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Spektrum vs. Futaba?

Old 02-22-2012, 09:31 AM
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abcarr711
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Default Spektrum vs. Futaba?

I know there is debate on this subject and people are brand loyal. 20 years ago I was a Futaba fan. I left the hobby for about 15 years while my kids were growing and got back in a couple years ago. I heard a lot of good things about Spektrum and checked them out. I ended up buying a DX8 when it came with two AR8000, 8 channel receivers. I was impressed with its ease of use and ended up ordering a second one as a backup a few months later while the 2nd receiver was still an option.

So I have four 8 channel Spektrum receivers with Satelite receivers. Two of them are marked DSM2, the other two are marked DSMX. I installed the last unused receiver (labeled as a DSM2 model) in a brand new H9 Extra 260 with a DLE 55. Bound the transmitter, completed battery check, range check, set throws, etc. Did my preflight at the field with another range check and off we flew on our maiden flight. Landed, and flew again and landed. No issues, a great day.

A week later I took the 260 out for a second time. The preflight and range check went well, no issues. The first flight of the day went well. On the second flight, while doing a medium speed pass about 12 feet over the runway, the plane jerked right and nosed into the ground. It didn't make sense. Several people saw the crash and either blamed the radio or suggested a servo locked up. I sent the servos to HiTec. They were very gracious and check out the servos and replaced the gears on one of the servos at no charge. Great kudos to Hitec/ They care about my business and future purchases.

After getting the servos back, I sent the AR8000 w/satelite receiver still plugged into the receiver back to Horizon Hobby for inspection. After the crash it would not bind. Remember this was a DSM2 AR8000 receiver. According to my tracking number from the UPS, Horizon received my package on the morning of February 13. It was not "checked in" to their system until the 14th. On Tuesday, February 21, I received an email and an invoice that states:

"Found a DSM2 remote attached to the submitted AR8000 receiver. The AR8000 receiver is a DSMX receiver, even though the AR8000 rec. is not labeled as such."

Huh? The receiver and the satelite receiver are both labelled DSM2 and came together with my DX8 radio! Seems to be a problem here.

Their invoice continues: "DSM2 remote receivers are not compatible with DSMX receivers. Also DSMX remote receivers are note compatible with DSM2 receivers. The remote rec. are note interchangible."

That is quoted exactly as written.

So it appears that my AR8000 is a DSMX receiver, although clearly marked as a DSM2 Receiver and my satelite receiver is a DSM2 receiver, clearly marked as a DSM2 Receiver. So Spektrum mixed them when put in my radio, but they bound, something they say can't happen but I had three successful flights before the ill-fated forth with the crash. Now thy tell me the satelite and receiver are not compatible with each other and won't bind. Huh?

Trying to shorten my story, Horizon shipped me a free DSMX satelite receiver to go with my clearly marked DSM2 AR8000 that they claim is actually a DSMX AR8000. Obviously they know something was wrong, but they told me by phone it was a gesture of good will for them send me a new DSMX satelite receiver so I could use the AR8000. When asked about helping with a replacement plane due to the receiver problem, I was quoted the owner's manual where it states "collateral" damage is not covered.

I am very frustrated and ready to go back to Futaba radios. Anyone else had a similar event?
Old 02-22-2012, 09:48 AM
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BuschBarber
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Default RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?


ORIGINAL: abcarr711

I know there is debate on this subject and people are brand loyal. 20 years ago I was a Futaba fan. I left the hobby for about 15 years while my kids were growing and got back in a couple years ago. I heard a lot of good things about Spektrum and checked them out. I ended up buying a DX8 when it came with two AR8000, 8 channel receivers. I was impressed with its ease of use and ended up ordering a second one as a backup a few months later while the 2nd receiver was still an option.

So I have four 8 channel Spektrum receivers with Satelite receivers. Two of them are marked DSM2, the other two are marked DSMX. I installed the last unused receiver (labeled as a DSM2 model) in a brand new H9 Extra 260 with a DLE 55. Bound the transmitter, completed battery check, range check, set throws, etc. Did my preflight at the field with another range check and off we flew on our maiden flight. Landed, and flew again and landed. No issues, a great day.

A week later I took the 260 out for a second time. The preflight and range check went well, no issues. The first flight of the day went well. On the second flight, while doing a medium speed pass about 12 feet over the runway, the plane jerked right and nosed into the ground. It didn't make sense. Several people saw the crash and either blamed the radio or suggested a servo locked up. I sent the servos to HiTec. They were very gracious and check out the servos and replaced the gears on one of the servos at no charge. Great kudos to Hitec/ They care about my business and future purchases.

