Pincher or Thumber
 

Hi all... Pincher or thumber.... Do you pinch your transmitter sticks between thumb and finger or fingers or just use your thumb?
I am a pincher and need to know advantages of each. What say you and why???
Thanks,
RC

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

I pinch- it's more comfortable that way.

Do what you like and what works for you, as you're the one flying at a contest, not someone else.

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

im a thumber , its what felt natural when i was learning, and its the way my instructor told me to hold the sticks....i was 12 yrs old when i learned...... A few people have told m i need to use the pinch method, ive tried and its hard to learn a new method.... If thumbing is good enough for QuiQue Somezini, its good enough for me :D

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

Thumbs for me, Mainly I grew up playing XBOX:D It just kinda felt more natural.

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

Pinhcer? Thumb and first two fingers with the heels of my hands near the top edge of the transmitter. Originally learned as a 'thumber' but switched when I started to experiment with trays to stabilize the tranny. Now I have a simple, self designed, strap system (worn like a guitar strap) that supports the tranny like a tray and will fold to fit in my pocket.

Terry in LP

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

I've morphed into a Pinchumber. I pinch the right stick (ailerons and elevator) and I thumb the left stick (rudder and throttle).

Kurt

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

Thumber. I tried playing with the pinch, but for me I find that I mix in aileron with elevator, etc., when I pinch. I haven't played a lot of video games, but probably enough to make using my thumbs much more comfortable and seemingly natural when I fly RC.

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

I can say I've noticed a definite increase in controllability of my aircraft when I pinch, however I thumb as I found pinching felt quite uncomfortable for me, and I kept kicking rate switches with my fingers all the time.

Just couldn't deal with it. These days I fly thumbing it, with the tranny hung low and clipped to my belt on the base and neck strap to allow the tansmitter to hang about 15° down.

very comfortable.

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

Pinch style is easier to manage if you don't have to hold the transmitter. Stiffer springs also make it easier to separate left/right from up/down stick movements no matter which style you use. Look at old pictures of Hanno Prettner's (and others) position while flying. The transmitter tray is very low allowing him to grip the sticks from the top and use the greater resolution of control motions from the shoulder instead of from the wrist or three joints of a thumb.

Terry in LP

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

Thumbtalk.

Once a thumber always a thumber,

I did start flying in the period of reeds, so thumbs.

We did use the equivalent, no reeds but electronic audio filters, in Europe (Schumacher, Germany) and because of the needed high speed TPM we did get very fast thumbs.

My thumbs have a great breadth in the distal phalanxes so I can easy press my thumb on the stick. They are also attached to such a mobile metacarpus, which also produces the needed opposability, that I can easy move my sticks in any position while keeping my transmitter in the palm of my hands.

Picture 1

I keep my transmitter in my hands with my right hand in some higher position to reach the full power and full left aileron position. During landings sometimes I place my right hand on some lower position so I still have a better control over aileron and throttle.

My first proportional transmitter I did held in side position so I did not see the antenna between me and the plane.

Weather

Also the weather had influence on the position of the transmitter,
Antenna vertical or square to the plane to have most range but also to keep the sticks dry in the rain.
When I do fly “in the sun” I can use the transmitter as a shield.

Picture 2

Because we did use “long antennas”, I even TLC, the CG of the (tile) transmitter was important, I always did want to have the sticks in most upwards location in the case. For that I did have my electronics on two circuit boards stacked together and mounted above the sticks.
To have easy full control I did use the shortest sticks (attention for play) and did mount them in most possible side ward positions in the case. To have a low Centre of gravity the battery was mounted in the most lowest position and beside the (heavy) loader which I also could use to load the battery of the plane. On this transmitter I did mount the antenna on the left side so I could keep the transmitter easy it in front of me, see also picture 1.

Picture 3

While I can use my new transmitter also “pinch style” I still fly with my thumbs because I learned it that way and they are F-A-S-T. My slow middle finger I use on the backside of my new transmitter to activate the trigger switch, the electronics do generate the repeated pulses to make pictures with a in flight camera. While not photographing the electronics still make pictures in a cycle time of minutes to keep the camera wake up.
Only thermal gliders I control sometimes in “pinch style” because the control actions never have to be fast. My new transmitter has a flexible antenna mounting, for that I still prefer my old ones in strong winds.
For the Oldest Taurus on Earth I am thinking about use my old tile transmitter for that, after some updating. I already have the sticks for that. Long antenna, strong wind? I prefer a straight mounted antenna on a tile model transmitter.

