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12X Programing Help Needed for Fixed Wing

Old 07-05-2011, 02:58 PM
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Razmo
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Default 12X Programing Help Needed for Fixed Wing

Hey Guys,

The 12X manual doesn't offer much help here. I'm trying to setup a piper pawnee using only the flight mode switch on my JR 12x. Basically, I'd like flight mode N (p0) setup for standard flight (It's easy to affix low rates and/or exponential per flight mode). However, I'd like to setup flight mode 1 (p1) with roughly mid flap and elevator mixing. Then I would like to setup flight mode 2 (p2) with full flap and elevator mixing.

Also, my model is currently setup using the Flap System function, which doesn't offer me the choice of using the flight mode switch...

I may want to add in a few other mixes per flight mode, but I can't figure out how to affix mixes per flight mode. Any help here would be greatly appreciated..

Thanks,
Raz
Old 07-05-2011, 08:29 PM
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Default RE: 12X Programing Help Needed for Fixed Wing



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Old 07-05-2011, 08:32 PM
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Default RE: 12X Programing Help Needed for Fixed Wing



To tie the flap positions to the flight mode is very similar to associating various rates to the flight mode switch. After you have established the flight modes in the DeviceSEL menu (#17) go to the FLAP SYS menu (#66). On the right of the screen is a column labeled Flight Mode. For each of the modes you can choose either to have the flap switch select the flap settingor the flight mode switch position to be one of the three flap settings in the menu.

Aquick way to tie the flap positions to the flight mode is to designate the flap switch as your flight mode switch. If you do, you will lose some flexibility in programming.



In the program mixes set the Pos.1 rates for the mix. On the right hand half of the normal mixes are a bunch of select switches which if they are turned on, the mix’s Pos.1 rates come into play. FM-0, FM-1, FM-2, etc. are the select switches for the flight modes. Pos.0 rates are used when none of the select switches is turned on. The curve mixes work the same except you have to select SW SEL before getting the select switches.



Allan

Old 07-05-2011, 08:41 PM
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Default RE: 12X Programing Help Needed for Fixed Wing

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Old 07-07-2011, 07:39 AM
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Default RE: 12X Programing Help Needed for Fixed Wing

Hi Allan

Wow, this is helpful. I can't tell you how long I've had this on my mind.. I'm still a bit confused, but I'll use what you've told me here to see what I come up with tonight.

Question.... will I be able to tie the flap system menu settings to my flight mode switch versus the flap switch? Currently, I have the Flight Mode Switch function enabled in the DeviceSEL menu, but that's all I've changed. When I go the the FLAP SYSTEM menu, it doesn't allow me to the choice of choosing the Flight Mode switch. I assume this must be because I have not altered the columns on the right side of the screen, you're referring to..

Please correct me if I'm wrong...

Thanks,
Raz
Old 07-07-2011, 09:50 AM
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Default RE: 12X Programing Help Needed for Fixed Wing



I use the flap system on all of my aircraft but I don’t tie the flight modes to the flap system. My power planes are pretty simple. I want the flexibility of having all the flap options for all the modes. As there are only three positions for the flaps with the flap system and I normally use only three flight modes, nine permutations are not hard to keep track of.



In the default condition, the flight modes are all initially controlled by the flap system switch. If you go to the flap system menu after you have set up the flight modes in the Device Sel, you will see that the AUTO column has SW for each of the flight modes listed. Just as an illustration, if you select FM-2 in the AUTO column and press the roller, you will have the option of changing the SW setting to one of the three flap settings, NORM, MID, or LAND. Select LAND. The message on the upper left corner of the screen indicates the flap condition. It will read [66 FLAP System] > NORM (or MID, or LAND). If you are in either FM-0, or FM-1, as you activate the flap switch, the message will change. But if you are in FM-2, the message will read [66 FLAP System] > LAND no manner what the flap switch is.



Allan

Old 07-07-2011, 10:01 AM
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Default RE: 12X Programing Help Needed for Fixed Wing

I'm going to play around with the settings you're referring to tonight, this is a big help...

I don't understand what you mean by, you would rather have the flexibility of having all the flap options for all the modes? I may be misundering, but it sounds as if you don't use the 3 position flight mode switch to activate your flaps. I don't understand.

Thanks,
Raz
Old 07-07-2011, 04:20 PM
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Default RE: 12X Programing Help Needed for Fixed Wing

ORIGINAL: Razmo. . . I don't understand what you mean by, you would rather have the flexibility of having all the flap options for all the modes? I may be misundering, but it sounds as if you don't use the 3 position flight mode switch to activate your flaps. I don't understand.

