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Elevators will not sync W/11X

Old 08-10-2011, 12:20 PM
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Citation01
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Default Elevators will not sync W/11X

I have read about every article I can find just so I didn't have to post this question. I have a JR 11X and have flaperon as wing type with split elevators. Naturally one elevator is plugged in to the elev. ch. and the other half is plugged in to aux. 3. There is very little sub trim, just a touch to get arms 90 degrees. The push rods are with in a sixteenth of an inch of being equal length. No matter what I do the elevators WILL NOT TRACK the same. The farther you move the stick, the larger the separation. I have changed end points, travel length and everything else or should say the obvious solutions and hints posted here and other sites.. Never have had this problem and been trying to find where the problem is for almost a week. I am not a computer genius which is a per requisite to own a JR11X. Any, ANY suggestions gladly appreciated. PLEASE

Thank you,
John
Old 08-10-2011, 03:35 PM
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Rob2160
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Default RE: Elevators will not sync W/11X


ORIGINAL: Citation01

I have read about every article I can find just so I didn't have to post this question. I have a JR 11X and have flaperon as wing type with split elevators. Naturally one elevator is plugged in to the elev. ch. and the other half is plugged in to aux. 3. There is very little sub trim, just a touch to get arms 90 degrees. The push rods are with in a sixteenth of an inch of being equal length. No matter what I do the elevators WILL NOT TRACK the same. The farther you move the stick, the larger the separation. I have changed end points, travel length and everything else or should say the obvious solutions and hints posted here and other sites.. Never have had this problem and been trying to find where the problem is for almost a week. I am not a computer genius which is a per requisite to own a JR11X. Any, ANY suggestions gladly appreciated. PLEASE

Thank you,
John
My immediate thoughts are...


1. Are your elevator servos the same brand and type? have you tested the servo throw side by side...

2. are both servos using similar servo horns? Are the pushrods connected to the same hole on the servos? and on the elevator? IE most inner or outer hole for example

3. Is there any binding in the hinge of one of the elevators?

4. Are your servo horns at exactly 90 degreees when neutral?

If all of the above items check out.. then they should move evenly...

you should be able to sync them with the 11x radio using end points

EG.. if they are synced at neutral.. deflect the elevators fully and while holding full deflection adjust the endpoint of one of servos (eg Aux 3) until hte elevators match..

Hope that helps..
Old 08-10-2011, 04:11 PM
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Default RE: Elevators will not sync W/11X

John,

How did you mate AUX3 to your elevator? Did you use the DUAL mate in the Wing Type menu or did you use a program mix? Rob2160 offered some good suggestions if the problem is mechanical. However, you should first check if it is in the way you mated the elevator channels. Take a look at the Monitor menu and see if both channels go the same distance with the stick hard over. If you used the Dual to mate, the channels by default will go in opposite directions. I can think of several ways that using a program mix will cause the channels to move unequally. Also, check the Limit Adj. as well as the Travel Adj.

Allan
Old 08-10-2011, 06:42 PM
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Default RE: Elevators will not sync W/11X

I haven't used a 11X, but I believe it has a Balance function that deals specifically with this problem. if the problem persists you can mix one elevator to the other using a multi-point mix or last resort a matchbox, but you should be able to sole this problem with the radio. that is what all these new-fangled 11-18 channel transmitters are for.
Old 08-11-2011, 03:57 AM
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Default RE: Elevators will not sync W/11X

Hello Rob2160, Super Allan, Brian and any one else thinking of resolve to my issue.

I was so frustrated yesterday that I did what should be done, walked away. So, at this UN-Godly hour(3:15am PST) I am first thanking everyone for all suggestions. Although I am positive about some of the recommendations, I am not going to dismiss anything and essentially start over by checking all measurements, control arms and etc. The other day though I came upon what I thought was something strange and can't figure it out. When I went to set end points (HIGH) I selected one of the elevators and then held the stick back and rotated the thumb wheel thinking only one servo would move. Ironically, they both move however the highlighted one does move faster and more or farther. I thought only one should move. Allan, I have mated the servos using DUAL MATE in WING selections and did not make a mix as we had to do centuries ago. (Though, never had a problem then) At this point I have NO thoughts about using the BALANCE function as Allan will attest my computer radio knowledge is minimal and read it can be a nightmare. Brian, I also am not dismissing your thoughts on a Matchbox or Smart Fly Equalizer(just happen to have one though)because there is no reason to add it in conjunction with the 11X. I throughly understand all my problems with the 11X are my lack of understanding or trying to mix instructions with past computer radios which I pretty much had or kept up, but forced to stop at the 9303 due to a work injury partially disabling me but consequently lost my job and the play money.