Footnote:
TPM = Thumb Pulse Modulation
TLC = Top Loaded Coil

Hanna loves my new transmitter, picture 4

Cees

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

Rick,

This purely a matter of preference and what feels right. There are guys at the very top who fly trays, straps, or nothing, and guys at the top that fly thumbs or pinching. It really doesn't matter as long as its comfortable to you,

Arch

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

rcpattern,


Oh I forget one, safety, double security, what about a broken strap?

Cees

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

Well, after 28 years of flying R/C I have yet to see a broken neck strap. Especially with the new wide ones. I've never taken the possibility of a broken strap into acct for how I fly and see absolutely no reason to do so.

I actually kind of fly a combination of the two. My thumbs are on top of the sticks, but I place my pointer finger on the "front" of the stick. So I guess instead of pinching, I'm flying thumbs with some assistance from my finger.

Arch

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

Arch,
That's actually how I fly. Just curious. It looks like there is no real advatage just what feels comfortable.Michael is a thumb guy. He is growing up in the XBox generation. I'm a little beyond that. I am from the Pong generation.
RC I know. What is Pong????

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

Rick,

I'm not that young, plus I have a computer background. I do remember pong. I remember playing video games with actual joysticks.

Andrew is one that I know that doesnt fly with any strap and just thumbs. Chip flies with a strap, but with thumbs. In Europe trays are very big. Totally personal preference.

Arch

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

Well, in my experience period of nearly 45 year my antenna was hit by a low pass flying plane, full power MERCO 61, RC1 Robbe Maxi.
I lost my transmitter and antenna but not my head. I had no strap on and was happy for that.
The tip of the wing must have past a few inch from my face!! The damage on the LE of the wing was near the root,

I could stick some remains of the antenne in the grounded transmitter again and could safe my plane. The parts of that antenne were 10 feet away from me.

IF I had a strap I would have been hqappy with a broken one.

Real story and no reason not to use a strap, it only happened to me.

Cees

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

I don't think the issue in that instance was the strap or no strap it was someone else flying unsafely. That kind of like making an argument against air travel because at some point in time an airplane crashed. Yes it could happen, but I'm not you could actually even calculate the risk factor.

With today's 2.4 setups you'd have a hard time hitting the antenna.

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

I think you did not read my post,

Cees

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

I started with thumbs and realized that "pinching" was far more precise FOR ME! I do use a tray with extended sticks and heavy duty springs. I used to fly single sticks and I'm about to make my own single stick from an old World Engines single stick and the guts from a DX6i tx. Yeah, I know that the DX6i is not the most advanced radio out there but it is more simple to convert. I now use a X9303 and will miss the excellent programing. But, hey, I'm getting older than dirt so I won't miss it that much!
Frank

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

Cees...I think you did not read Arch's post. The way I read both of your posts was that you relayed a story of events that happened to you and Arch stated that even though that did happen it is a very slim chance to be repeated and did not really bear on the issue at hand. Am I mistaken in this?

At any rate, back on subject...I pinch and just started to use a strap. The strap is optional but I tried flying with my thumbs up on the sticks and it was worse than my flying by pinching the sticks which is really bad.

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

I squeeze gently - you can desensitize your fingertips if you squeeze (or thumb) too hard. I started flying in 1969 (age 12) with a Heathkit transmitter that was too thick for me to 'thumb' comfortably. I sort of flew in single stick mode (but mostly 3 channel airplanes), only adjusting the throttle when necessary. Until I started using a strap (which I cannot fly without, now) I would thumb the left stick and pinch the right (mode II). I hate holding the TX, it seems more comfortable to me to rest my hands (which are on the small side) on the TX face. Every once in a while I will hook the strap on so the hook part is not fully extended. Invariably at some time during the ensuing flight the hook will shift causing a momentary (and fractional) drop of the TX which always provides a nice little adrenalin rush [X(].
Happy Flying (however you choose to grasp the sticks)!!

