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JR 50Mhz Rx. compatible W/ 53Mhz crystals ?

Old 06-12-2011, 04:52 PM
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CarPainter
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Default JR 50Mhz Rx. compatible W/ 53Mhz crystals ?

I purchaseda group ofused NER-649 recivers and modules in 50 and 53Mhz. I just noticed that some of the recievers marked 50Mhz have 53Mhz crystals in them. They seem to work fine at short range, but I won't trust them them, even if they range test OK, without more info.

Thanks
Old 06-12-2011, 04:58 PM
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DMcQuinn
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Default RE: JR 50Mhz Rx. compatible W/ 53Mhz crystals ?

Like you, I was under the impression that 53 mHz crystals would not work in a receiver designed for 50 mHz. I would not trust it. I don't think JR has sold a 53 mHz system in 15 years or more.

Dave
AB0GZ
Old 06-12-2011, 05:08 PM
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Campgems
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Default RE: JR 50Mhz Rx. compatible W/ 53Mhz crystals ?

It is possible that someone retuned the receiver to handle the 53mhz band. A posibility, a guess, but not ha hard answer.

Don
Old 06-12-2011, 11:58 PM
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fiery
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Default RE: JR 50Mhz Rx. compatible W/ 53Mhz crystals ?

I have used 35 Mhz Rx's (used in UK) with 36 Mhz Crystals (the permitted frequency in Australia), no problems at all.

I suspect that if the Rx in question is "tuned" it will perform just fine with it's new crystal. In the US this is to be undertaken by an authorised technician. Whether that is worthwhile given the cost is up to the user.

Old 06-13-2011, 06:18 AM
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Rodney
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Default RE: JR 50Mhz Rx. compatible W/ 53Mhz crystals ?

If you are using this in the USA and using this frequency, then you have a HAM license, correct? If so then you are allowed to fine tune the transmitter and the receiver so you should be able to make it work reliably. If no HAM license, then you are not legally allowed to operate on these frequencies.
Old 06-13-2011, 06:52 AM
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CarPainter
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Default RE: JR 50Mhz Rx. compatible W/ 53Mhz crystals ?

I got my technitions liscence last year. The only reason I have it is for RC. The locals HAMs call me a "HAM in name only".
Old 06-13-2011, 11:30 AM
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Default RE: JR 50Mhz Rx. compatible W/ 53Mhz crystals ?


ORIGINAL: CarPainter

I got my technitions liscence last year. The only reason I have it is for RC. The locals HAMs call me a ''HAM in name only''.

Seriously? Why? Did you know that you do not need a license for 72Mhz and 2.4gHz is even better technology than 72 and 50, with no license required? Wonder what made you go thru all that trouble just for RC?

In my highschool / college years I made a decision. A couple of my cousins were going up thru the Ham radio ranks, all the way up to Extra Class and what not. They invited me over several times and I even started taking morse code classes. Well, there was a decision to be made. On a student budget, I could not afford to be a Ham and an RCer. In my case, only one of the hobbies survived. My cousins rarely keep up with their ham radio stuff anymore.

Rafael
Old 06-13-2011, 01:39 PM
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tadawson
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Default RE: JR 50Mhz Rx. compatible W/ 53Mhz crystals ?

It's obvious . . . 50MHz is an exclusive allocation to the HAM community - you don't get the dribbling idiots and kiddies you get on 72. And on 50, you don't have all the shadowing and other limitation of 2.4, *AND* you can legally work on/build/modify/whatever your own gear . ..

- Tim
Old 06-13-2011, 01:54 PM
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Default RE: JR 50Mhz Rx. compatible W/ 53Mhz crystals ?


ORIGINAL: tadawson

It's obvious . . . 50MHz is an exclusive allocation to the HAM community - you don't get the dribbling idiots and kiddies you get on 72. And on 50, you don't have all the shadowing and other limitation of 2.4, *AND* you can legally work on/build/modify/whatever your own gear . ..

- Tim
Oh, yes really obvious. Half of those reasons do not apply to him if he's asking if 53mHz crystals work on 50Mhz receivers. If I was going to by flying FPV with a ham TV frequency, then I could see the potential benefit. But with so many FPV systems in the market that do not require a ham license...........

