Notices
RC Radios, Transmitters, Receivers, Servos, gyros Discussion all about rc radios, transmitters, receivers, servos, etc.

Karbonite with gasser?

Old 01-14-2012, 08:43 AM
  #1  
vertical grimmace
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (1)
 
vertical grimmace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: ft collins , CO
Posts: 7,246
Received 10 Likes on 9 Posts
Default Karbonite with gasser?

So now after all of these years, what is the verdict on using Hitec Karbonite geared servos with a gas engine? I have an Ultimate biplane I want to install 4 of the older digital karbonite geared servos in. It has a DL 50 engine. Has anyone experienced a failure do to vibration?
Old 01-14-2012, 10:39 AM
  #2  
A.T.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Auckland, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 2,581
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Karbonite with gasser?


ORIGINAL: vertical grimmace So now after all of these years, what is the verdict on using Hitec Karbonite geared servos with a gas engine? I have an Ultimate biplane I want to install 4 of the older digital karbonite geared servos in. It has a DL 50 engine. Has anyone experienced a failure do to vibration?
Not recommended for use with anypetrolmotors, especially of that size.
For best information refer to the specifications for each servo under consideration.
Hitec Servo - FAQ
Previous similar thread

Alan T.
Alan's Hobby, Model & RC FAQ Web Links
Old 01-14-2012, 08:51 PM
  #3  
vertical grimmace
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (1)
 
vertical grimmace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: ft collins , CO
Posts: 7,246
Received 10 Likes on 9 Posts
Default RE: Karbonite with gasser?

Kind of sucks they offer so many Karbonite geared servos, with really god stats, but they are not useable with gas engines. Kind of a shame.
Old 01-15-2012, 12:00 AM
  #4  
TimBle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Cape Town, SOUTH AFRICA
Posts: 2,744
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Karbonite with gasser?

are the Hitec gears too brittle?
Old 01-15-2012, 12:37 AM
  #5  
A.T.
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Auckland, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 2,581
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Karbonite with gasser?


ORIGINAL: TimBle are the Hitec gears too brittle?
Would not say they are "Brittle" as less likely than the stanard nylon/plastic gears to shear,
they will as in the same manner as all other similar materieals when subject to
sudden shock loads or vibration.

Karboniote Gear Train
Found in all the "HD" (Heavy-Duty) and "HB" (Heavy-Duty Ball Bearing) servos.
"Karbonite" gears are four times stronger than our standard nylon gears and offer virtually ZERO wear;
even after 250,000 cycles when tested!


HS-5485HB
Features;
Applications: Heli's and Aircraft up to 72” or up to 12lbs when using just one servo per control surface.
Note: Be aware that high vibration gas (not glow) engines combined with large control surfaces and large throws
(3D models) can put undue strain on the gears.
Metal geared servos are recommended for these applications even if under 12lbs.]

refer charts under
<dt>Servo - Horn Arm Spline Count and Inter Brand Compatibility

Alan T.
Alan's Hobby, Model & RC FAQ Web Links</dt>
Old 01-15-2012, 05:08 AM
  #6  
TimBle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Cape Town, SOUTH AFRICA
Posts: 2,744
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Karbonite with gasser?

so if they're better than nylon and nylon is adequate for use in Gassers applications, why is karbonite unsuitable?
Old 01-15-2012, 05:46 AM
  #7  
s3nfo
My Feedback: (14)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 896
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Karbonite with gasser?

And the application you quoted specifies 3D aircraft with large control surfaces, not all gassers.
Old 01-15-2012, 08:15 AM
  #8  
1320Fastback
Senior Member
 
1320Fastback's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Northern Occupied Mexico, CA
Posts: 998
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Karbonite with gasser?

Isnt Karbonite not flexible.

So a nylon gear in a gasser would have a little give but Not break, and a Karbonite gear would have no give and shear teeth.

I think it's the constant heavy vibrations that would destroy the Karbonite gears.
Old 01-15-2012, 08:51 AM
  #9  
TimBle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Cape Town, SOUTH AFRICA
Posts: 2,744
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Karbonite with gasser?

karbonite is nylon 66 with carbon filler and I beleive a lower percentage of Molybdenum disulphide than vesconite.
Nylon's with these fillers exhibit better tensile compressive and shear strength than std Nylon 66.
Yes it is less flexible but it is much more durable that nylon 66. and it has better temperature performance and superior friction properties.

Hence I am really confused wrt to the assertions that karbonites gears are not suitable for gassers. 

I am starting to believe its a problem related to a brand of servo and not a blanket problem with "carbonite"
Old 01-15-2012, 01:33 PM
  #10  
gofast53
Senior Member
 
gofast53's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: PUKEKOHE, NEW ZEALAND
Posts: 245
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Karbonite with gasser?

Ugly Stick 60 with a DLE20 gasser and std cheap futaba servos with nylon gears. Has done over 100 flights and to date no problems. But I would not recommend using them on anything larger and more expensive, especially where there is a lot of aerobatics involved. Orignal setup was with an OS .61 and which had more vibration than the DLE.
I use to race RC gas boats and found that the karbonite gears were not as resilient as the nylon ones when used for the rudder.
Old 01-16-2012, 08:33 AM
  #11  
Zeeb
My Feedback: (41)
 
Zeeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: St George, Utah UT
Posts: 5,496
Received 46 Likes on 35 Posts
Default RE: Karbonite with gasser?

Hitec has maintained that the Karbonite geared servos are not to be used on gassers, models with over a 72" wing span or a weight over 12lbs. virtually since those servos came out.