Thanks,
Raz


That is correct. On my pattern plane the flight mode switch has three positions: one for high rates on elevator, rudder and aileron. I don't use this position as much as the next position which is for low rates on the three surfaces. The last postion is for snap rolls. I have the transmitter set up to perform the snap when the aileron/elevatror stick is pulled to the corner and flight mode #2 is active.

My flap switch is independent of which flight mode is chosen. One position is for no flap. The other two may be flaperon and more flaperon or it may be spoileron and flaperon. It depends on the model.

Allan 
Old 07-08-2011, 07:04 AM
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Default RE: 12X Programing Help Needed for Fixed Wing

Thanks for this Allan, very helpful.

I was able to setup up the flight mode switch for flaps last night, thanks to you. I am still a bit confused as how to incorporate other program mixes per flight mode.

Thanks,
Raz
Old 07-08-2011, 09:54 AM
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Default RE: 12X Programing Help Needed for Fixed Wing



Raz,



Tying the rates to the flight mode is done in the same manner as the flap system. In menu #13, D/R & EXP, on the right side of the screen is an AUTO column which may be covered by the graphics. On the 12X if you tie one set of rates (say Pos4 for the ailerons) to a flight mode (FM-2 for example), then the rudder and elevator will also be tied to the Pos4 rates when the flight mode switch is in FM-2.



As for the other mixes, if you have established flight mode, then the flight modes will be listed as possible select switches. Anytime the flight mode is the same as the ON select switch, then the Pos1 rated in the mixed will be used.



Allan

Old 07-12-2011, 11:47 AM
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Default RE: 12X Programing Help Needed for Fixed Wing

Thanks Allan,

Do you know whether it's possible to active the flight mode settings with the throttle stick..

For example, let's assume that I setup Flight Mode 1 with mid flap and some elevator mixing. I'd basically like for these setting to be activated once the throttle reaches a pre determined input. Or said another way, I want Flight mode 1 active, but I don't want the settings activated until my throttle reaches a predetermined input that I've set up.

Thanks,
Raz
Old 07-12-2011, 02:33 PM
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Default RE: 12X Programing Help Needed for Fixed Wing

It can but only in the ACRO. The primary flight mode has to be one of the switches. After you have made that selection, you can have EXTRA flight modes which can be either one of the normal switches or a stick position switch. I've only played with this and haven't found a real use that couldn't be done simpler without it.

Allan
Old 07-12-2011, 02:37 PM
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Default RE: 12X Programing Help Needed for Fixed Wing

Allan,

Also, I'm simply confused by this menu. [] I don't understand what Pos. 0 is, what turning AND on/off provides, what P0 & P1 means in the top right corner, what activating FM-0 between 0 & 1 means and why it changes the Pos. 0 to Pos. 1 at the top? Any help here would be greatly appreciated..



Thanks,
Raz
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Old 07-13-2011, 07:23 AM
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Default RE: 12X Programing Help Needed for Fixed Wing


ORIGINAL: AWorrest

It can but only in the ACRO. The primary flight mode has to be one of the switches. After you have made that selection, you can have EXTRA flight modes which can be either one of the normal switches or a stick position switch. I've only played with this and haven't found a real use that couldn't be done simpler without it.

Allan
Hey Allan,

I've changed my direction a bit for now, but was toying around last night and was able setup three flight modes (Low rates, high rates and hight rates with expo) separate to that of the flap positions. I thought I should try this first, since I'm not too sure how sensitive I want the control surfaces on final with full flaps for example. You've been very helpful, thanks.

I posted a picture of program mix 3 as an example. I think (not sure though) I'm begining to understand the interface. I think what may be throwing me is, why is there no Pos. 2 listed? Is this menu telling me that program mix 3 is pointed to a two position switch, versus a three position switch? Also, it seems this menu allows me to tie either Pos 0 or Pos1 (of a two position switch) to either a flight mode, flap system tier (norm, mid, land), the gear channel, the rudd 2 channel and a MIX from another program mix. Is that right?

Thanks again,
Nick
Old 07-13-2011, 10:20 AM
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Default RE: 12X Programing Help Needed for Fixed Wing



Nick,



If I understand you correctly, I think you will need to change your concepts.



The Pos.0 and Pos.1 are two sets of rates for mixing the master into the slave channel. Which set will be used is indicated by the message on the top of the screen. Since it says "[53. PROG. MIX3] > Pos.0", the POS.0 rates set will be used for the conditions when the picture was taken.



Pos.0 rates will occur when there are no select conditions met. If you want the mix full time, then don’t set any of the select switches on the right half of the menu. Then the message on the top of the menu will always read as in your picture.



