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Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

Old 12-17-2010, 06:35 AM
  #76  
DougV
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

New FAQ updates for Futaba radios were added last night: http://futaba-rc.com/new.html

Doug.
Old 12-17-2010, 09:33 PM
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woodbender
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

Ok, now we have our programming ideas, enjoy your radio, play around with your menus and have fun!!
Sigh....

Doug, thanks for the link. (That, by the way, is the source of the quote above, from the FAQ on setting up a model for the 8FG.)

I was about to comment on the quote, but don't think I will. Speaks for itself, don't you think?

Old 12-18-2010, 07:00 AM
  #78  
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide


ORIGINAL: woodbender

Ok, now we have our programming ideas, enjoy your radio, play around with your menus and have fun!!
Sigh....
Yes, I agree...Sigh, and heck yes, we will play around with the menus for hours and.....
Working on a new warbird for next years campaign. Not looking foreward to the programing this new 2K system.
This is crazy. Never had this fear of a radio with my other brand X I had used since the early eighties.
I just barely got a simple test plane in the air this fall after spending all afternoon trying to figure-out what "condition" met. lol
Now I have to deal with retracts, flaps with elevator trim, JR gyro with gain, choke, and O'yes putting brakes on the side slider...which I have already tried to do and all I get is ON-OFF past the 50% travel.
Like someone else on here....I put the transmitter in it's case and don't look at it. I'll deal with it later!
Old 12-21-2010, 11:37 AM
  #79  
Bax
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide


ORIGINAL: woodbender

Ok, now we have our programming ideas, enjoy your radio, play around with your menus and have fun!!
Sigh....

Doug, thanks for the link. (That, by the way, is the source of the quote above, from the FAQ on setting up a model for the 8FG.)

I was about to comment on the quote, but don't think I will. Speaks for itself, don't you think?

Please note that the FAQ listed above has "Introduction" as its title. We're working on more. They have to come out in bite-sized bits so that they can be easily posted and are not too confusing to one not familiar with programming. The first article is all about how to start thinking about programming. You have to know what you want to do before you start doing anyting. Many don't even know where to start, let alone actually program the unit.

Old 12-28-2010, 06:33 AM
  #80  
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

Well, this thread seems to have died of neglect.
We were really fired up about writing a manual, writing software, bringing Futaba to the hanging tree if things didn't improve, etc.
Can we have a show of hands by the people who are comfortable with using the 12FG (and 12Z and 14MZ therefore) and can also have a show of hands by the people who would be willing to collaborate in writing a "dummies guide"?
I am raising my right and left ones.
Would Bax or Krysta proof read the results? Would Futaba support it? Commercialize it?

Happy New Year!
Old 12-28-2010, 07:08 AM
  #81  
MX240
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

I'll raise my right hand for a illustrated book showing ALL the pop-ups and confusing choices that confront a person on his goal to program a control surface.
Example, if I chose to use the side slider the radio should be smart enough to know I want a variable control from 0 to 100%.
As far as any help from the others.....look how long the 14Z has been out and .....nothing new. The instruction book still talks about changing the 72 frequencys.
I'll leave my $2000 raido in it's case till I get two new planes ready for the install and then I will hit the "big boys" hard to help me program this *#* radio.
Old 12-28-2010, 07:16 AM
  #82  
RogerParrett
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

I'll help with the 12FG programming.

r/s... Roger
Old 12-28-2010, 08:03 AM
  #83  
rarefind666
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

My 12 FG will probably stay on the shelf[:@] I just hate it that much. (the manual) Maybe if some real good info comes out I will try again.(this is suppose to be FUN??? RIGHT??)
Old 12-28-2010, 10:29 AM
  #84  
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide


ORIGINAL: MX240

I'll raise my right hand for a illustrated book showing ALL the pop-ups and confusing choices that confront a person on his goal to program a control surface.
Example, if I chose to use the side slider the radio should be smart enough to know I want a variable control from 0 to 100%.
As far as any help from the others.....look how long the 14Z has been out and .....nothing new. The instruction book still talks about changing the 72 frequencys.
I'll leave my $2000 raido in it's case till I get two new planes ready for the install and then I will hit the ''big boys'' hard to help me program this *#* radio.
All contingencies cannot be covered. There are just too many ways to program a model. However, examples will be put out to show basics, and then you'll be able to work with them.

