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Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

Old 11-18-2011, 05:49 AM
  #201  
wjcalhoun
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

Malcolm
I think your idea has merit.
A compendium of 'solved problems' would eventually cover the more common programming issues: basic setup, aileron differential, flaps, flaperon/spoilerons, idle down, throttle cut, optical kill switches, mixes for coupling, etc.
Were that compendium to be indexed, the whole could be fairly useful and user-friendly. There will always be personal preferences in setups that may render one solution unworkable for someone else, but the solution would at least be a starting point.

I am now reasonably adept at setting up my radio now, but as above, had a recent frustrating issue with the throttle cut function.

Thanks for all of your contributions.
Old 11-18-2011, 06:00 AM
  #202  
aghost
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

telejojo: Seems like I had a similar throttle cut problem with my 8FG on at least one plane. I think I ended up with the throttle cut normally "On" and flipped it "Off" to kill the engine. Since the switch On/Off settings are easily configured, I got the switch direction as i wanted.

Brian
Old 11-18-2011, 06:03 AM
  #203  
BuschBarber
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

Back when I had my Futaba 8AUPS, Don EdBerg wrote some useful manuals that filled in the gaps that the original manual left out. He no longer does this and no one else really publishes 3rd party manuals that are as in depth as Don's. Don would present various scenarios and explain how to use multiple Programmable Mixers to solve the problems.

I have not found manuals for any modern RC Radios that really help you understand the complexity of the advanced features. You are left to rummage through forums like RCU or wait for Addendums.

If the Programming in the radio is Intuitive, the detail in the manual is not as important.
Old 11-18-2011, 06:11 AM
  #204  
woodbender
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

I, too, lament that the group effort hasn't worked out.

Mr. Holt, more or less single handedly took matters in his own hands and simply wrote what amounted to a new manual. He's since added what amounts to guides for setting up different airplane types.

Without his help, frankly, I'd have thrown in the towel and gone to a different MFG; ALL of which supply comparatively easily understood manuals with their radios.

I didn't see the project as 'top down' as much as it was an effort for frustrated R/C nuts to try to sort out how to work together; never an easy process. Some of the learning curve has to do with upgrading from a relatively simple Tx to a Tx with vast computer functionality.

As an example, when I first got this Tx, (8fg) I was stuck for a LONG time on the notion of an airplane with one aileron. How the heck could you have only one aileron? Yes, chuckle if you like, but absent the basic notion that the 'manual' refers to the number of aileron SERVOS, they lost me at the first screen.

The problem, as I see it, is that the manual is written over the heads of a lot of us.

Thank Goodness Mr. Holt lives where the climate provides limited flying time.

Old 11-18-2011, 07:08 AM
  #205  
Bax
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

Many questions are handled in the FAQ section of the Futaba RC website:

http://www.futaba-rc.com/faq/index.html

They can also be answered in the Futaba Support Forum here on RCU.

They can also be answered by direct email: [email protected]

You can write a letter:

Futaba Product Support
3002 N. Apollo Drive, Suite #1
Champaign IL 61822

Pick up a phone:

(217) 398-8970, option 2

Finally, please realize that the Futaba instructions do tell you what a function does and how to set its parameters. What it cannot do is tell you how you should set up your airplane. Futaba cannnot know if you want dual rates or expo, or both. They cannot tell you if you want to cascade mixers or have them all separate. They cannot tell you all the intimate details of setting up your model to give you the feel you desire. There is, though, a basic walk-through for setting up the system in the instructions.

Page 36 of the 12FG manual starts the basic airplane setting procedure. Pages after that involve helis.

Page 37 of the 12Z manual.

The 14 MZ has it start on page 39 as well as having a quick start guide.

There are also articles and airplane programs on the Futaba Flyers Club website, which are available to owners of 12FG, 12Z, and 14MZ transmitters purchased in North America.