Pos.1 rates will occur under one of two different circumstances. First consider the AND button is OFF. The select switches pictured are: FM-0 (the flight mode is position 0), FM-1 (the flight mode is position 1), FM-2 (the flight mode is position 2, notice this is the flight mode regardless which switch you use), AX2M (the AUX2 switch is in position 1), AX2D (the AUX2 switch is in position 3) NORM (the flap is in position 0), MID (the flap is in position 1), LAND (the flap is in position 3, like the flight mode select switches these select switches refer to the flap condition and not necessarily the FLAP SW unless you are using it to control the flaps), GEAR (GEAR SW is in position 1), MIX (MIX SW is in position 1), RUD2 (the rudder rate switch is in position 2) and THRO STK. If one or more of the select condition is met, then the Pos.1 rates will come into play. As an example, say you have only GEAR and MIX select switches set on. Then whenever the GEAR SW is in position 1, or the MIX SW is in position 1, or when both are in position 1, the Pos.1 rates are used. Otherwise, the Pos.0 rates for mixing FLAP > RUDD are used. The THRO STK is a throttle stick position select switch when not inhibited. When the stick is less than the value set, the Pos.1 rates are used. When the stick is pushed past the value, the Pos.0 rates are in play.



When the AND is ON, all the select conditions you set have to be met simultaneously before the Pos.1 rates are used. Some AND conditions cannot be made. For example if you turn AND ON, and have FM-0 and FM-1 select switches set, the rates will always stay at Pos.0 as you can’t have two different flight modes the same time. Also the THRO STK is not included in the AND. If it is not inhibited and the stick is lower than the value set, the Pos.1 rates are used regardless what other select conditions are set.



I suggest you play with the select switches and watch the legend at the top of the menu to get an understanding how they work.



Allan

Old 07-13-2011, 07:30 PM
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Default RE: 12X Programing Help Needed for Fixed Wing

Thanks so much for this explanation.

When you say Pos. 0 rates will occur when there is no select condition met. Do you mean, if AND is off and I've only altered Pos. 0 Up/Down rates. Flap will always mix in Rudder per the alterations, no switch necessary, correct?

However, if I adjust Pos. 1 rates and set the LAND to Pos.1 on the right side, then the rudder will be mixed into the Flap LAND when Flap LAND is activated, correct?

Thanks,
Raz
Old 07-13-2011, 08:36 PM
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Default RE: 12X Programing Help Needed for Fixed Wing

ORIGINAL: Razmo

Thanks so much for this explanation.

When you say Pos. 0 rates will occur when there is no select condition met. Do you mean, if AND is off and I've only altered Pos. 0 Up/Down rates. Flap will always mix in Rudder per the alterations, no switch necessary, correct? . . .
Thanks,
Raz
Yes.

However, if I adjust Pos. 1 rates and set the LAND to Pos.1 on the right side, then the rudder will be mixed into the Flap LAND when Flap LAND is activated, correct? . . .
Yes, with a correction that mix master and slave channel don't change, ie., the mix remains FLAP > RUDD. Also if the Flap LAND is not activated then the Flap > RUDD mix rates will be become the Pos.0 rates, assuming no other select switch condition is on.

Allan
Old 07-14-2011, 09:59 AM
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Default RE: 12X Programing Help Needed for Fixed Wing

Allan, thanks again. This information ha been very helpful..

Raz
Old 07-14-2011, 10:14 AM
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Default RE: 12X Programing Help Needed for Fixed Wing


The last postion is for snap rolls. I have the transmitter set up to perform the snap when the aileron/elevatror stick is pulled to the corner and flight mode #2 is active.

Allan
Allan,

By the way, been meaning to ask. When you say you set Flight Mode 2 for Snap. Do you mean that simply set the control surfaces for higher rates or that you only activate higher rates when the stick is at or near the corner?

Sorry for all the questions, this is all very interesting and helpful...

Raz
Old 07-14-2011, 01:10 PM
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Default RE: 12X Programing Help Needed for Fixed Wing

Instead of using one of the eye brow switches or the normal stick position switches for initiating the snap, the snap roll menu has its own stick switches. You can set them up to snap the aileron, elevator, and rudder to a preposition of your choice when any combination of aileron, elevator, and rudder stick is pushed past a given point. As a select condition, flight mode 2 has to be active for this to happen. Actually I'm only using 70% rates when in flight mode 2. I'm still experimenting with this. If I were a really good pilot, I would be using the sticks alone to control the snap.

Allan
Old 07-18-2011, 07:38 AM
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Default RE: 12X Programing Help Needed for Fixed Wing

I see, very interesting. Time is hard to come by these, piloting perfection takes time Thanks again, very helpful..

Raz

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