RE: Blue head Hanno
 

Probably due to the number of questions he was getting.... I sent him a list of questions too and found out it was not an original head, sleeve or piston. Bearings were probably not stainless, etc. Because of the increased bore, the original head would no longer fit the top of the sleeve correctly so they used a head from some larger OS engine. Basically, it was a Hanno case, pump, carb and shaft. Everything else was 'hopped up'.

Woodie

RE: Blue head Hanno
 

I just picked up a Hatori 650 which apparently has dimensions of 395x40 mm.

I checked Hatori's site which no longer lists the 650 but lists a 668 of dimensions 393x40 mm:

http://www.hatori-models.co.jp/htdoc...image/668.html

There are some figures which appear to be tach reading in the photo but actually are costs in Japanese Yen.

By comparison, the current 700 has dimensions 435x40 mm:

http://www.hatori-models.co.jp/htdoc...image/700.html

Also, For reference the current 45 pipe (e.g., for YS 45), the 400, has dimensions 366x35 mm:

http://www.hatori-models.co.jp/htdoc...image/400.html

I'm wondering if the difference of 40 mm between the long chamber 650 and the super long chamber 700 is the required increase in length in going from 12 to 13" props. Or perhaps, if the 650 was intended for the Hanno Mk I and the 700 for the Mk II. The 601 is listed as short chamber - perhaps for the old Rossi's @ 14K+?

Any thoughts?

David.

P.S. Terry, apparently Tower claims the red Hanno pipe (which I thought was a red anodized 700) is 476 mm (18-3/4 in) in length! Hatori lists no such pipe but perhaps that's not surprising.

This is a handy index:

http://www.hatori-models.co.jp/htdoc...e/Ftopsho.html

RE: Blue head Hanno
 

Geez, The mystery engine is gone before we resolved any of this... By the way, the seller indicated the displacement was .67 with a 1mm increase to the bore and that he used a replacement piston/sleeve from Performance Specialties (Dave Shadel). That statement was a 'red flag' for me as I doubt Dave (or Henry) would have taken the time to produce a custom size for just one engine. Plus, the displacement limitation for 2-strokes was not lifted (by the FAI) until after the Hanno was already out of production. As for the the 'blue head', I suspect it is an anodized head from a stock (non Hanno) RF engine; I do like the color :)
OK, some information:
DIfferences between the MKI and MKII ABC (ok ABN) versions of the Hanno Special:
Head; connecting rod; piston pin retainers; mixture control valve assembly - This is taken directly from the part numbers listed on the instructions for the two engines. Also from the original instructions regarding the MKII:
'The "HANNO SPECIAL II" has been specifically developed to meet these requirements <operational rpm of 9,000 - 11,000> and also takes into account the need to achieve greater durability through improved resistance to crankshaft and main ball-bearing corrosion that may occur under the severe operating conditions of highly competitive FAI turn-around aerobatic flying'
The MKII version of the Hanno had no changes made to improve power and without knowing the serial number of the engine would be impossible to differentiate from a MKI. As for serial numbers: I have never seen a MKI version with a number above 5000 nor have I seen a MKII version with a number below 6000 or above 7000. I have not seen any Hanno Specials with a serial number in the 5000s. I have not seen any Hannos with serial numbers from 1000 to 1999, either, but I'm sure they exist. Originally I assumed that OS manufactured the MKI version from serial number 1 to 4999. The MKII series then started at 5000 and went to 6999. At most it appears that OS only made 7,000 Hanno Specials and perhaps significantly fewer. I believe only somebody from OS can resolve that question conclusively. The market for pattern specific engines is pretty small even on a world-wide basis.
Any questions? ;)
-Will B.

RE: Blue head Hanno
 

Very informative flywilly. Thanks.

Do you suppose Bax might have some Hanno serials and production volume insight given their distribution relationship with OS? I know it's a relatively new agreement (compared to the age of the Hanno's) but they do have documentation.

David.

RE: Blue head Hanno
 

Heees Baaack! http://cgi.ebay.com/OS-HANNO-SPECIAL...1%7C240%3A1318

With a little better description this time.

RE: Blue head Hanno
 

There is another engine seller over there who often lists conversions of OS .61 engines to .65 or so using Rossi .65 P/Ls. He does describe the mods (boring the case, etc.).

Terry in LP

RE: Blue head Hanno
 

Hey All.

Here's the skinny on the .67ci Hanno.

The RF case will take a VF/RF-N piston and liner and the SF case will take a FSR/SF-N piston and liner. In the case os the SF it's a reall tight fit.

The SF and RF liners have the same outside diameter as the the FSR/VF and SF-N/RF-N liners.

61 VF/FSR bore is 24mm, and the stroke is 22mm
61 RF/SF bore is 23mm, and the stroke is 23mm

Using the a 61 VF/FSR liner and piston with the 61 RF/SF crankshaft results in
a bore of 24mm and a Stroke of 24mm with a 0.66256 ci displacement.