After getting the servos back, I sent the AR8000 w/satelite receiver still plugged into the receiver back to Horizon Hobby for inspection. After the crash it would not bind. Remember this was a DSM2 AR8000 receiver. According to my tracking number from the UPS, Horizon received my package on the morning of February 13. It was not ''checked in'' to their system until the 14th. On Tuesday, February 21, I received an email and an invoice that states:

''Found a DSM2 remote attached to the submitted AR8000 receiver. The AR8000 receiver is a DSMX receiver, even though the AR8000 rec. is not labeled as such.''

Huh? The receiver and the satelite receiver are both labelled DSM2 and came together with my DX8 radio! Seems to be a problem here.

Their invoice continues: ''DSM2 remote receivers are not compatible with DSMX receivers. Also DSMX remote receivers are note compatible with DSM2 receivers. The remote rec. are note interchangible.''

That is quoted exactly as written.

So it appears that my AR8000 is a DSMX receiver, although clearly marked as a DSM2 Receiver and my satelite receiver is a DSM2 receiver, clearly marked as a DSM2 Receiver. So Spektrum mixed them when put in my radio, but they bound, something they say can't happen but I had three successful flights before the ill-fated forth with the crash. Now thy tell me the satelite and receiver are not compatible with each other and won't bind. Huh?

Trying to shorten my story, Horizon shipped me a free DSMX satelite receiver to go with my clearly marked DSM2 AR8000 that they claim is actually a DSMX AR8000. Obviously they know something was wrong, but they told me by phone it was a gesture of good will for them send me a new DSMX satelite receiver so I could use the AR8000. When asked about helping with a replacement plane due to the receiver problem, I was quoted the owner's manual where it states ''collateral'' damage is not covered.

I am very frustrated and ready to go back to Futaba radios. Anyone else had a similar event?
The first AR8000 Rx's were marked DSM2 because DSMX had not been announced, yet.
Old 02-22-2012, 09:59 AM
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abcarr711
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Default RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?

Pretty bad marketing on their part.  How many thousands of AR8000s are there with DSM2 markings?  People will mix the Satelite receivers with others marked DSM2.  Causing other problems.  Spektrum should maked them correctly and made an announcement or they should have sent out an email or technical bulletin advising registered owners they were marked wrong.
Old 02-22-2012, 10:34 AM
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Default RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?

Keep in mind planes crash with futaba gear too.
Old 02-22-2012, 10:56 AM
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Default RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?

Did you play musical remote's or is the one that was on the 8000 the one it came with?

What radio are you using?
Old 02-22-2012, 11:01 AM
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Default RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?


ORIGINAL: mighty9

Keep in mind planes crash with futaba gear too.
Never!
Old 02-22-2012, 11:14 AM
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Default RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?


ORIGINAL: abcarr711

Pretty bad marketing on their part. How many thousands of AR8000s are there with DSM2 markings? People will mix the Satelite receivers with others marked DSM2. Causing other problems. Spektrum should maked them correctly and made an announcement or they should have sent out an email or technical bulletin advising registered owners they were marked wrong.
We did.

Look at the PID on the remote. Most (there were a few real early ones that didn't) will have an X in it. That was our indicator that they were DSMX even though they label says DSM2.

ALL AR8000's are DSM2, as are ALL AR600's and AR6255's. If you use the remote that came with your AR8000 you're fine.

Sometimes we let mere humans work in Service, and they make mistakes. It happens, I'm sorry it apparently happened in this instance with your service claim.

Next question - have you checked your DX8's against the Service Bulletin? What version of AirWare are you using?

Hope this helps!

Andy
Old 02-22-2012, 01:36 PM
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Default RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?


ORIGINAL: AndyKunz


ORIGINAL: abcarr711

Pretty bad marketing on their part. How many thousands of AR8000s are there with DSM2 markings? People will mix the Satelite receivers with others marked DSM2. Causing other problems. Spektrum should maked them correctly and made an announcement or they should have sent out an email or technical bulletin advising registered owners they were marked wrong.
We did.

Look at the PID on the remote. Most (there were a few real early ones that didn't) will have an X in it. That was our indicator that they were DSMX even though they label says DSM2.

ALL AR8000's are DSM2, as are ALL AR600's and AR6255's. If you use the remote that came with your AR8000 you're fine.

Sometimes we let mere humans work in Service, and they make mistakes. It happens, I'm sorry it apparently happened in this instance with your service claim.

Next question - have you checked your DX8's against the Service Bulletin? What version of AirWare are you using?

Hope this helps!

Andy
Shouldnt that say "all AR8000's are DSMX" ?
Old 02-22-2012, 02:25 PM
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Default RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?


[/quote]

We did.

Look at the PID on the remote. Most (there were a few real early ones that didn't) will have an X in it. That was our indicator that they were DSMX even though they label says DSM2.

ALL AR8000's are DSM2, as are ALL AR600's and AR6255's. If you use the remote that came with your AR8000 you're fine.