With Futaba, a control's center is 0%. Then, it goes to +100% for the normal directions. That means that a slider will be +100% at one end, 0% in the middle, and +100% at the other. This is easily seen in the AFR screen inside the Model Menu. If you make the settings -100% at the ends of travel, then the servo will move in the reverse direction, similar to moving the reversing setting in the Linkage Menu.

There are a LOT of new FAQ's at the Futaba website for the 12's and 14. Just take a look:

http://www.futaba-rc.com/faq/index.html

Old 12-28-2010, 12:46 PM
  #85  
flatspinjim
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

For the record, I love my 12fg. It's a VERY powerful radio! There is a learning curve, no doubt about that but it's sure worth it.
Old 12-28-2010, 03:21 PM
  #86  
MX240
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

Ok Bax,
We are having some friends over tonight.
I will take a new look at the Futaba website soon.

Trust me, when I get this new warbird done and if I can't figure this thing out, you boys will be hearing from me....smilling
I will try Futaba's private website first for my questions....but if I can't understand that, your phone will be ringing.
Jim
Old 12-28-2010, 09:43 PM
  #87  
woodbender
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

Bill, with due respect, posting new FAQs on your web site, at least in my humble opinion, does little if anything to address the concerns you read here and elsewhere.

One of my chief gripes is that information on how to set up these radios is so widely scattered as to be only marginally useful. It isn't presented in a logical flow I can follow (see below).

As for contributing to a DIY manual, sure I'll do my part. It ain't rocket science to build information around a table of contents, provide step by step instructions using common examples, include a nice glossary (translating Futabaeze into English), and of course, an index. Making the information flow in a logical order is only a matter of spending a fair amount of time on an outline; the more detailed the better. Once the outline is complete it's like a tree in winter; trunk, branches and twigs. Writing the manual from the outline is just a matter of adding a leaf at a time. Pretty soon it's done.

Bill, (Hobbico) wouldn't it be a heck of a lot easier, more cost effective and take a LOT of pressure off of your support team to just write a new manual? Are you really going to leave it to your loyal (paying) customers to do this?

Honestly, Bill, the manual would be easy to write if you and your cohorts at Hobbico put your heads together. I can't imagine Hobbico and/or Futaba Japan thinking this manual issue is going to be resolved with a couple of videos and some new FAQs.

Wish I knew how to get Futaba to see what a big deal this is. I have a continuing feeling that the collective 'they' (especially Futaba Japan) just don't 'get' it.

Happy New Year, everyone. Maybe one way or another, 2011 will bring us a new manual for our wonderfully versatile Futaba radios.

Hope Springs Eternal.
Old 12-29-2010, 06:00 AM
  #88  
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

Woodbender, WELL SAID!!! I totality agree...
Old 12-29-2010, 06:43 AM
  #89  
MX240
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

Futabaeze into English..........Cracks me up!
Old 12-29-2010, 06:57 AM
  #90  
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

The instruction manual tells you how to operate each function. It does that. What no instruction manual can tell you do to is how to program your airplane. Many, many modelers really have no idea how to program their model. They just jump in and start fiddling with the transmitter without a clear idea of what they want to do. That's why we're doing the programming description the way we're doing them. We're starting out with the setup of one model as an example of how to think about the programming, and then go about getting it done.