Again, thank you all and I will post or message all with findings.

Best,
John
Old 08-11-2011, 04:26 AM
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Default RE: Elevators will not sync W/11X

FOrgive me as I know nothing of your radio... but why would wing type have anything to do with the ELE?
You would want to use a Ailevator mix or something similar for the ELE....

also a multi point mix may be an option....
Old 08-11-2011, 05:22 AM
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Default RE: Elevators will not sync W/11X

ORIGINAL: Brian Dorff

I haven't used a 11X, but I believe it has a Balance function that deals specifically with this problem. if the problem persists you can mix one elevator to the other using a multi-point mix or last resort a matchbox, but you should be able to sole this problem with the radio. that is what all these new-fangled 11-18 channel transmitters are for.
Not at all, balance is for running multiple servos on the same surface so the servos don't fight each other. IE: 2 servos ganged on a rudder, or multiple servos on one aileron.

Curtis, hush, the 11x does away with that nonsense. You select the elevator channel, go to wing type and assign a mate and trim and mixing follows automatically, no playing with Pmixs or functions like flappersons if you dont need them, its a simple way to set up dual elevator servos, dual aileron servos or whatever.


Follow what Allan said, start at the monitor screen and see whats going on there, that will tell you if its a radio or mechanical problem.

Then make sure you haven't confused limit adjust and travel adjust while tinkering.

My guess is radio but it shouldn't be hard to narrow down.
Old 08-11-2011, 05:47 AM
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Default RE: Elevators will not sync W/11X


ORIGINAL: BarracudaHockey
Not at all, balance is for running multiple servos on the same surface so the servos don't fight each other. IE: 2 servos ganged on a rudder, or multiple servos on one aileron.
Pretty sure the servos don't know if they are attached to the same surface or not
Old 08-11-2011, 05:55 AM
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Default RE: Elevators will not sync W/11X


ORIGINAL: Brian Dorff


ORIGINAL: BarracudaHockey
Not at all, balance is for running multiple servos on the same surface so the servos don't fight each other. IE: 2 servos ganged on a rudder, or multiple servos on one aileron.
Pretty sure the servos don't know if they are attached to the same surface or not
Umm.... Not helpful Brian....

The balance function provides a means of matching servos throughout their travel range at multiple points, something a Matchbox cannot do.

The preliminary information the OP gave as well as some suggestions already made, would seem to indicate that the OP may be confusing travel adjust with limit adjust settings as Andy noted.
Old 08-11-2011, 06:02 AM
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Default RE: Elevators will not sync W/11X


ORIGINAL: BarracudaHockey



Curtis, hush, the 11x does away with that nonsense. You select the elevator channel, go to wing type and assign a mate and trim and mixing follows automatically, no playing with Pmixs or functions like flappersons if you dont need them, its a simple way to set up dual elevator servos, dual aileron servos or whatever.



that's what I was getting at... I assumed there was a built in mix for it...
the OP had mentioned flaperons a couple times and I didn't think that was the right road to go down.

a pmix may still be an option if the servos are different speeds... it is important to find servos with similar speed and throw...yes, servos of the exact same brand and model can be different.....
Old 08-11-2011, 06:27 AM
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Default RE: Elevators will not sync W/11X

It's pretty cool, you just set a mate and they synch up, no messing with rates up and down or worrying about the slave following trim or mixing inputs. It even re-labels it in the menus as L-AIL and R-AIL instead of AIL and AUX1 or whatever. Same with the elevators, it says R-ELE and L-ELE

You also dont have to worry about some slider yanking the "flaps" down by mistake (seen that one) because the flap mix part of flapperon mixing wasnt 0'd out.
Old 08-11-2011, 09:08 AM
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Default RE: Elevators will not sync W/11X


ORIGINAL: exeter_acres

FOrgive me as I know nothing of your radio... but why would wing type have anything to do with the ELE?
You would want to use a Ailevator mix or something similar for the ELE....
The Wing Type menu does a lot more than control the ailerons and flaps. Besides wing types, the tail types are also set up there. DUAL, the lower half of the menu, is used to mate other channels to the aileron, elevator, rudder, flap and throttle channels. If the elevator is not mated to AUX3 using the DUAL function but is mated by a program mix, the BALANCE function is not available.

As John is using the DUAL function instead of a program mix, I won't describe several ways that come quickly to mind how using a program mix could cause different travel. There is no point to using a Matchbox or equalizer. As I understand those devices, the 11X BALANCE does the same thing but with more points of adjustments.