Plenty of resources available.
Old 11-18-2011, 07:50 AM
  #206  
woodbender
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

Sailplanes could have a "Launch" condition, which presets the flaps to the best launch position and adjusts the elevator deflection to compensate. Along the same lines of thought are "Thermal" and "Fast Cruise" conditions. Thermal would have the best flap deflection for thermalling, and Fast Cruise would have the flaps slightly reflexed so that the glider can hit the optimum speed to go between thermals. Finally, a "land" condition would allow deployment of spoilers or Crow, and enable any retractable landing gear. Each condition would also have the throws of the other flight controls optimized with appropriate travel amounts, possibly with differing expo rates.


Mr. Baxter,

With due respect, people like yourself and Mr. Holt have a wonderful grasp of not only the capabilities of this Tx (8fg) but an intimate knowledge of how to set it up.

People like me simply don't know what we don't know.

Moreover, people like me don't particularly relish the notion that answers to fundamental questions are spread all over the web. This information, IMHO, ought to be provided in a clearly written manual supplied with the product you sell.

As an example of the extent to which the FAQ section to which you refer above frustrates more than informs, the above quote is taken from the FAQ section for the 8fg. Yes, wouldn't it be wonderful to have conditions labeled 'Fast Cruise' or 'Thermal'. Trouble is, not even Mr. Holt has figured out how to change the labels for conditions in the 8fg. We're stuck with 'Distance' and 'Speed.' Perhaps you're about to enlighten us all as to how to change these labels in the 8fg. 

Hope Springs Eternal.


Old 11-18-2011, 09:05 AM
  #207  
profmb
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

Bax

"Futaba instructions do tell you what a function does and how to set its parameters." This is of no use, when one does not even understand the function - what its purpose is and what it means to change paramaters. Neither is it of any use, when one set of paramaters can impact another (within a different 'function').

"Futaba cannot know if you want dual rates or expo, or both. They cannot tell you if you want to cascade mixers or have them all separate." Of course they cannot - but that is not the point. Understanding a dual rate, triple rate and expo and how they impact each other would be a good start. How to set up a triple rate switch even better. How to configure a 'Condition' to implement a triple rate would be good. Yet you introduce another term: 'cascade mixers' - please show me where that is the in the manual!

A good example of how confusing this all is, can be seen on this thread on RC Groups , which you contributed to:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...=935250&page=2

You see it is not so much an issue of of describing what function does what - but the concepts behind the function and how to use the functions as a system so that they work together. Because Futaba have created so many options - it creates mass confusion, and makes the whole process so complex. It seems to me that Futaba assume that all users have grown up with computer radio's and so if you are using one of them, then you must understand the language. But as we know this is plainly incorrect. It was only recently that I stumbled on a forum entry that explains how to use the standard Butterfly mix (that it is designed to be operated from the throttle stick)...you will not find that in the manual...

Finally, to say that the information is available on the web, but what a job to search it out....well I have searched a lot and leanrned a fair amount. But this has taken hours and massive amounts of trial and error. It should not be like this.

But to move matters on, simply scouring this and other forums and collating the set up guides in one place maybe a goods start...




Old 11-18-2011, 10:55 AM
  #208  
rfk1381
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

Bax,

Does your team have plans to produce more videos of the "Futaba Programming 101" series by Steve Kalauf? Those two were worth their weight in gold. Steve explained the "WHY" of the basic setup, and the visual demonstration of "HOW" it was done in the Futaba menu system was worth many 1000s of printed words. Maybe one or two for airplanes on simple setup of dual aileron configuration including aileron differential or flaperons, and another two or so for heli setups covering swash and maybe power configurations.

Thanks...Ron K

(12FG owner)
Old 11-18-2011, 06:01 PM
  #209  
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

Thanks I will try that.............
Old 11-19-2011, 09:11 AM
  #210  
MX240
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

Biteing my tongue.
A 14MZ user
Old 11-19-2011, 10:28 AM
  #211  
Howard
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

I have a different take on how the manual got to be what it is: I believe it is a translation from the original Japanese version of the manual by someone or many folks who clearly do not speak English as a firsts language. There are sentences that make absolutely no sense, dialogue that does not represent how the English language is spoken, words used that could be selected from a list but are not used in that context by English speaking folks, sentences that can be read a dozen times and still fail to communicate whatever they are trying to communicate. The English version is not written for an engineer by an engineer (I am an engnieer) it is simply a terrible translation. I have no idea how good the Japanese version is but, I do know the English version is the worst manual for any radio sold in the USA. I have read them all and the manual for the 8FG, 12FG, 12Z and 14MZ should be a professional embarrasment to Futaba. Defending the manual from any angle is a denial of the truth.