What may be obvious to you might not be so obvious for everyone else. Please let the OP answer my question. On 2.4 you do not have to worry about any of those reasons, other than modifying your own radios. I've sent TWO radios for service in over 20 years. That hardly accounts for the hassle of getting a ham license.

I can think of a comment that is directly linked to the "exclusive allocation to the ham community" but I will reserve it.

Rafael
Old 06-13-2011, 04:17 PM
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modeltronics
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Default RE: JR 50Mhz Rx. compatible W/ 53Mhz crystals ?

I still have a couple radios on 6 meters. Don't think that you are 100% safe flying on 6 meters. Give a listen to the band during the VHF contest if conditions are good. There will be all sorts of activity in the portions of the band that we fly from, both on 50 and 53 mhz. And these guys are running a bit more than the half watt your radio is putting out. There is only a hand shake agreement about these portions of the band being for RC. Most of the time it is ok and I have never had a problem but.... it is not perfect because we share this band.
73s
Pete
Old 06-13-2011, 06:43 PM
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Default RE: JR 50Mhz Rx. compatible W/ 53Mhz crystals ?



I think we are experiancing a little bit of topic drift here. I started this thread to learn more about the recievers JR made for the 50 and 53 Mhz bands. I didn't start it to debate the merits of the ham bands, or to justify my use of them.

I was told that the 50 and 53 Mhz systems were not in production at the same time, and that the recievers are identical except for the printing on the outside. Ihave also heard that they aredifferent. I am notvery comfortable tweaking with radio gear, but I havefriends who arevery good at it.

Thank you for your intrest and information about this topic. I am interested to learn more.

Old 06-14-2011, 05:34 AM
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Default RE: JR 50Mhz Rx. compatible W/ 53Mhz crystals ?


ORIGINAL: CarPainter

I think we are experiancing a little bit of topic drift here. I started this thread to learn more about the recievers JR made for the 50 and 53 Mhz bands. I didn't start it to debate the merits of the ham bands, or to justify my use of them.
It is your right to answer or not a given question. That is the beauty of living in this country. I was just curious about the hassle of getting a Ham license for just RC, when there are at least two other ways of enjoying RC without the need for a license. (several more if you start counting 49mhz, 27mhz, bluetooth connectivity, ect.) Makes me wonder what else have you "heard" and you are just following their "advice".

Anyway, I'm outta here since I cannot help with your 50mHz receiver with 53Mhz crystal question. Good luck in your experiments.

Rafael
Old 06-14-2011, 06:10 AM
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Default RE: JR 50Mhz Rx. compatible W/ 53Mhz crystals ?

" I was just curious about the hassle of getting a Ham license for just RC,"

Not just for RC (at least in California). I am allowed to get my vehicle liscence plates that are my call sign. I have had the same plate number since 1956. Never have to look at my vehicle to remember what it is:-))))))))))))))))))))

Les
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Old 06-14-2011, 10:02 AM
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Default RE: JR 50Mhz Rx. compatible W/ 53Mhz crystals ?


ORIGINAL: modeltronics

I still have a couple radios on 6 meters. Don't think that you are 100% safe flying on 6 meters. Give a listen to the band during the VHF contest if conditions are good. There will be all sorts of activity in the portions of the band that we fly from, both on 50 and 53 mhz. And these guys are running a bit more than the half watt your radio is putting out. There is only a hand shake agreement about these portions of the band being for RC. Most of the time it is ok and I have never had a problem but.... it is not perfect because we share this band.
73s
Pete

Has everyone forgotten the inverse square law? The band plans? Physics? Common sense?

???

A contest should *NOT* be on the RC frequencies . . . at least not US operators . . .

A local repearter will *NOT* be allowed on the RC frequencies by the freq. coordinator for that area . . .

Output power means exactly *NOTHING* as to interference! What matters is field strength *AT THE RECEIVING ANTENNA*, nothing more.

10,000 watts at 5000 miles will easily be overcome by 1 watt at 1000 feet . . . it's simple physics!

The stuff you speak of on the US RC channel freqs are largely foreign - the band plan is not international - and as such, due to distance, won't cause any issues at all. RC receivers are pretty low sensitivity compared to what is used for contesting, and likely the RC RX won't even detect the distant signals at all . . .