Citation01

. . . The other day though I came upon what I thought was something strange and can't figure it out. When I went to set end points (HIGH) I selected one of the elevators and then held the stick back and rotated the thumb wheel thinking only one servo would move. Ironically, they both move however the highlighted one does move faster and more or farther. I thought only one should move. . . .
This is strange as I wasn't able to duplicate this with my 11X and a couple of servos on the bench. With my equipment, only one servo moved when adjusting an endpoint in the TRAVEL ADJ. This may be a clue to your problem. If you have a card reader you could store your program on the SD card, transfer it to your computer and then upload it to the forum as a zip file. I would be curious to see what your program is doing.

Allan
Old 08-11-2011, 10:57 AM
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Default RE: Elevators will not sync W/11X

I've been trying to figure out how to make my 12x do a auto dual rudder rate by the throttle. No luck so far.

Tim
Old 08-11-2011, 11:40 AM
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Default RE: Elevators will not sync W/11X

All contributors to my post<

I have removed the servos from plane, made a mount w/center hole for output shaft and housing w/180 degree compass and measured degrees of travel on each servo. Of course, they measured identical degrees of travel.

You did ask me to view the monitor which I did and you said elev and aux 3 should move opposite by default. They both move the same but in the same direction which I assumed is because I reversed ch.or aux3 so it would move in unison with elev ch.

Back on the mechanical end, I again measured the push rods and control horns and they are same height and both on hinge centerline.

Well, for the umteenth time I am going to get your notes and Barracudahockeys notes and go through the radio again. Has to be an OVER SIGHT or probably something STUPID ON MY PART!!

Been a long HOT day. Screens are starting to look the same. Early morning catching up


Thank you every one!!!
Old 08-11-2011, 01:53 PM
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Default RE: Elevators will not sync W/11X

remember...like I mentioned.. 2 servos, even same brand and type can move at different speeds....

did you look at that ?
Old 08-11-2011, 02:55 PM
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Default RE: Elevators will not sync W/11X

At different speeds they should sooner or later meet at the same point given the input stopped.

Tim
Old 08-12-2011, 04:41 AM
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Default RE: Elevators will not sync W/11X


ORIGINAL: Citation01

All contributors to my post<

I have removed the servos from plane, made a mount w/center hole for output shaft and housing w/180 degree compass and measured degrees of travel on each servo. Of course, they measured identical degrees of travel.

You did ask me to view the monitor which I did and you said elev and aux 3 should move opposite by default. They both move the same but in the same direction which I assumed is because I reversed ch.or aux3 so it would move in unison with elev ch.

Back on the mechanical end, I again measured the push rods and control horns and they are same height and both on hinge centerline.

Well, for the umteenth time I am going to get your notes and Barracudahockeys notes and go through the radio again. Has to be an OVER SIGHT or probably something STUPID ON MY PART!!

Been a long HOT day. Screens are starting to look the same. Early morning catching up


Thank you every one!!!
Ah... we've ALL been there at one time or another and sometimes it's best to just walk away for a bit....

If you're really fighting this thing which it sounds like you are, suggest you go to a clean model slot and create a new model setup which you could initially just do the elevators. If that works, then you've got a mix or something else in the original setup causing your issues. That technique is suggested in numerous places around the Internet and it's solved programming problems for me on more than one occasion.
Old 08-12-2011, 06:08 AM
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Default RE: Elevators will not sync W/11X

Zeeb,

Thank you and that is exactly what I am going to do. The wife is on school vacation so I think I'll just forget planes and go for a nice ride and start fresh when I know I will have no disturbances.

Again, thank you all and when I get plane back together, reprogram radio, I'll post results though I not optimistic as I didn't find anything with the servos which I tested w/programmer and really thought was the problem but they are identical twins.

Thanks,
John
Old 08-12-2011, 07:02 AM
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Default RE: Elevators will not sync W/11X

Dump the program and zip it up, we will get you going.

Though good husband points are always useful I'm spending half my flying weekend on earning good boyfriend points.
Old 08-26-2011, 03:53 AM
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Default RE: Elevators will not sync W/11X


Many thanks to every one who contributed to helping me solve my issue that elevators won't remain equal at any end point or even move the same arc if you will.

I had left off that I removed the servos from the plane and was going to check them on my Hitec Programmer. Well, the results were that the two servos were not even close or in the same game as far as being programmed the same. Mind you, both servos purchased at same time. Learned a lesson here to save lots of hair pulling and etc. which is take NOTHING for granted. Programmed both servos, installed and worked perfectly.

A great thanks to AWorrest, BarracudaHockey who helped to the finish. Also, many thanks to all other contributors as their suggestions did help getting things correct.

Best regards,
John

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