Is all of that important to the product probably not at this point because simply put, there is no other radio sold in this country that can honestly compete with the programming flexibility of this group of radios. The truth is that these are some of the finest programming radios on the planet. If that ever changes and I can find a manufactured with a well written manual and a competitive radio then guess where I am headed. Read the manual for the Airtronics SD-10G for a glimpse of a very well written manual the only problem is that the radio does not come near to meeting the standards for the upper tier at Futaba. If Airtronics were to develop an upper tier 14 channel radio and a manual that you can actually read and understand then I am on my way. In the mean time I am sticking with the finest programming radio's on the planet.

Howard
Old 11-21-2011, 08:30 AM
  #212  
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

Ron,

I'm trying to get back to working on the Video Classroom series. Aw heck it's only a year past due. I'm not going to make any promises as to when I'll have it done, but it is making slow progress back to the top of the list again.

Steve


ORIGINAL: rfk1381

Bax,

Does your team have plans to produce more videos of the ''Futaba Programming 101'' series by Steve Kalauf? Those two were worth their weight in gold. Steve explained the ''WHY'' of the basic setup, and the visual demonstration of ''HOW'' it was done in the Futaba menu system was worth many 1000s of printed words. Maybe one or two for airplanes on simple setup of dual aileron configuration including aileron differential or flaperons, and another two or so for heli setups covering swash and maybe power configurations.

Thanks...Ron K

(12FG owner)
Old 11-21-2011, 11:20 AM
  #213  
woodbender
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

https://www.airtronics.net/index.php...itfile_id/223/

Read the manual for the Airtronics SD-10G for a glimpse of a very well written manual the only problem is that the radio does not come near to meeting the standards for the upper tier at Futaba. If Airtronics were to develop an upper tier 14 channel radio and a manual that you can actually read and understand then I am on my way. In the mean time I am sticking with the finest programming radio's on the planet.
Bill, Steve, and all the other Hobbico managers who monitor this thread but do not contribute:

The Airtronics manual (see link above) isn't perfect, but it could well serve as a template for how a proper manual ought to look IMHO. Please take some time and read it over. Notice how it's organized.

Please consider writing a new one yourselves.

With all the talented people at Hobbico burning their time monitoring threads like this one and manning the hot line, perhaps your time could be better spent writing a world class manual; one to set the standard for the industry; in other words a manual to match the product you sell.

You could initiate this project. If you can produce videos, you can produce manuals.

It's a question of setting priorities.







Old 11-21-2011, 04:16 PM
  #214  
MX240
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

Yes...yes... yes... Woodbender
The 14MZ manual I recieved with my new radio this fall was written when the 72 band was running. Not a thing about 2.4.
About a forth of the pictures showing how to program in the 14MZ manual don't even exist on these newer radios.
After many hours searching the web and even asking a couple of local members how to program the radio and getting a reply of, "gee I never have figured that out yet".
Shame on Futaba for selling us this fine radio and leaving us hanging. I do think this windows base system wasn't written for flying aircraft but was configured to make it work for what we want.