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

pinching seems far more precise to me...what ever works the best for you is the best way

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

Flywilly

For me the tile transmitter has to be as thin as possible, this is my first transmitter of that b/w picture.
from front to back, 46 mm / 1 13/16 ", the machanics of the sticks were the limit

Cees

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

I thought I was the only freak that does that :)

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

I started with thumbs back in 1983, and always felt comfortable with that! I have tried the pinch method but like most people, I always go back to what I'm comfortable with!

Steve

[8D]

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

RC,

I hope you don't mind I do ask this question!

Gents, I read in the modern transmitter you can soften the sticks by settings as Expo, response and hysteresis. Maybe more.

My opinion is "thumbing the tile" is the most direct manipulating of the short sticks but you must have learned it.
Play (see the red circles on the picture) was the main technical disadvantage of my old transmitter sticks, resulting in hysteresis.

Shacking did wear the potentiometers so we were careful not to do that, .
We did want the fastest analog servo’s for the main control functions aileron and elevator.

My question is: does any thumber also uses the adjustments for :

Exponential
Response
Hysteresis.

Or are these adjustments mostly used by the pinchers because their stick manipulating is the weakest link in the chain of the control loop?

This is a real question, because why do use response adjustment when I look for the fastest servos , why use exponential when I use short sticks and why hysteresis when I do not shake and have perfect sticks now?

Also,

On the moment I want to safe my plane I do not want the speed of my servo restricted in the transmitter.

Also to think about the past, the first slow analog servos were for several pilots the reason to use their reeds radio for several years after the introduction of the proportional.

I am interested because I never did use any of them only dual rate some times.

Cees

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

In my humble opinion... The weakest link is always the (loose nut behind the sticks)the flyer, especially with todays radios.I know some of the best flyers in the world that use little to no expo both thumbers and pinchers. Arch Stafford,perennial top end finisher in masters uses very little to no expo and convinced my son early on not to use it. It can be somewhat of a crutch in my opinion but I need every cruth I can find. I've flown my son's planes with no expo and it only exagerrates every rookie mistake I make. Arch uses the approach if you need to smooth things out lessen you control surface throws. Maybe good for new dogs like my son but I'm and old dog. Different strokes for different strokes>>>>>
RC

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

Addendum...... If you learn to cover your mistakes you don't learn to fix them. I'm going to give no expo a try again to show my mistakes so can try to fix them. This is as always only my rookie opinion.
RC

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

I am interested if you will need expo the rest of your live when you don't learn to thumb, that's the background of my question.
It would be good to know before to try without!


Cees

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

I think it is safe to gleen from this thread that to thumb or pinch is just what you like and feel comfortable with. Expo is a good thing for most expanding neutrals ie. less accidental elevator with aileron input. What ever makes your flying smoother. I will try no expo again so as to let my mistakes show so I have to learn to fix them. Then I may go to a little to smooth out my flying. Again I don't want to cover my mistakes, I want to learn how not to make them.


RC

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

I fly pinch but have tried both. Pinch is more comfortable for me and I like that I rarely lose the stick and make that "doioing" sound that I hate. I was surprised that for the most part,I could fly just as well either way with a little practice,but thumbs still feels sloppier to me.
I don't see using expo as a crutch or a way to cover up poor technique unless perhaps it is being used on a trainer. It seems to me that we typically set up our planes these days with way more throw than they really need to achieve the ability to do radical maneuvers. Imagine if you set your car up so a quarter turn of the steering wheel would make the wheels go 90 degrees. Then you'd probably NEED expo just to be able to drive normal. I see expo as a way to have high and low rates available to you,without having to stop and flip a switch.



Edit:
Ooops....When I posted this,I didn't realize It was in the pattern forum. So some of my comments were made with sport and 3d flying in mind.

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

Well said. How many of us buy high torque servos and then use 25% of their available travel. Your high torque expensive servo just lost its power and resolution. Use all your servco travel and gain all the mechanical advantage you can.