Myself, I feel safer on 50 that I ever would on 2.4 . . . too many crappy job-bob illegal products on 2.4 that can blow out the spectrum . . . . not to mention crowding . . .

- Tim

Old 06-14-2011, 10:07 AM
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Default RE: JR 50Mhz Rx. compatible W/ 53Mhz crystals ?

The bottom line, as I recall, is that the initial freqs. used were on 53, and due to confilicts, the band plans were modified to give RC use access of a "protected" set of freqs, and thus the 50MHz stuff came into being, and 53 was essentially abandoned for RC. As a HAM licensee, if the 53MHz RX has coils that will allow enough range to retune to 50MHz, then you can legally do so. If you need to modify the 53MHz stuff to run on 50MHz, then you can also legally do so. I know on Berg stuff, the mods to go from 72MHz to 50MHz are not all that extensive, so 53 to 50 ought to be a walk in the park . . .

Not having a schematic for either the 50 or 53 JR to know what (if anything) is different component wise between the two, I can't tell you specifics, but it would not surprise me much if they were identical with the exception of tuning and labeling . . . So open one of each freq. of the same model, and compare components - it should be easy to see any diffs!

Oh, and considering the current band plan, I think you would be best served to put everything on 50, and not 53 . . .

- Tim

ORIGINAL: CarPainter



I think we are experiancing a little bit of topic drift here. I started this thread to learn more about the recievers JR made for the 50 and 53 Mhz bands. I didn't start it to debate the merits of the ham bands, or to justify my use of them.

I was told that the 50 and 53 Mhz systems were not in production at the same time, and that the recievers are identical except for the printing on the outside. I have also heard that they are different. I am not very comfortable tweaking with radio gear, but I have friends who are very good at it.

Thank you for your intrest and information about this topic. I am interested to learn more.

Old 06-14-2011, 08:43 PM
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Default RE: JR 50Mhz Rx. compatible W/ 53Mhz crystals ?



Les, getting my tech. liscence was rather quick and painless. I studied online for about four hours, and then got some help from a friend with a couple of topics. Then took the test. My total time invested was under ten hours. If they still required morse code it would have taken much longer.

Tim, I bought these recievers used and I am wondering if someone has already modified them.Are there any tell-tale signs that a reciever has been retuned? I was told that theprimary RF interferanceproblem with the 53Mhz band was with television signals, and nowthat television signals are digital and on a new frequancy that53Mhzis pretty clear. What do you think?

Old 06-15-2011, 06:11 AM
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modeltronics
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Default RE: JR 50Mhz Rx. compatible W/ 53Mhz crystals ?

CarPainter
The way I understand it is repeaters started to be put up on 53mhz. That is when everything RC started to move to 50 mhz. Now if you look at the band plan on the chart http://www.arrl.org/files/file/Hambands_color.pdf you will see that there is no private place for us to fly on that other hams will not use for another form of transmitting. I still fly on 53 mhz but I own a flying field out in the boonies in centeral TX. When I used to live up north I knew a guy running a pair of 4cx250 on six meters that didnt live too far from a flying field. I did a quick look on the web and there are repeaters on 53 mhz in OR. The ERP of a repeater with a model up in the air might be high enough to cause problems. And there is nothing to stop a ham from keying up on our 50mhz frequencies to call CQDX. It is perfectly legal to do with the existing band plan. I'm not trying to scare you but 6 meters is not bullet proof. I have always liked being able to go to a flying field and be the only one on six meters before 2.4 came into being for flying.

As far as knowing if your receivers can be pushed 3 mhz and still maintain sensitivity and selectivity, I would talk to the techs at Horizon. I do know that the channels on 53 were spaced 100 khz and on 50 spaced at 20 khz so the design of the receivers may be a little different.

Off subject. I always thought that the 1.25 meter band (220 mhz) would have been a great place for hams to use to fly. Because of the lack of ham activity on it we lost part of it.

Congrats on getting the Tech ticket!