If you "guys" want to ignore the manufacturer's recommendations then go for it but speculating here or relating stories of how you've successfully ignored the recommendations does not change them.
Old 01-16-2012, 10:18 AM
  #12  
dant-RCU
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
dant-RCU's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 803
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Karbonite with gasser?

+1
Old 01-16-2012, 01:31 PM
  #13  
BarracudaHockey
My Feedback: (11)
 
BarracudaHockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 25,805
Received 210 Likes on 169 Posts
Default RE: Karbonite with gasser?

What Zeeb said
Old 01-16-2012, 01:51 PM
  #14  
TimBle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Cape Town, SOUTH AFRICA
Posts: 2,744
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Karbonite with gasser?

THanks Zeeb, I am trying to understand why Hitec does not recommend Karbonite gears with Over 72" span gassers. What is the science behind their fear.
Old 01-16-2012, 02:55 PM
  #15  
snuts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: camrose alberta, AB, CANADA
Posts: 514
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Karbonite with gasser?

When dealing with people who will try and do the most with the least. It is always best to suggest limits

Hope this helps,
-Snuts-
Old 01-17-2012, 02:43 AM
  #16  
Pippin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: College Park, MD
Posts: 671
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Karbonite with gasser?

Is it wing span and weight that sets the limits or engine power? Anyone who would put the servos in a 30cc glow powered model?
Old 01-17-2012, 08:02 AM
  #17  
TimBle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Cape Town, SOUTH AFRICA
Posts: 2,744
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Karbonite with gasser?

There are folk flying 50cc with analogue high torque nylon geared servo's. They have not fallen from the sky yet.
Hence the question remainsm, why the recommendation for metal gears. Is it just marketing. Metal gears are clearly stronger and tough, but they ear develop slo and they impact laod they then experience is high. Tight fitting karbonite or nylon does nto waear nearly as fast and theres less impact load due to vibration.
I'd like someone to speak sense and not " because they told you so". That's so junior school in approach
Old 01-17-2012, 09:28 AM
  #18  
rlmcnii
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Pocomoke City, MD
Posts: 525
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Karbonite with gasser?

I am aware of HiTec's recommendations for the use of their servos with karbonite gears: one servo per surface per 12 pounds of airframe weight and no usage in gassers. WHY do they manufacture, and sell, something like the 7975HB?? It is a 144 in./oz. servo. Just right for a 10 pound .60 glow machine!!! One wonders.
Old 01-17-2012, 10:10 AM
  #19  
snuts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: camrose alberta, AB, CANADA
Posts: 514
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Karbonite with gasser?

And fast at .10sec @ 6V. Perfect for 15lb, 147inch glider elevator. There is more than gas & glow in the servo world

-Snuts-
Old 01-17-2012, 10:42 AM
  #20  
TimBle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Cape Town, SOUTH AFRICA
Posts: 2,744
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Karbonite with gasser?

so the servos are high load capable but cannot be used on a gasser....

smacks of brittle plastic to me...

Hitec servo's; "Load me but don't shake me I break like a porcelain doll"

Old 01-17-2012, 10:54 AM
  #21  
snuts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: camrose alberta, AB, CANADA
Posts: 514
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Karbonite with gasser?

Sounds like metal gear servo's would work for you.
I use both metal, and nylon gear servo's in my gassers, depending on application. Hell I even use metal gear servo's in my gliders. After experiancing hanger rash on rudders, all metal gear rudder servo's.

Hope this helps

-Snuts-
Old 01-17-2012, 02:25 PM
  #22  
rlmcnii
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Pocomoke City, MD
Posts: 525
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Karbonite with gasser?


ORIGINAL: snuts

And fast at .10sec @ 6V. Perfect for 15lb, 147inch glider elevator. There is more than gas & glow in the servo world

-Snuts-
Never thought of gliders! Enlightenment helps. Thanks
Old 01-17-2012, 02:28 PM
  #23  
BuschBarber
My Feedback: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 4,760
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Karbonite with gasser?


ORIGINAL: rlmcnii


ORIGINAL: snuts

And fast at .10sec @ 6V. Perfect for 15lb, 147inch glider elevator. There is more than gas & glow in the servo world

-Snuts-
Never thought of gliders! Enlightenment helps. Thanks
I have 20lb Electrics and there are 40lb Electrics at our field.
Old 01-17-2012, 02:38 PM
  #24  
rlmcnii
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Pocomoke City, MD
Posts: 525
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Karbonite with gasser?


ORIGINAL: BuschBarber


ORIGINAL: rlmcnii


ORIGINAL: snuts

And fast at .10sec @ 6V. Perfect for 15lb, 147inch glider elevator. There is more than gas & glow in the servo world

-Snuts-
Never thought of gliders! Enlightenment helps. Thanks
I have 20lb Electrics and there are 40lb Electrics at our field.
The one servo per surface per 12 pounds of airframe weight still applies?
Old 01-17-2012, 02:42 PM
  #25  
BuschBarber
My Feedback: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 4,760
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Karbonite with gasser?


ORIGINAL: rlmcnii


ORIGINAL: BuschBarber


ORIGINAL: rlmcnii


ORIGINAL: snuts

And fast at .10sec @ 6V. Perfect for 15lb, 147inch glider elevator. There is more than gas & glow in the servo world

-Snuts-
Never thought of gliders! Enlightenment helps. Thanks
I have 20lb Electrics and there are 40lb Electrics at our field.
The one servo per surface per 12 pounds of airframe weight still applies?
I agree. I use Metal Gear servos on all my Gas, Glow, and Electric aircraft over 10lbs. I was just responding to the statement that there was more than Gas and Glow aircraft out there.

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.