I have a digital camera with a lot of options, modes, and settings. The instructions tell how to operate and access each one. They do not tell me how to take great pictures with those options. I can set shutter speed or aperture, or both, and the manual tells me how. It does not tell me what settings are appropriate for a picture I want to take. Same for "film speed" settings, and so forth. I have several books on digital photography to teach me those things.

We're working on getting enough information out so that people can acquire the mindset needed to program the transmitter. Once you're familiar with that, the programming comes naturally and easily, for the most part.

As far as requests for a manual that gives examples of all contingencies.....well, it's not going to happen. The transmitters are just too versatile for that. We can show how to set something up in a general manner, and then the modeler is expected to extrapolate from that to their specific model.
Old 12-29-2010, 08:21 AM
  #91  
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

Woodbender - What specific questions do you have? I live in Ladera Ranch and would be happy to spend some time with you either in person or on the phone. PM me if you feel like it.


It would help if people would say what the actual issue is they are having rather than just saying the manual sux. As Bill says, there is not way to have specific examples of how to program every single model type out there. I fly gliders, pattern, IMAC, and helis and I am still not using the full potential of my 14MZ.

Add in the flexibility of programming options and it gets even more complicated. I have three friends who fly gliders using the 14MZ. We were sitting around at a recent contest chatting about the radio. All four of us had a different approach to setting up our planes. All four work perfectly and make sense to each of us. Bottom line is that there is no one "right" way, or even a single way to do most things with these radios.

As Bill noted once you have a specific question the FAQs do a pretty good job of answering most questions. Beyond that I just tinker a lot. It's fun for me when I figure out a new or different way to do something!!
Old 12-29-2010, 08:32 AM
  #92  
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide


ORIGINAL: Bax



I have a digital camera with a lot of options, modes, and settings. The instructions tell how to operate and access each one. They do not tell me how to take great pictures with those options. I can set shutter speed or aperture, or both, and the manual tells me how. It does not tell me what settings are appropriate for a picture I want to take. Same for ''film speed'' settings, and so forth. I have several books on digital photography to teach me those things.

We're working on getting enough information out so that people can acquire the mindset needed to program the transmitter. Once you're familiar with that, the programming comes naturally and easily, for the most part.

As far as requests for a manual that gives examples of all contingencies.....well, it's not going to happen. The transmitters are just too versatile for that. We can show how to set something up in a general manner, and then the modeler is expected to extrapolate from that to their specific model.
If I may, Bax, I will quote two portions of your post.
The first one about having several books on photography to teach you about it. Yes, but... where are the complementary books on setting models on a Futaba radio to do that?
The problem with manuals (both Futaba and cameras) is that the message is "to do that, do this...", no indication why you want to do that.
The second is yes, I agree, they are really versatile transmitters. Amazingly versatile to the point that I always say you can do the same setup two or three different ways.

I must say I am very comfortable with the programming because I reached the "aha! point" after a lot of fiddling. And I also must say that many people do not take the time to try to understand the basics. Just want results. But at the same time I posit that the manual has too many "to exit this menu do this" (in every programming step!) instead of trying to explain, at least moderately, what it means to use that option.
By analyzing the questions posted in these forums and the ones at Futaba's Web site is easy to see that there is a barrier to get started and once the simple setups are solved the questions are not for complex programming anymore with just a few exceptions.
Old 12-29-2010, 08:58 AM
  #93  
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide


ORIGINAL: Bax

The instruction manual tells you how to operate each function. It does that. What no instruction manual can tell you do to is how to program your airplane. Many, many modelers really have no idea how to program their model. They just jump in and start fiddling with the transmitter without a clear idea of what they want to do. That's why we're doing the programming description the way we're doing them. We're starting out with the setup of one model as an example of how to think about the programming, and then go about getting it done.

I have a digital camera with a lot of options, modes, and settings. The instructions tell how to operate and access each one. They do not tell me how to take great pictures with those options. I can set shutter speed or aperture, or both, and the manual tells me how. It does not tell me what settings are appropriate for a picture I want to take. Same for ''film speed'' settings, and so forth. I have several books on digital photography to teach me those things.

