Scale planes for pattern
 

Having decided to use a scale like plane (67" Extra 330 S) to learn pattern, I was recently thinking about my trip to TOC last year. I watched these world class TOC guys, some of which are world class pattern guys, fly what I and the judges thought were near perfect F3A pattern maneuvers. It was truly fantastic the way they could fly a disciplined pattern routine and then turn on the music and put on an incredible 3D show. My point is, why don't we break the mold and start using scale like aerobatic planes to fly the pattern maneuvers and get away from the look-alikes that everyone is currently using. Lets face it, all of the pattern planes do look alike (2 x 2 wide bodies), except for some beautiful paint jobs, but none of them have a full scale counterpart. Full scale, FAI aerobatic competition uses Caps, Extras, Sukois, etc; and these plane have to fly compulsury, precision maneuvers. Why shouldn't RC pattern be doing the same. I know there is IMAC, but it is not precision, turnaround pattern. Anyway, I thought this might be an interesting point for discussion.

Scale planes for pattern
 

To me, F3A is those beautiful look a like planes, and scale is IMAC. F3A is meant to be as accurate and majestic as possible, within the rules. This means that the plane takes up the form to best fit the job. By using scale planes, you will get rid of some of this, and thats why it is not used as often IMO. However, there have been a few guys using scale planes in the past. Walking by the pits in the W/C, I saw a Giles flown by a Norwegian, and an Extra, from I don't know where. There is nothing of course, stopping you from using a scale plane, and it might be refreshing to see it. At our level, chances are it won't make a difference, and you will get some good fun out of it. Its also interedting to note that CPLR 'broke the mold' (well, sort of), with the Caprise, which resembles the Cap. That is still IMO one of the nicest F3A planes out there.
My 14c.
Robert.

Scale planes for pattern
 

Actually, IMAC is precision aerobatics and turnaround. You enter the box once and you exit the box at the end.

To watch a skilled IMAC pilot will from a distance not look any different than a skilled Pattern(AMA) pilot.

The judging downgrades on IMAC are actually more severe than Pattern. IMAC is 1 pt for 10 degrees variation and Pattern is 1 pt for 15 degrees variation. Both score for wind corrected manuevers, both score the center manuevers from a center point directly in front of pilot, and both have a box with penalties for going outside the box, although Pattern is tougher on this one.

Having competed in both, the Unknowns are the true difference. As well as the planes. I love both of them so try to have a realistic and unbiased opinion of them.

Pattern planes are inherently smoother, more graceful. The big IMAC planes can be flown this way, but more snaps in a sequence makes it seem more harsh. There is some difference in the naming of the manuevers, but over all the same stuff. See me signature.

Won't go into what I consider the really down sides as trying to be positive here and they are argued plenty on other threads.

All of this is to say am glad there is a place for both. Practicing for both disciplines also helps to keep me fresh and not burnt out per se.

Ed

Scale planes for pattern
 

First of all scale planes are for IMAC, there isn't anything that fly's as good as a pattern plane, I understand that you are just starting out, but if you look at the TOC then you will see that all the top pilots has came from pattern not IMAC, pattern is more involved that just buying a scale plane and flying it, it is the R&D of flying, these designs have came from over 40 years of testing to achieve the most precise flying planes in the world, as for as looks that's like saying that a cap and a extra look alike, as for as pattern designs go they are beautiful, graceful, and even elegant, they are a place to show your artistic designs and have been the backbone noise control for many years.
In conclusion if you want to fly and see scale planes do aerobatics then IMAC is what you want, if you want the freedom of design, creativity, and artistic skills of the best flying machines then pattern is the way to go.
Steve Maxwell

Scale planes for pattern
 

Thanks for the great inputs. All are appreciated. My first pattern contest is in dayton at the end of May. Lets hope by then I can fly a straight line! By the way, at the two different fields where I fly, hardly anyone is interested in any form of precision in there flying; their planes are all over the sky. I have found that by trying to fly a line, do decent turnaround maneuvers, and use the center of the box, I am enjoying my flying more. Also, I have not had a single crash since I started doing this. You are just in better control of the plane.

Scale planes for pattern
 

Divesplat: Very well said, I have done both, and I agree with your points 100%. I wish they had Message Board awards for saying what needs to be said without starting a flame war. Personally, I saw this thread starting and figured it would be locked in short order.

Patternrules: How well something flies is very dependant on the pilot. [I] happen to think a well built 40% Scale Aerobatics aircraft flies a lot better than the latest pattern designs. Not because the designs are very different, but because they are so much larger. In my book, bigger flies better. In your book, more pattern like flies better. We are both right. Each individual needs to fly both and then decide what fits his/her thumbs the best.

Richardfast: the best part of competition is the camraderie. A bunch of guys with similar interest spending the whole weekend together - at all the contests I have been to, it doesnt matter <what> you fly, everyone is happy you decided to show up. Its awesome. And the added benny of becoming the most disciplined flyer at your local club doesnt hurt ;)

Roger

Scale planes for pattern
 

Robert, the ZN cap is basically a cap minus all the special features (read: problems) of the cap (like the mounting of stab & wings on the fuselage). I have watched quite a few videos (ok, videos don't serve justice to flying) from TOC and such events, and I personally think it's very boring to watch. People roll 'too far', lines are not parallell etc. Some of this is certainly because I've only been watching it on video, however, the flying style in IMAC is very different than that of pattern, and hence, the planes are also different. The reasons for me liking pattern more than IMAC is just personal taste and the things I'm used to..