Increasing the the bore 1mm results in a square engine. Bore and stroke the same. Anybody remember the Chevy 327 engine?

As far as the Blue head I looked at the OS engines Timeline gallery and there was an OS 65RSR with a blue head. If the guy selling this engine says that the head was custom manufactured, Ok. If it's the 65 RSR head I believe it would have had to be turned down to fit a 24mm bore.

In order for anyone to do this conversion all you would need is a VF liner and piston combo, a rear exhaust piston pin, and a VF/FSR or RF-N/SF-n round head to match the bore.

Most importantly the blue headed engine Is Not a Hanno!

For those interested check out this post for more info - http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=8156324

Bryan

RE: Blue head Hanno
 

I'd still sorta like to have it. The gentleman that taught me to fly has two Hannos. He's always bragging about how fast they are. I'd love to show up with that one and (hopefully) show him what fast is all about.:D I imagine it will go for way more than I'm willing to put in it, though. My bringing it to you guy's attention sort of killed any chance of getting it cheap;)

RE: Blue head Hanno
 

Build your own!

I still see 61 SF-P's on the bay. I actually converted one of my 61RF-P's. The 61 Hanno carb throat is smaller then the 61 RF-P's only because it was design to operate at a lower RPM. The 61 RF-P carb throat is way larger for higher RPM's and the carb rotor is a butterfly style vs the round throat style of carb rotor. The RF-P carb is huge compared to any other 61 of this era.

I put in a 61 VF ABC liner & piston, piston pin, 61 VF/FSR crankshaft and 61 VF/FSR head on the RF case. Everything lines up perfect even the headbolt pattern is the same. This little fact was due to the limited run of 61 RF-N/SF-N short stroke enignes OS made as they where the same bore and stroke as the VF and FSR's. Mostly seen as heli engines.

Bryan

RE: Blue head Hanno
 

i copied and pasted most of this post to him.

RE: Blue head Hanno
 

HI i am the guy selling the blue headed hanno. i find it had to beleive some of your statements in this chat page.A vf sleeve does slide into a hanno case. but the ports do not line up.Think about it for a second. there is a 22 mm. stroke compared to a 23 mm. stoke. the closest i got the configuration to work was a fsr rod(shorter than the hanno or rf) a rfn piston and a fsr or vf sleeve. But at BDC. the piston was an eighth of an inch below the exhaust port. Now i suppose i could report the sleeve, lowering the bottoms of the boast , transfer and exhaust ports. but guess what,now i have a pylon time hanno or rf. but you know what i think i will do it .And as for the person who made the statement i was some way embarrassed the dude is wrong.i was going to keep the engine because it is a good runner with good power and throttle response.and because i do not like having to one finger type the same crapp 20 f,in times a day.
Now as for the sleeve. i was told it was a specialty sleeve by shadel. Maybe it is not. But one thing i do know is it is not some other stock sleeve from a rossi picco os etc. The sleeve timing is to perfectly matched to the ports , all of them . Secondly the timing of the ports is intended for a low rpm. What rossi do u know of that was timed as a tractor. SO inending i am new to ebay and i do want to end the sale of my blue hanno.Could one of you guys tell me how to go about this. my email is [email protected] thank you
EH maybe i will take the hanno apart a take pictures of it to show you guys.maybe i will do that tonight as i am going to be at my shope replacing rings in my 130 twin saito.

RE: Blue head Hanno
 

sorry guys that is a 22 mm stroke(fsr sr vf) as apposed to a 24 mm stroke(rf sf hanno)

RE: Blue head Hanno
 

Nitro,
Sorry, didn't mean to offend you so I apologize. I didn't read your original description. I do think that you had a hanno, but my issue is that there have been so many things changed on it that I find it hard to believe that you can sell it as a Hanno. If OS were still selling this engine, with all the mods you've done, would they warranty it? If they won't, then I don't consider it as a Hanno.

RE: Blue head Hanno
 

well considering the original OS sr 61 was evolved into the 65 vr df and then the vr df .77. ALL USING THE ORIGINAL 61 ROD. i would have to think the modifications done (piston and sleeve) would not over stress the engine. Keep in mind that the .77 vr df turned up to 22000 on the ground, not 10200.

RE: Blue head Hanno
 

I'd like to offer my apology, too. I started this thread because I wanted to see if any of these guys had ever heard of a blue head Hanno. I was extremely interested in it, and wanted to know what I was going to bid on. When I asked you if it was original, the response I got from you was a tad less than cordial, bordering on insulting. By the way, if you plan to sell very much on ebay, you might better get used to lots of questions...especially if you're gonna sell something like the Hanno. There is a lot of interest in such things, but there are also a lot of guys out there that know quite a bit about such things. Questions are just a normal part of doing business on ebay.