73s
Pete
Old 06-15-2011, 06:19 AM
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Default RE: JR 50Mhz Rx. compatible W/ 53Mhz crystals ?

modeltronics -
Were hatt actually the band plan, then I would agree, but it isn't . . . RC is still clearly designated on the *actual* band plan, found at http://www.arrl.org/band-plan-1. Much to my surprise, the 53MHz channels are also still declared as well:

For sharing arrangements, see Section 97.303 of the FCC Rules. For detailed packet frequencies, see March 1988, page 51. Follow this link for phone patch, autopatch and HF/VHF/UHF operating guidelines. Also check out our "Considerate Operator's Frequency Guide"
160 Meters (1.8-2.0 MHz):
1.800 - 2.000 CW
1.800 - 1.810 Digital Modes
1.810 CW QRP
1.843-2.000 SSB, SSTV and other wideband modes
1.910 SSB QRP
1.995 - 2.000 Experimental
1.999 - 2.000 Beacons


80 Meters (3.5-4.0 MHz):
3.590 RTTY/Data DX
3.570-3.600 RTTY/Data
3.790-3.800 DX window
3.845 SSTV
3.885 AM calling frequency


40 Meters (7.0-7.3 MHz):
7.040 RTTY/Data DX
7.080-7.125 RTTY/Data
7.171 SSTV
7.290 AM calling frequency


30 Meters (10.1-10.15 MHz):
10.130-10.140 RTTY
10.140-10.150 Packet


20 Meters (14.0-14.35 MHz):
14.070-14.095 RTTY
14.095-14.0995 Packet
14.100 NCDXF Beacons
14.1005-14.112 Packet
14.230 SSTV
14.286 AM calling frequency


17 Meters (18.068-18.168 MHz):
18.100-18.105 RTTY
18.105-18.110 Packet


15 Meters (21.0-21.45 MHz):
21.070-21.110 RTTY/Data
21.340 SSTV


12 Meters (24.89-24.99 MHz):
24.920-24.925 RTTY
24.925-24.930 Packet


10 Meters (28-29.7 MHz):
28.000-28.070 CW
28.070-28.150 RTTY
28.150-28.190 CW
28.200-28.300 Beacons
28.300-29.300 Phone
28.680 SSTV
29.000-29.200 AM
29.300-29.510 Satellite Downlinks
29.520-29.590 Repeater Inputs
29.600 FM Simplex
29.610-29.700 Repeater Outputs


6 Meters (50-54 MHz):
50.0-50.1 CW, beacons
50.060-50.080 beacon subband
50.1-50.3 SSB, CW
50.10-50.125 DX window
50.125 SSB calling
50.3-50.6 All modes
50.6-50.8 Nonvoice communications
50.62 Digital (packet) calling
50.8-51.0 Radio remote control (20-kHz channels)
51.0-51.1 Pacific DX window
51.12-51.48 Repeater inputs (19 channels)
51.12-51.18 Digital repeater inputs
51.5-51.6

Simplex (six channels)
51.62-51.98 Repeater outputs (19 channels)
51.62-51.68 Digital repeater outputs
52.0-52.48 Repeater inputs (except as noted; 23 channels)
52.02, 52.04 FM simplex
52.2 TEST PAIR (input)
52.5-52.98 Repeater output (except as noted; 23 channels)
52.525 Primary FM simplex
52.54 Secondary FM simplex
52.7 TEST PAIR (output)
53.0-53.48 Repeater inputs (except as noted; 19 channels)
53.0 Remote base FM simplex
53.02 Simplex
53.1, 53.2, 53.3, 53.4 Radio remote control
53.5-53.98 Repeater outputs (except as noted; 19 channels)
53.5, 53.6, 53.7, 53.8 Radio remote control
53.52, 53.9 Simplex


2 Meters (144-148 MHz):
144.00-144.05 EME (CW)
144.05-144.10 General CW and weak signals
144.10-144.20 EME and weak-signal SSB
144.200 National calling frequency
144.200-144.275 General SSB operation
144.275-144.300 Propagation beacons
144.30-144.50 New OSCAR subband
144.50-144.60 Linear translator inputs
144.60-144.90 FM repeater inputs
144.90-145.10 Weak signal and FM simplex (145.01,03,05,07,09 are widely used for packet)
145.10-145.20 Linear translator outputs
145.20-145.50 FM repeater outputs
145.50-145.80 Miscellaneous and experimental modes
145.80-146.00 OSCAR subband
146.01-146.37 Repeater inputs
146.40-146.58 Simplex
146.52 National Simplex Calling Frequency
146.61-146.97 Repeater outputs
147.00-147.39 Repeater outputs
147.42-147.57 Simplex
147.60-147.99 Repeater inputs

Notes: The frequency 146.40 MHz is used in some areas as a repeater input. This band plan has been proposed by the ARRL VHF-UHF Advisory Committee.