As a old JR 10 user it would never take me over a hour to program a full house warbird with 14 servos because I had a manual that was UP-TO-DATE!
The videos were helpful for sure..... but they never did show how to program 3-duel rates.....only showed two?
Old 11-21-2011, 04:36 PM
  #215  
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

I have an 8fg, great radio, awful manual.
Old 11-21-2011, 04:42 PM
  #216  
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide


ORIGINAL: woodbender
With all the talented people at Hobbico burning their time monitoring threads like this one and manning the hot line, perhaps your time could be better spent writing a world class manual;
It is my understanding that Futaba writes the manuals. It is not up to their distributors to do so. So the folks at Hobbico largely have their hands tied. They can do videos, etc. But I do not think they can write a whole new manual.
Old 11-21-2011, 08:02 PM
  #217  
woodbender
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

Yes, Silent, that's my understanding also, that the Japanese 'handlers' are responsible for the manuals, such as they are. Of course, Futaba Japan could and should write a new manual, but they're unlikely to do so.

With my post above, I was hoping to build a fire under Hobbico to do something.. something that could help their sales.

I remain hopeful that Hobbico, perhaps even in partnership with their European counterparts would undertake the project since:

1) They have the staff, the expertise and infrastructure to do it properly.

2) Unlike Futaba Japan, they listen, and hopefully 'hear' the concerns of users of this Tx.

3) They have a stake in sorting this out.

To use your analogy, if the national distributor for Ford discovered inherent flaws in the owner’s manual for the F-150, they'd of course take their concerns to the Ford management. Absent action on the part of the Ford managers, the distributor might well take matters into their own hands; ESPECIALLY if the result of the deficient manual was disgruntled purchasers.

It isn't like sending a satellite into orbit, for Goodness Sake.



 

It's only a manual.



Old 11-21-2011, 09:31 PM
  #218  
wjcalhoun
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

If Futaba has the rights on the word 'manual', Hobbico could certainly put out a "user's guide". Every nice piece of electronics we now buy comes with a manual, which is generally useless, and a fold-out card called a "quick-start guide", or "user's guide". Certainly Hobbico could plagiarize from Malcolm's notes to get to the user's guide.

I have an 8FG, not a 12 FG, but I understand that the programming issues are quite similar.
Old 02-26-2012, 06:14 PM
  #219  
siginden
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Default RE: Futaba 12 FG Dummies Guide

When is Video Classroom 103 ( and beyond) for the 12 fg coming out? Keep up the good work. siginden
Old 05-29-2023, 02:39 AM
  #220  
SingleStick
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Default Futaba Tx's for dummies

Originally Posted by woodbender

Yes, Silent, that's my understanding also, that the Japanese 'handlers' are responsible for the manuals, such as they are. Of course, Futaba Japan could and should write a new manual, but they're unlikely to do so.

With my post above, I was hoping to build a fire under Hobbico to do something.. something that could help their sales.

I remain hopeful that Hobbico, perhaps even in partnership with their European counterparts would undertake the project since:

1) They have the staff, the expertise and infrastructure to do it properly.

2) Unlike Futaba Japan, they listen, and hopefully 'hear' the concerns of users of this Tx.

3) They have a stake in sorting this out.

To use your analogy, if the national distributor for Ford discovered inherent flaws in the owner’s manual for the F-150, they'd of course take their concerns to the Ford management. Absent action on the part of the Ford managers, the distributor might well take matters into their own hands; ESPECIALLY if the result of the deficient manual was disgruntled purchasers.

It isn't like sending a satellite into orbit, for Goodness Sake.



It's only a manual.



I'm lost! Even after these many years & yards of posting in this 'thread? I'm still lost! Been in RC & building/fling/crashing/rebuilding Buffalo. 50+ years & I've yet to see a well written user manual from Futaba (except Annamarie]. I really like single stick TX, but they've gone the way of the buffalo. My Futaba 18MZ could be too much for me. Would really like to see some basic (paper) info for the tx which could be built upon
Old 01-22-2024, 04:35 PM
  #221  
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Default

I think I found out why you can't find a single futaba radio product in any LHS like the old days. Singapore hobby supplies on youtube makes a lot of good videos how to set up Futaba radios. most of it does carry over to other models. I've been able to figure out many aspects of the 12FGA by watching him set up things using much newer radios like the 18sz etc.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...9UStgJi1xOd4oJ

Last edited by RCoffroadracer; 01-22-2024 at 04:41 PM.

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