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RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
I have gasket material. Should I cut one out or just use a silicon on the header?
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RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
ORIGINAL: tele1974 I have gasket material. Should I cut one out or just use a silicon on the header? Silicone material will work for some time as coupling between header and pipe. How long it lasts depends on the type of silicone rubber and its thickness. Not all materials are formulated the same. For example, the turbo hose has a a red liner from "hi-Temp" silicone. This often means that it s a fluorosilicone base which not only has higher temp resistance but chem resistance also. It will eventually wear out or burn through but at a slower rate than most other sili rubbers. For that matter, so will teflon tubing. Update on the teflon coupler: I found a very small leak around the pipe stem, evidenced by a couple small oil streaks on the pipe. Teflon is much stiffer than rubber of course, so it tends not to seal as easily. I added another twist tie. The other interesting tidbit is that the oil we use with gasoline does not bake onto the header or pipe as does glow oil. I like polished headers so it has been a simple wipe down rather than repolishing...I like that |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
According to MAC I ask the same Question engine to header and they said to use silicon. I use HI Temp Red
Hope this helps Gordon In Lovely Windy wet Seattle |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
Will this stuff do the job? Permatex® High-Temp Red RTV Silicone Gasket
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RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
I use RTV high temp on my engines, it's strange stuff, stays liquid at low temps, so it'll still be gooey after a week of sitting on your aircraft, but after one run it goes hard. And I mean HARD, it's like epoxy after that, you have to crack your header off! I make sure there's no "over gooping" of the connection, and wipe off any excess before I run the engine. A little dab on the underside of the bolt heads will stop them undoing too. When you go to refit the header you'll need to scrape the old crud off before going again.
Then again, thats my stuff. There's probably better out there. |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
Testing the LINK procedure
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9741649]Bob Moulder's explanation[/link] |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
I got my pipe installed and ran it for the first time. Sounded great... I didn't get a chance to tune it. I got 9450 with the high end needle at 1.5 and the low end at 1.25. Idle is rough at 1700 and I think I can get a few more rpms with tuning the high end. I am going to switch to 87 octane I have been using 89 and 50:1 Stihl Ultra HP.
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RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
ORIGINAL: MTK Testing the LINK procedure [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9741649]Bob Moulder's explanation[/link] |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
ORIGINAL: tele1974 I got my pipe installed and ran it for the first time. Sounded great... I didn't get a chance to tune it. I got 9450 with the high end needle at 1.5 and the low end at 1.25. Idle is rough at 1700 and I think I can get a few more rpms with tuning the high end. I am going to switch to 87 octane I have been using 89 and 50:1 Stihl Ultra HP. |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
I am using a 18x6 Xoar prop for now. I tried 2.0 to 2.25 turns again on the hs needle and it wouldn't turn more that 8400. Back to 1.5 and it was turning at 9500 and I didn't try for more rpms, I ran out of time.
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RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
I ran the silicon coupler that came with the Macs Header. I lasted one flight. I have 3 degrees of right thrust on the motor and the silicon couple was compensating for it and it blew right it the area exposed to exhaust.
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RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
ORIGINAL: tele1974 I am using a 18x6 Xoar prop for now. I tried 2.0 to 2.25 turns again on the hs needle and it wouldn't turn more that 8400. Back to 1.5 and it was turning at 9500 and I didn't try for more rpms, I ran out of time. |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
ORIGINAL: tele1974 I ran the silicon coupler that came with the Macs Header. I lasted one flight. I have 3 degrees of right thrust on the motor and the silicon couple was compensating for it and it blew right it the area exposed to exhaust. |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
Well, I was able to watch 2 of these fly this weekend. I called for Matt several times as well as Bob's and watched very closely the performance. I'm a YS 1.70 fan and wouldn't give them up for anything, but I do want to say that this is a VERY capable engine for pattern. Bob is running the smaller prop in the 9000 RPM range and it runs well and performance on the Focus II is more than he could ever want. Matt's setup for Masters was also equally impressive and handled the weather this weekend well. After talking to both of them here is pretty much where I think this motor falls.
This engine is more than capable of flying a Masters sequence, however the engine likes to spool up some and does not, nor will it every have the low end torque of the YS or electric setups. I think on a really draggy airframe this would show even more. It will be very interesting to see on Matt's new widebody. The engines were VERY user friendly and for someone who would really like to run a gas setup this is definitely a competitive option with the right choice of airframe and flying style. I was VERY impressed. Arch |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
Just for everyone's info, we'll be offering an EF Extra install kit for our engine. It will come with a nice CNC milled pipe mount that will glue into the Extra's airframe. Details will follow in about a week.