Sometimes we let mere humans work in Service, and they make mistakes. It happens, I'm sorry it apparently happened in this instance with your service claim.

Next question - have you checked your DX8's against the Service Bulletin? What version of AirWare are you using?

Hope this helps!

Andy

[/quote]



Is it just me or is the fact that Spectrum puts on a known label with the wrong product code onto a Rx sound just asinine, even if they add an X to it. How hard is it to print up new labels and slap it on before it heads out to the consumer. Don't even need to take the old label off, stick the right info over top so people don't lose thousands of dollars and hours of their time because of a Spectrum screw-up at the factory or a willingness to ship a Rx out before the new DSMX has been announced.

And then HH in all their wisdom says to look up the radio's service bulletin to check and see if in fact it was the radio that caused the crash, or should I say the consumer caused crash because he didn't check the service bulletin. This is getting to the point that it is actually funny, except to the OP which is still out of a perfectly good plane.

Oh but wait, sorry we are human, hope this helps!!!! LOL
Old 02-22-2012, 04:58 PM
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abcarr711
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Default RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?

Yes, this is the receiver and the remote that came together from Spektrum in the box.  Both radios are DX8.  Both radios are registered with Spektrum and have been regularly updated once the update came out of beta testing.  With the investment, I didn't want to be a guinea pig.

The biggest problem I have is that there is misrepresentation here.  Even if they claim I got a better receiver than it was marked.  They will not even admit that it is possible that they packaged the wrong satelite receiver with the AR8000.  Both are marked DSM2.  How hard is it for a human in a factory in China, who most likely doesn't read English to put an identical looking part with English writing/numbers in the wrong box?  I know I can't read Chinese and could have done this if I was packaging products for their market.

Fact is, the receiver with the DSM2 remote bound to the radio and flew four times, the fourth ending in tragedy.  However, the pilot did survive, although he had to be surgically removed from what was left of the cockpit.

Anyone want to buy a never used DX8 radio that was my backup?
Old 02-22-2012, 05:09 PM
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abcarr711
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Default RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?

And I double checked the radio.  I am running Airwave 2.04, the most recent version on their website.
Old 02-22-2012, 05:21 PM
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abcarr711
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Default RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?

I'll double check the PID on the remote when I get it back and report it back here.  It is in transit from HH.
Old 02-22-2012, 08:34 PM
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Default RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?


ORIGINAL: BarracudaHockey


ORIGINAL: AndyKunz


ORIGINAL: abcarr711

Pretty bad marketing on their part. How many thousands of AR8000s are there with DSM2 markings? People will mix the Satelite receivers with others marked DSM2. Causing other problems. Spektrum should maked them correctly and made an announcement or they should have sent out an email or technical bulletin advising registered owners they were marked wrong.
We did.

Look at the PID on the remote. Most (there were a few real early ones that didn't) will have an X in it. That was our indicator that they were DSMX even though they label says DSM2.

ALL AR8000's are DSM2, as are ALL AR600's and AR6255's. If you use the remote that came with your AR8000 you're fine.

Sometimes we let mere humans work in Service, and they make mistakes. It happens, I'm sorry it apparently happened in this instance with your service claim.

Next question - have you checked your DX8's against the Service Bulletin? What version of AirWare are you using?

Hope this helps!

Andy
Shouldnt that say ''all AR8000's are DSMX'' ?
Yes, my error. Chop my fingers off, Cuda!!

I don't mean to imply that our techs routinely make mistakes - in fact, they're very good and they're a great resource and have corrected other mistakes I've made. If the tech says that the remote was DSM2, he knows what he's talking about. Offline I found that he had done more testing, and in fact the remote was not a DSMX remote. Is it possible that there was a mixup somewhere when sending the stuff in? I've made that same mistake myself (all my DSMX remotes get a big X from a magic marker on the back now as they come out of planes). Shoot, and getting caught with about the stupidest error above just drives the point home that I'm fallible.

Good on the version info, 2.04 is what you want to run.

Andy
Old 02-22-2012, 10:41 PM
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Default RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?

Just go back to Futaba and just worry about flying.... 8FG Super is an excellent choice.

-Chuck
Old 02-22-2012, 10:49 PM
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Default RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?

So let me get this straight...the guy crashes his plane, takes the airborne components out and sends them to their respective companies to have them checked over and somehow (magically most probably) one of the receiver items gets swapped? I'll admit, I've done some really stupid things in my life but never have I mixed up something I was sending to have checked out. Especially when it came out of something that was in pieces. I can see it now, OK, I'm sending in my radio, let me just swap this piece out first to mess them up when they test it and confuse the issue. Yeah right.

