Carf Integral trimming thread
 

Hi,

I thought; since we already have this great building thread, i would like to start a trimming thread , so we all can shear our experience ...

In the past, i have been a kind of unpatient with this issue. I have started with the FAI P-schedules with planes that was not properly set ... There`s a lot "for-free" if things are done right for your likings ... So now i will spend a lot more time for this and try to find the compromise that i like.

Well, i have just started to fly my Integral , and now i have been driving shuttle between my home and the flying field for testing and adjustment`s ...

The CG is set at 185cm, and i feel it is very close to my liking. I will play a little more with it , but i feel it is close enough to continue the basic testing`s ...

The first thing that had to be solved was the sidethrust. After several adjustments ( relocation of the engine mount) i ended up with 4 deg ... (The molded angle in the nose is measured to 2 deg) in other words twice the thrust. A great amount i must say, but now it is ok.
Personally i do not like to mix this kind of fault electronically , cause sometimes this faulty sidethrust give some "side-effect" also. So; as a bonus for the corrected sidethrust , the rudder to elevator couplings almost dissapeard! . There are still some small corrections to be done, but now it is "within limit". Anyway,It`s fine when one problem solve the other ...

This is as far have i get, and next i will continue with the basic setup , and then the F-1 setup for the P-09 schedules.

Kjell Olav

RE: Carf Integral trimming thread
 

Are your Integral Glow or Electric?
How did you fill about wing/stab angles ?
Have you used the fixed wing and stab or chose to replace the fixed wing to wing incidence adjusters?

RE: Carf Integral trimming thread
 

Hi DV,

Mine is powered by YS160 ( 16,5 X 12W ).

I am using the original attachments for the wing and stab ...
As far i can feel now, both the wing and stab incidence seems ok .. I guess further testing will show, but i leav it for now.

Kjell Olav

RE: Carf Integral trimming thread
 

This should be a great thread, I look forward to reading more.

About the right thrust added....this is a very personal thing. I have found that as you add more right thrust to improve uplines and positive manuevers the negative stuff suffers. There will always be a compramise based on how the pilot likes the airplane to feel. I am horrible with the rudder for inverted entries so I like a bit less right thrust to help so I am normally set-up to hold a little right in uplines and a bit more for pulls but only a little left is required for negative manuevers.

Colin.

RE: Carf Integral trimming thread
 

Hi,
Trimming issues are interesting stuff ..
It`s all about compromise, and i like to see how other pilot`s do to deal with it .. Many different setup`s work fine, and i like to play with them to discover things i was not aware of ... For me this is a way to get further in my skill ..

My sidethrust ; This is for sure a compromise issue ... Airspeed , load , prop etc does play a major thing ...
Mine was of the scale ; I did some initial test first and in fact It did a 90 deg "flat-turn" within 400 feet radius in level cruising- speed ... Then i did some more initial test to exclude other things that could contribute to this fault, but the rest seems nice and straight ..

So, step-by-step , increasing the side-thrust, continuing the test like uplines/downlines in different airspeed/ engine load , and within a "normal size" for a typical P-schedules manouver, i found a good compromise ... In fact, the Integral track very nicely with a good "lock-on" feeling ..

Kjell Olav

RE: Carf Integral trimming thread
 

... more flight`s today, in calm condition`s, perfect for trimming!

So, i played more with the CG by temporarily fasten weight for easy adjustment`s between the fligth`s .. Actually i tested between 175 to 190cm and ended up with 180, at least for now ..

This gave a slightly push for inverted 45`, "non-stick" for upright 45`. The vertical upline are dead-on, and a slightly pull against cockpit in down-line. The last one need just some few deg thr to elev mix.

Then; when setting both the engine thrust and the CG for my liking , i performed the P-07 and some additional "stunt`s" ,and i must say this is the best i have flown so far .. no bad habits, not at least what my skill can find ... There are just some few minor adjustments needed , mostly for your own liking , finding your personal setup etc ... hmmm, compared to my Impact, which i think is a good flyer too, this is something quite different to the better.

RE: Carf Integral trimming thread
 

... More testing today ...

Now i feel that the "hardware" stuff are fine , and in fact it was only the eng-thrust that needed adjustments ...

So now the software stuff ; and the hard part !. There are so many possebilitys and different set-ups that work, and in fact this is a "adjust and test" thing ... and often i just do not see the solution , i just need someone to judge ...
But the good thing is that everything can be set back if you don`t like it !

I started with the aileron diff adjustment, and tried to "overshoot" both directions to find a proper setting ,and finally ended with - 7 %. ( The actually travel deflection )

Then the elevator, ;10% more down than up.

Rudder to elevator ; right rudder dead on, left rudder needed som few deg up-elevator and few deg left aileron. Not much, but anyway, easy to fix ( maybe i will try a non-linear mixer later )

Now i have started to play with snap`s and spinn`s and i guess i need more time to get this right cause this one require a more "aggressive" setup than my "usual" setups, specially the snap`s. In general; both the manouver`s are very accurate, like entry and exit`s, and i must admit i did some inspections of the airframe after those really agressive snap`s ... :)

Kjell Olav

RE: Carf Integral trimming thread
 

Hi,

Some more flights since last time ...
This time of year ,most people put their "pride and joy" on the shelf until April/may next year, except the " wanna-bees" like me :). The goal is to set the craft up for the P-09 before end of year!

The snaps seems ok for now, by using the same elevator throw as the normal mode , 50% more aileron and 15% less rudder. ( compared to normal mode). Relatively high airspeed make the snap nice and crispy. Do anyone have experienced the same/other setup ?

Now i will play with non-linear mixers to avoid too much influence in other manouvers when this mixing is not required. In the past i have ignored this, but now i struggle too much with corrections etc cause by this, so i better sort it out at once.

I hope the snow will come late, or not at all, so i got a flying start next seasons event`s ! :)

Kjell Olav

RE: Carf Integral trimming thread
 

Hi Kjell!
i had the same on my Oxalys but i also made the idle so that when i took it idle it was some % more ....weak explaining.... but that gave me the right speed each time ....havent had time to set up the Good shot this way yet !

RE: Carf Integral trimming thread
 

... seems i`am in the right track then ...

In the past, i have been way off ... Actually it was at Løtencup ( P-07 comp) i was told that my snap`s was zero`s score, because i didn`t stall the entry ( only 20% elevator, 20% rudder ) and the Impact in fact did only a fast straight roll ... well, that`s the thing about showing up at competitions ; better than months ( years) with practice alone !

What about your spinns, how is your deflections compared to normal modes ?

RE: Carf Integral trimming thread
 

same as normal mode but more elevator...but spin is wery dirfrent from model to model ...think that is the wing load

RE: Carf Integral trimming thread
 

Ok, that`s the same as i have now ... The entry is very sudden, compared to my previous models. I am used to provoke the entry and then decide which direction i want it to spinn. Now, i must "hang-on" to the direction it start to turn by itself ...

The Impact did also a nice spinn, but was hard to stop. I believe the heavy wings did contribute to this.