RE: Blue head Hanno
 

well maybe i am a little bit crabby. but at the same time i do not screw people. and if i had any idea that something i was selling was going to be a problem for someone , i would not sell it.

RE: Blue head Hanno
 

and as for roguedog, well no ofence intended, but you should lay of those canadian brownies

RE: Blue head Hanno
 

and just like in NASCAR it is not cheating until u get caught. THIS IS IN RESPONSE TO FLYWILLY . the comment about the limitations to displacement not being lifted.

RE: Blue head Hanno
 

i would like to thank nitrobill65 for accepting my invitation to join this discussion. throughout our discussion over on fleabay it obvious he had some serious knowledge about his engine. it would only be to our advantage to invite him to this thread so i invited him. i'm glad he accepted the invite. we can only gain more knowledge by him sharing.

RE: Blue head Hanno
 

I accept that, but you need to understand my side, too. At the time, you had 0 points. A brand new seller. I had no way of knowing how honest you were....so I asked questions...

RE: Blue head Hanno
 

that is a good point. i didn't notice that. with the 'protection' that fleabay forces upon you i tend to not worry as much as i used to.

RE: Blue head Hanno
 

What 'protection' is that? You must be dealing with a different auction site than I have been for the last several years. They 'say' they'll 'protect' you but that's pretty much just a sales pitch with no teeth. Been 'protected' more than once over there.

Terry in LP

RE: Blue head Hanno
 

Hey nitrobill65. No offense, but I don't even like canadian food. :D

I never said a bad word about engine your so chill dude. All I said was it's not a Hanno. It very well may be in a Hanno Case with a shadel liner, and may indeed run stronger and turn a larger prop and I think that's way cool, but Hanno's were designed to run very differently. They were tuned to provide best power at a RPM range of 9,000 to 11,000 and to swing a larger prop then the standard 61 short strokes for less noise.

Read this - http://www.rcmmagazine.com/issues/re...021987-1-1.pdf
for basic SF/RF longstroke info
and
Read this for the Hanno.
http://www.rcmmagazine.com/issues/re...081990-1-1.pdf

I would like to know the ID of the liner and the OD of the piston as this would clarify what is actually the bore of your blue headed beast. Get out a set of calipers measure it then say so. Until you do all this is theoretical and academic.

The only problems that I can think of with what your selling is
1. it's definitely one of a kind and if it runs lean it's all over for it, e.g. no standard replacement parts. I see standard Hanno parts from time to time on the bay, but very rarely. A bunch of us here on RCU recently, with the help of flywilly, were able to get a limited run of Hanno liners. I would say this if I were selling it.
2. I would be very careful running high nitro in it unless acurate bore and stroke were known. Would mention this as well if I wasn't sure of the Bore and Stroke and volumn of the combustion chamber.
and
3. It is kinda misleading to call it a Hanno when it's really a modded RF with a Hanno pump and carb.

I had a typo the RF/SF stroke, although in the very next sentence I stated it correctly. Also added some info for clarification.

RE: Blue head Hanno
 

i owe roguedog an apology . the sleeve does fit and match the ports pretty well. the problem lies in the stroke.i ordered a rfn ringed piston from tower hobbies thinking it was a 23 mm bore.so seeing it was a 24mm dia. i grabbed a fsr sleeve out of my large spare parts box.after assembling it i fond that the piston came almost flush to the top of the sleeve.hence the piston would hit the head. so i grabbed a shorter fsr con rod and still the piston hit the head. and here lies why i said the ports did not line up. i shimmed the sleeve up 35 to 40 thou. the piston a bottom dead center was at the exhaust port at least .125 inches below the port. the reason i shimmed the sleeve up was i did not have say 10 head gaskets.but even with out the shims under the sleeve you will still need to remove .030 inches from the bottom of the exhaust port. and some from the engine case to. the reason i have come across as say miserable is the questions i was asked sounded more like statements than questions. i do not know any of you from adam. nor do you know me, but all i can tell you is i am straight up and when i am wrong i will fess up.i do not screw people. any way i have taken many photos .investigate them because for me to discuss them my one finger would fail.

RE: Blue head Hanno
 

roguedog if you shave the head down 2 mm you change the squiss band of the comustion chamber. this could cause pre-detonation and a host of other problems. and as far as your article i glanced at it and got the jest of it.and with out using the shorter fsr rod u would have to use a end mill to make the head less than flush to the top of the liner.because with the longer hanno rod the piston comes flush to the top of the sleeve. hence shaving the head along does not work. and i have measured the ID of the sleeve and it is in dead 24 mm.locking at the sleeve how ever it does remind me of say rossi or picco. but if you look at the picture of the top of the sleeve yousee that there is an accurate key way to guide and hold the cylinder and ports in proper alignment.has rossi copied OS in it,s manufacture of engines.anyways roguedog have you ever even eaten in canada.