RC

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

That's a good point. I had to think about it for a minute to understand what you meant,because I actually wasn't thinking along those lines. I was merely suggesting that due to the extremes we are pushing our models these days,I see expo as more of a necessity for a comfortable flying experience than a crutch. I don't know if flying without it would make you a better pilot,or if it would just make it look like your fingers aren't moving because you only have to breathe on the sticks for a response. I'm not speaking from a great deal of experience though. I use some expo to tone down the rudder on my sport plane for smoother ground handling. It gives me the same feel as dual rates did,but without having to remember to flip the switch.

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

Rick,

Keep in mind I fly very little or no expo, but use incredibly still springs. Expo has its place if you like soft springs, but with the stiff springs you don't get the accidental bumping of the stick or nerves making your flying jumpy.

Before everyone jumps all over me, I am not saying there is anything wrong with Expo. I just personally don't like the feel. When I was getting serious in pattern I had a lot of help from some guys who flew VERY stiff springs and very little expo. One of which was a multi time US world team member. I think a lot of it is how you learn. I set my planes up to fly the sequence as needed and if it is too sensitive, I will dial in a little expo to adjust the feel. I think if you have to move the stick 1/4" or more before anything happens, that is a major detriment in high wind conditions, but others don't. Just like pinch or thumb, they both work, and its a matter of feel. I think what hurts more is not learing to properly setup a plane early on. You then learn to fight conditions you shouldn't and then as you advance through the ranks these become bigger problems. I also think setting your plane up for the pattern you are flying is important. I don't think someone flying Sportsman can copy the settings of a top FAI flyer. The rates will be totally different. Set the plane up for your pattern and then as you advance learn to make adjustments accordingly. Don't assume the higher throws needed for FAI in some maneuvers are needed for Sportsman. All of this is a progression.

Arch

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

Dave Brown used to say that soft springs sell transmitters and stiff springs win contests.

I had some firsthand experience with Arch's statement about having your plane set up for your pattern. I just bought a plane a guy had set up for Masters and found there's much more rate there than I need for Sportsman...makes smooth a lot harder.

Scott

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

jeffsend, Ooops you did ask for it!!

Do not underestimate the human body

I do drive a recumbent clone like this "Flevo Racer", look also for "Flevo Bike"

See the example:
http://members.chello.nl/d.diederik/...lans/index.htm

It is a bycicle with “thrust direction control”.

Propulsion is with the legs with the frontwheel and steering is with the legs with the frontwheel (LOL).
So I have to use my legs “high torque” for propulsion and “low torque” for steering.

I can ride that bycicle with my eyes closed or reading a roadmap and for the same reason I do not need any expo for my tumbs to fly any plane, not even a little bit, it would disturb my control when I have to combine the inputs because with expo the ratio/gains are ganging.

Another profit is, I do not have to adjust and not to learn, my body does.

Learning drive that recumbent is a little bit more complicated as normal, but when known you can have attention for more important cases. (that map). The position of my legs do not have any relationshop with any "neutral" position in there movement. here are some rubber bands to neutralize the weight of the drive train, that's all. I normally can maintain a speed of about 6 - 25 km/h without using my hands also not in the city. To start I do not need my hands and the torque of my legs is much too high to use my hands, so they are only to activate the brakes.

Cycling is as thumbing only for that I do not need my eyes just as not for flying a real glider.
(Of course you have to observate not to hit anything and keep neutral)

Cees

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

I learned as a clumsy thumbs on the sticks, and a guy at the field suggested I try pinching it as he does. I had far more precision on handling the plane, but for me, I couldn't stunt as well or handle it in low rates like I can with thumbs. In the flight, I usually stick with thumbs out of habit, and if I have a maiden flight or get some flight issues like gusts, I revert to the pinch method to get that control. I've slipped more than once with thumbs and it's good to always have a forefinger on the stick to prevent a slip. I always think at home to adjust my stick heights for pinching, but when I get to the field, too many distractions going on, I forget to play with the adjustments. I have several radios, I find the JR sticks easier for me to use than the Futaba, in either style used.

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

Hee hee, that's funny, a broken strap. Maybe in Australian Rules full contact Pattern. :D

Actually using a strap is probably safer. Just this summer I saw a guy without a strap have his transmitter slip out of his hands! He uses a strap now. ;)

Keith B

RE: Pincher or Thumber
 

Hehehe, straps help on the slope too, just in case you decide to chuck the transmitter and hold onto the plane!