We're working on getting enough information out so that people can acquire the mindset needed to program the transmitter. Once you're familiar with that, the programming comes naturally and easily, for the most part.

As far as requests for a manual that gives examples of all contingencies.....well, it's not going to happen. The transmitters are just too versatile for that. We can show how to set something up in a general manner, and then the modeler is expected to extrapolate from that to their specific model.



I just bought my last Futaba after that post
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Old 12-29-2010, 09:07 AM
  #94  
profmb
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

Hi Bax
With respect I think that you are missing the point. There is a whole language and massive assumptions made in the manual. These assumptions are at a very basic level - such as a language full of acronyms...as the initiator of this thread, my point was that before one can enter the 'dark world' of programming, one first has to understrand basic principles. For example, looking at the Futaba FAQ's just a piece of knowledge about the principles of configuring a 3 way switch is as important as understanding what AFR means. I cannot find anything in the manual about how to configure a 3 way switch. Now what is the collective wisdom about what you can do with a 3 switch? There must be loads of ideas out there.

Bax, just knowing how to set up flaperons (Futaba FAQ's) is one thing, but it does not really inform in any meaningful sense about the principles of setting up flaperons for example, such as how one might/ or should configure another surface to work in conjunction with this. From what I know some screens need to be configured first before one can properly configure another screen - a 'wizard' would explain this and it would explain at each stage WHY this needs to be done, and what the impact would be on other configurations that need to come later...but this is to repeat what has already been said earlier...

Of course there are so many planes out there, but as experts show how they have configured different plane types then one can adapt the knowledge from these, and so build up collective knowledge of all the different possibilities.

For Woodbender...I think we are in complete agreement - a Dummies Guide is required. Whilst Futaba should do this, we could be waiting a long time. I would vote for a Wikki style web site with a technical team that would vet user contributions. I would be happy to help establish the infrastructure for this, but we need people like Roger and others who have offered to help in earlier parts of this thread to be willing to contribute time. Setting up a web form template would be a start and we could work up a template in Excel to kick this off?

So would it be possible to agree the following?

a) We need a dummies guide
b) That there is a lot of very good information already available (we have lots of references on this thread with which we can cross reference, or copy from) that we could use as a foundation?
c) That from b) we could commence compiling the guides into a format that we are all happy with.
d) That as suggested earlier by Beto9 we bring together an 'editorial board' who could work together on this?
e) The editorial board could then publish sample Dummies Guides for a group of 'unitiated' - like me, Woodbender and MX240 (to name of a few) to test these out and feed back comments (User acceptance testing?)

This thread is in danger of 'going round in circles', so by agreeing on a course of action something really useful might just emerge?

Make sense?



Old 12-29-2010, 09:40 AM
  #95  
rarefind666
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

Profmb, you are right


Bax, I did not buy a 129.00 camera from Wallmart nor did I buy a 129.00 Futaba(maybe in the past)Both have a 1/4 to 1/2 thick manuals So maybe the 1200.00 Futaba should have a 2.5" thick manual for us dummies

Sorry, just a little T-off at your post
Old 12-29-2010, 10:26 AM
  #96  
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

profmb,

Just a couple comments on your "plan of action";

1) I would think Futaba, if they are truly interested in their consumers needs, should agree to review the material posted and possibly correlate the [obvious] intent of the particular article with any related acronyms or procedures included in the "manual" and,

2)in general I agree 1000% with your plan of action.