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RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
ORIGINAL: tsyssa Just for everyone's info, we'll be offering an EF Extra install kit for our engine. It will come with a nice CNC milled pipe mount that will glue into the Extra's airframe. Details will follow in about a week. My exhaust header bolts came loose after three runs during the meet. Luckily I caught the problem while showng a fellow how the soft mount and engine were set-up. Would it be doable to also offer bolts with holes already drilled in the heads for safety wire? Thanks |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
ORIGINAL: rcpattern Well, I was able to watch 2 of these fly this weekend. I called for Matt several times as well as Bob's and watched very closely the performance. I'm a YS 1.70 fan and wouldn't give them up for anything, but I do want to say that this is a VERY capable engine for pattern. Bob is running the smaller prop in the 9000 RPM range and it runs well and performance on the Focus II is more than he could ever want. Matt's setup for Masters was also equally impressive and handled the weather this weekend well. After talking to both of them here is pretty much where I think this motor falls. This engine is more than capable of flying a Masters sequence, however the engine likes to spool up some and does not, nor will it every have the low end torque of the YS or electric setups. I think on a really draggy airframe this would show even more. It will be very interesting to see on Matt's new widebody. The engines were VERY user friendly and for someone who would really like to run a gas setup this is definitely a competitive option with the right choice of airframe and flying style. I was VERY impressed. Arch The YS170 CDI has no equal (for IC) in pattern; impeccable field and air manners. I have to say that after seeing the YS 170 CDI run, I was impressed!! Nevertheless, the SAP 180 more than held its own against all other ICs. Bob's Focus and my Temptress are both around 10 1/2 lbs. Mine is propped to turn around 8000 at sea level (was about 7800 at the altitude of the contest); very quiet at the contest. The foam insert into the carb intake is helping reduce the noise. Bob's set-up with the smaller prop spooled up more but was almost as quiet. I borrowed Dave Lockhart's 15.75 x 11, 3 blade for some experimentation. Just a few years ago, some people were running the prop on wide bodies so it will indeed be interesting to see how it works on mine. Looking back at the early running we did on the SAP180, the 15.75 x 10, 3 bld, spooled up to higher levels than the 17 x 12 I ran at the contest and was quiet. I hope that 1" higher pitch isn't too much load. We'll see |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
Arch,
I am hoping that with the right throttle curve it will be able to at least mimic the "feel" of mid-range torque. The thrust is there, but it just needs better management. I could not figure out how to properly program one of the point curves (mix 6 and 7 on the 9C) for throttle, so it definitely is not set up correctly yet. However this may have been a good thing because the engine really only started to settle down (much smoother with greatly reduced jumpiness or peakiness) during the last gallon of fuel. I was astonished at Pete C's tach reading because I had stopped bothering to tach when I tested props, preferring instead to see how the plane responded in the air. Well, as you saw, the engine is no longer an excuse for my flying. It was great seeing all you top Masters and FAI pilots deal with the wind, especially your 4th-round flight Saturday in the vicious dead crosswind and rain! I really appreciated all the advice and help you veterans shared freely, and I am seriously inspired to get out and fly the crap out of this Focus II no matter the conditions. |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
Matt,
PM me your e-mail address and I'll find you the links we were talking about for bolts already drilled for safety wire. Thaks for showing me your mount and how you are set up and the tach readings. I had a nice talk wiht Rick (RC11) about how your's and Bob's setups were quieter and pulled. It was worth the trip just for the fact finding. Bob, I need your e-mail addy too. Pete |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
ORIGINAL: petec Matt, PM me your e-mail address and I'll find you the links we were talking about for bolts already drilled for safety wire. Thaks for showing me your mount and how you are set up and the tach readings. I had a nice talk wiht Rick (RC11) about how your's and Bob's setups were quieter and pulled. It was worth the trip just for the fact finding. Bob, I need your e-mail addy too. Pete It was indeed worth the drive to hang out with you and the other pattern guys, most previously known only by RCU handles. Will PM with e-mail info. |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
Is anybody using a induction noise silencer? I remember someone attempting to fabricate one earlier in the thread. How is it working? I have some airframe noise to take care of and I am curious what can be done about the reed noise. Ifound this one for 15mm intakes.
http://ashfordhobby.com/images/xce103008.jpg <span style="text-decoration: underline;">ashfordhobby.com/detail.aspx</span> |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
ORIGINAL: tele1974 Is anybody using a induction noise silencer? I remember someone attempting to fabricate one earlier in the thread. How is it working? I have some airframe noise to take care of and I am curious what can be done about the reed noise. I found this one for 15mm intakes. [img][/img] <span style=''text-decoration: underline;''>ashfordhobby.com/detail.aspx</span> Matt mentioned before his foam silencer for his Temptress, but I plum forgot to take a look at it when I had the chance at Conyngham. I have been thinking about a couple of things to try - mainly involving some sort of baffle attached to the soft mount and/or the stand-offs, which Matt also mused about - but have not had time to get to them yet. Since last weekend's meet, my spare time has been consumed getting a new computer up and running, with a wireless router for my laptop, etc. Hopefully the crappola doesn't hit the fan at work and I will be able to enjoy the holiday. In fact, the weather is looking pretty bad for this afternoon, so maybe I will start on it today. Have you tried any of this stuff yet, or any alternative ideas? |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
I did purchase the velocity stack with the built in choke. Its a nice unit. I have not attempted to mount it yet. I have ran a tall velocity stack and it did improve my low end idle but that could have been just a tuning thing. I am changing my motor mounts to neoprene sandwich mounts this week end and I will check if the velocity stack with the choke will work.
Regarding the silencer, this one weighs only 17 grams and weather it will fit in my motor box is unknown at this time. The induction silencer above probably wouldn't work with the soft mount... your right. Unless you used tall velocity and got it behind it. I didn't think about that. This is the one I am using. It isn't the built in choke unit. I haven't tried that one yet. It is from tower hobbies. In my application I think the induction silencer could be slide over the stack and zip tied. Will keep you posted. http://lh6.ggpht.com/_NAc2iFxUAjI/S_...8/gpmg2100.jpg www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
OK, I saw that is was you who posted the photo of this a couple of pages back.
Got a link for it? |
RE: SAP 180 (Syssa Performance)
Link posted above.
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