1.25 Meters (222-225 MHz):
222.0-222.150 Weak-signal modes
222.0-222.025 EME
222.05-222.06 Propagation beacons
222.1 SSB & CW calling frequency
222.10-222.15 Weak-signal CW & SSB
222.15-222.25 Local coordinator's option; weak signal, ACSB, repeater inputs, control
222.25-223.38 FM repeater inputs only
223.40-223.52 FM simplex
223.52-223.64 Digital, packet
223.64-223.70 Links, control
223.71-223.85 Local coordinator's option; FM simplex, packet, repeater outputs
223.85-224.98 Repeater outputs only

Note: The 222 MHz band plan was adopted by the ARRL Board of Directors in July 1991.


70 Centimeters (420-450 MHz):
420.00-426.00 ATV repeater or simplex with 421.25 MHz video carrier control links and experimental
426.00-432.00 ATV simplex with 427.250-MHz video carrier frequency
432.00-432.07 EME (Earth-Moon-Earth)
432.07-432.10 Weak-signal CW
432.10 70-cm calling frequency
432.10-432.30 Mixed-mode and weak-signal work
432.30-432.40 Propagation beacons
432.40-433.00 Mixed-mode and weak-signal work
433.00-435.00 Auxiliary/repeater links
435.00-438.00 Satellite only (internationally)
438.00-444.00 ATV repeater input with 439.250-MHz video carrier frequency and repeater links
442.00-445.00 Repeater inputs and outputs (local option)
445.00-447.00 Shared by auxiliary and control links, repeaters and simplex (local option)
446.00 National simplex frequency
447.00-450.00 Repeater inputs and outputs (local option)


33 Centimeters (902-928 MHz):
902.0-903.0 Narrow-bandwidth, weak-signal communications
902.0-902.8 SSTV, FAX, ACSSB, experimental
902.1 Weak-signal calling frequency
902.8-903.0 Reserved for EME, CW expansion
903.1 Alternate calling frequency
903.0-906.0 Digital communications
906-909 FM repeater inputs
909-915 ATV
915-918 Digital communications
918-921 FM repeater outputs
921-927 ATV
927-928 FM simplex and links

Note: The 902 MHz band plan was adopted by the ARRL Board of Directors in July 1989


23 Centimeters (1240-1300 MHz):
1240-1246 ATV #1
1246-1248 Narrow-bandwidth FM point-to-point links and digital, duplex with 1258-1260.
1248-1258 Digital Communications
1252-1258 ATV #2
1258-1260 Narrow-bandwidth FM point-to-point links digital, duplexed with 1246-1252
1260-1270 Satellite uplinks, reference WARC '79
1260-1270 Wide-bandwidth experimental, simplex ATV
1270-1276 Repeater inputs, FM and linear, paired with 1282-1288, 239 pairs every 25 kHz, e.g. 1270.025, .050, etc.
1271-1283 Non-coordinated test pair
1276-1282 ATV #3
1282-1288 Repeater outputs, paired with 1270-1276
1288-1294 Wide-bandwidth experimental, simplex ATV
1294-1295 Narrow-bandwidth FM simplex services, 25-kHz channels
1294.5 National FM simplex calling frequency
1295-1297 Narrow bandwidth weak-signal communications (no FM)
1295.0-1295.8 SSTV, FAX, ACSSB, experimental
1295.8-1296.0 Reserved for EME, CW expansion
1296.00-1296.05 EME-exclusive
1296.07-1296.08 CW beacons
1296.1 CW, SSB calling frequency
1296.4-1296.6 Crossband linear translator input
1296.6-1296.8 Crossband linear translator output
1296.8-1297.0 Experimental beacons (exclusive)
1297-1300 Digital Communications