With Regard To the above comments, and to expound on your description of the problem, an example given <-><-><-> when I bought my first new generation Futaba Radio (7C), I wanted to program "exponential" rates for a particular sport model I fly. Other users could tell me how to do it, but the manual does not clearly describe what exponential is in layman's terms...it DOES tell how to program it, but because this was not something commonly available on radios when I quit flying before, and because I never really understood the programming procedure to accomplish it, it took several weeks of reading and comparing notes with what other users had told me to do, to understand where in the menu to go and why to do this or that to accomplish the desired result...THIS is what should be clearer in the Futaba manuals, and it should be in the MANUALS, not solely on the website...IMHO

A little "background" to the situation I gave above as an example; I have 4 programmable Futaba radios purchased within the last two years (7C, 9CS, 10CAG, and 12FG); I've been using Futaba radios for over 30 years, but was on hiatus [from the hobby] for about 18 years until a couple years ago and I also have 4 "other" Futaba radios (older non-computer 72 mhz, including 3 7FGK radios and a PCM 5 channel radio)...I understand that most manufacturers/distributors of equipment are NOT the ones that write the "Dummies" guides, BUT the intuitiveness, outline and description of the things that are included in the Futaba Manuals could be MUCH MUCH MUCH more user friendly and better explained/documented (eg a "dictionary" explaining the technical AND "street" meaning of all the acronyms in the manual)...IMHO.
Old 12-29-2010, 10:29 AM
  #97  
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

Profmb,
Forums often start with a good idea or comment, and then meander through complaints and grievances and then fizzle into nothing. However, your offer to start a team that could pull together a user-based "Dummies Guide" in a moderated wiki has my vote. I do want to become adept in the use my 12FG, and a user-friendy type of wiki could be a treasure trove of user application information.



Old 12-29-2010, 10:32 AM
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

Bax,
Please encourage your team to press on with more of Futaba Programming videos!!! These are a breath of fresh air! It is awsome for 12FG newbies like me to follow along with the underlying ideas of "why do I need to do this?". Hobbico team's initial video sessions gratefully eased me past my deer-in-the-headlights "knob" shock of what must I do first? Almost no one in my flying club uses these advanced systems, so for folks like me, these Futaba Programming videos are invaluable.

I am very encouraged that Hobbico is working on pulling together more user application! The new FAQs are a step in the right direction. My sincere wish would be for your team to find a way to organize the weath of information in the Futaba FAQ into a more user-friendly "roadmap" of programming approach per type of vehicle, that is, "how would I think like a Futaba 8FG/12FG/12Z/14Z?". Keep up the good work.

Old 12-29-2010, 12:36 PM
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

profmb: great idea to setup a Wiki type of cooperation. I am in (feet first!)

Winter is here, flying days are not accommodating to outdoor activities, etc. etc. etc.

And besides, I have only one project to while it away...

If you can setup the Web site then let's go!

Ahem... let's make sure that the Wiki has enough operating documentation...
Old 12-29-2010, 12:41 PM
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

rfk1381,

The videos will be continued. I had hoped to get 103 in the can prior to the end of the year but it's not going to happen. It should, however be available by the end of January.

Additional guides to programming have been, and are being discussed. All, please understand your concerns/suggestions are being listened to by Hobbico. The video series I have been doing was started as a result of requests received from customers.

I don't know what the future will hold right now, but Hobbico did not become the company we are today by not listening to our customers.

Steve


ORIGINAL: rfk1381

Bax,
Please encourage your team to press on with more of Futaba Programming videos!!! These are a breath of fresh air! It is awsome for 12FG newbies like me to follow along with the underlying ideas of ''why do I need to do this?''. Hobbico team's initial video sessions gratefully eased me past my deer-in-the-headlights ''knob'' shock of what must I do first? Almost no one in my flying club uses these advanced systems, so for folks like me, these Futaba Programming videos are invaluable.

I am very encouraged that Hobbico is working on pulling together more user application! The new FAQs are a step in the right direction. My sincere wish would be for your team to find a way to organize the weath of information in the Futaba FAQ into a more user-friendly ''roadmap'' of programming approach per type of vehicle, that is, ''how would I think like a Futaba 8FG/12FG/12Z/14Z?''. Keep up the good work.


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