a 45 degree upline. I'm currently putting a header and pipe on my 1.20 to get more vertical and so I can run a little more prop pitch for a little more speed in windy conditions. This airplane will last a long time with proper care. Excelleron is next. Control surfaces are way too big, so throws need to be reduced to almost nothing for patten use. Watch out, as a club member in my area got one with a badly warped wing, and the importer refused to do anything about it. Another guy in our club has one, and it flies great on a YS 1.10. In fact Mike Hester flew it in Advanced at our local pattern contest, and won a couple of rounds with it. Bravo is ok, but a little small, but flys well on a OS 90 surpass on 30% heli fuel. Poor hardware, design lacks a little. Friend had one and I flew it some. If you are really on a tight budget, this or the Excelleron may be your best choices. Showtime looks good on paper, but I was REALLY disappointed as far as using it for pattern. Tail moment is a little too short, and surfaces are WAY too big. Aileron throws have to be reduced to almost nothing, as at even their recommended low roll rates, it rolls so fast it is a blur. Best thing to do is get an airplane, and fly it to death, so a dependable engine and equipment setup is a must. Get with a local guru to help you with airplane setup and practice. Fly as often as you can, at least 3 to 4 days a week in the summer. Get to know the traits of your airplane and how to make it present the best for your pattern. Practice straight and level flight and half cuban and half reverse cuban turn arounds until you can do them in your sleep and rudder correction for straight lines is natural, and you KNOW absolutely when your wings are level. I still have to practice these a lot, as they are the foundation for everything else. Jon |
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