2300-2310 and 2390-2450 MHz:
2300.0-2303.0 High-rate data
2303.0-2303.5 Packet
2303.5-2303.8 TTY packet
2303.9-2303.9 Packet, TTY, CW, EME
2303.9-2304.1 CW, EME
2304.1 Calling frequency
2304.1-2304.2 CW, EME, SSB
2304.2-2304.3 SSB, SSTV, FAX, Packet AM, Amtor
2304.30-2304.32 Propagation beacon network
2304.32-2304.40 General propagation beacons
2304.4-2304.5 SSB, SSTV, ACSSB, FAX, Packet AM, Amtor experimental
2304.5-2304.7 Crossband linear translator input
2304.7-2304.9 Crossband linear translator output
2304.9-2305.0 Experimental beacons
2305.0-2305.2 FM simplex (25 kHz spacing)
2305.20 FM simplex calling frequency
2305.2-2306.0 FM simplex (25 kHz spacing)
2306.0-2309.0 FM Repeaters (25 kHz) input
2309.0-2310.0 Control and auxiliary links
2390.0-2396.0 Fast-scan TV
2396.0-2399.0 High-rate data
2399.0-2399.5 Packet
2399.5-2400.0 Control and auxiliary links
2400.0-2403.0 Satellite
2403.0-2408.0 Satellite high-rate data
2408.0-2410.0 Satellite
2410.0-2413.0 FM repeaters (25 kHz) output
2413.0-2418.0 High-rate data
2418.0-2430.0 Fast-scan TV
2430.0-2433.0 Satellite
2433.0-2438.0 Satellite high-rate data
2438.0-2450.0 WB FM, FSTV, FMTV, SS experimental

Note: The 2300 MHz band plan was adopted by the ARRL Board of Directors in January 1991

Note: The following band plans were adopted by the ARRL Board of Directors in July 1988


3300-3500 MHz:
3456.3-3456.4 Propagation beacons


5650-5925 MHz:
5760.3-5760.4 Propagation beacons


10.00-10.50 GHz:
10.368 Narrow band calling frequency 10.3683-10.3684 Propagation beacons
10.3640 Calling frequency
Old 06-15-2011, 06:34 AM
  #19  
modeltronics
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Default RE: JR 50Mhz Rx. compatible W/ 53Mhz crystals ?

WOW ton of data

What you have is the suggested band plan. This is how the ARRL would "like" people to use the band. Not the way everyone uses it. Not the legal band plan. This is how you must use the band, 50.0 to 50.1 CW...get out the keyer. 50.1 to 54...phone. I would love to see a section of the band reserved for nothing but flying. But it is not.


73s
Pete
Old 06-15-2011, 11:05 AM
  #20  
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Default RE: JR 50Mhz Rx. compatible W/ 53Mhz crystals ?

Try to coordinate a repeater on one of those frequencies and see how "suggested" it is . . . it just ain't gonna happen!

This is *THE* band plan for the US . . . and while not law, HAMs are not like the Children's Band (CB) crowd, and *DO* tend to follow it.

At any rate, I trust it more than I trust 2.4 . . . too many shoddy products in that chunk of spectrum . . .

The *law* also says no high powered non frequency diverse video transmitters on 2.4, but there seems to be a plethora of those illegal devices out there too . . .

- Tim
Old 06-15-2011, 01:05 PM
  #21  
modeltronics
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Default RE: JR 50Mhz Rx. compatible W/ 53Mhz crystals ?

From the ARRL repeater directory. I only spent a minute online and found these so there might be a few more I missed. These are 10 khz from 53.1 the first RC channel on 53. I wonder how those 100 khz spaced receivers would work with a local repeater 10 khz away. Looks like the ARRL, that made the suggested band plan is publishing repeaters for people that do not like to follow the plan. Nothing is bullet proof.

Oak Ridge 53.110 WD4GYN o WD4GYN
Sevierville 53.090- KD4PBC ol PROP KD4PBC
Waverly 53.090- NO4Q NO4Q

Enough of this. I'm going flying
Old 06-16-2011, 06:15 AM
  #22  
LesUyeda
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Default RE: JR 50Mhz Rx. compatible W/ 53Mhz crystals ?

"Les, getting my tech. liscence was rather quick and painless."

So I understand. Things have changed, and not for the better, I fear. Instand gratification reigns supreme:-(((((((((((((

Les

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