I don't find this to be a very responsible position for any company to take but if I might digress, I had a similar situation with the service department at Horizon back in 2009. I bought a Spektrum module with an AR7000 receiver to be used with my Futaba system. I wanted to get into flying the little BNF models that are so prevalent now. Well to make a long story short, after sending it back three times (prior to the third time, I demonstrated it to someone I know that deals with them all the time and he verified it was a problem), they replaced it and I haven't had any issues with the new one ever. But I got the same type of response when they sent the new one, we couldn't duplicate it BUT we're sending it as a gesture of good will. Then, when I finally got around to using the AR7000 receiver, it would intermittently lose bind, rather than put myself thru the hassle of dealing with this too, I just trashed it and swore off Spektrum equipment from that day on. I now own a JR 9503 and have had ZERO problems with it and I only use it for the BNF types. All my other planes are flown using Futaba.

So that's the lesson I learned. Have I crashed with Futaba? Yup, but NEVER from a radio issue.
Old 02-23-2012, 02:42 AM
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Default RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?

had similar problems with spectrum also. had lots of brown outs that caused problems. so now i am buying a futaba 8 channel. got tired of loosing planes after a few flights due to brown outs
Old 02-23-2012, 04:59 AM
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Default RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?


ORIGINAL: OobedoobeR

had similar problems with spectrum also. had lots of brown outs that caused problems. so now i am buying a futaba 8 channel. got tired of loosing planes after a few flights due to brown outs
How do you know they were brown outs? Just curious as to your findings that proved brownouts caused your problems.
Old 02-23-2012, 04:59 AM
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Default RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?


ORIGINAL: abcarr711

Yes, this is the receiver and the remote that came together from Spektrum in the box. Both radios are DX8. Both radios are registered with Spektrum and have been regularly updated once the update came out of beta testing. With the investment, I didn't want to be a guinea pig.

The biggest problem I have is that there is misrepresentation here. Even if they claim I got a better receiver than it was marked. They will not even admit that it is possible that they packaged the wrong satelite receiver with the AR8000. Both are marked DSM2. How hard is it for a human in a factory in China, who most likely doesn't read English to put an identical looking part with English writing/numbers in the wrong box? I know I can't read Chinese and could have done this if I was packaging products for their market.

Fact is, the receiver with the DSM2 remote bound to the radio and flew four times, the fourth ending in tragedy. However, the pilot did survive, although he had to be surgically removed from what was left of the cockpit.

Anyone want to buy a never used DX8 radio that was my backup?
How much for the DX8 ?
seriously
Old 02-23-2012, 05:09 AM
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Default RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?

   Many people say I'm just a trouble maker but I've personally witnessed too many Spectrum systems  just Crash and Burn, for no apparent reason. These are mostly the 5,6,&7's not the 8's. Of course there are not a lot of people flying the 8's yet. The * has to be better because it uses the full 2.4 spectrum in a Hopping Mode. But when used as a DSM2 system probably is subject to the same problems as before. It only uses 2 of the 80 or so channels. Just asking for trouble, in my opinion.
    There are a lot of Futabas at the fields I fly at. Old and new. Seems there are very few crashes with these and none for lose of radio, that I know of. I personally use Futaba 9CAPS on 72 Mhz and with an XPS 2.4 module and Hitec Aurora 9 module and receivers. Bought 2 HiTec Aurora 9's just to see what the Telemetry was all about. Have never had any kind of interference or laps of Radio with my Futaba or my Aurora's ... What can I say. OH I forgot the XPS 2.4 Module and 6 channle reciver that came with my second Hitec Aurora 9 I purchased used off RCU. Have yet to try it.
Old 02-23-2012, 05:21 AM
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Default RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?


ORIGINAL: abcarr711

Anyone want to buy a never used DX8 radio that was my backup?
"Not I" said the First Little Piggy ... Sorry couldn't resist!
Old 02-23-2012, 05:31 AM
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Default RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?

Thank you all for the info,   I'll check mine and see if I have DSM2 or DSM2X 



Old 02-23-2012, 05:37 AM
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Default RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?

If you're getting true brown outs then its a power problem not a radio problem and you will get that with any radio system if you don't provide adaquate power input.
Old 02-23-2012, 06:00 AM
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Default RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?

Why in the world do Spectrum Systems still come with 4.8 volt battery packs when everyone knows they require 6 volt packs with lots of MAH's and in some cases High Output depending on the other installed equipment ... I Just don't under stand Spectrum's Marketing straggly. Seems they would have enough problems with the fact that DSM2 is flawed and they persist on making it retor to the 8's
Now don't get mad just because you refuse to see reality.it took XPS a lot longer to dump their first 2 implitations of 2.4
Old 02-23-2012, 06:15 AM
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Default RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?


ORIGINAL: HoundDog

Why in the world do Spectrum Systems still come with 4.8 volt battery packs when everyone knows they require 6 volt packs with lots of MAH's and in some cases High Output depending on the other installed equipment ... I Just don't under stand Spectrum's Marketing straggly. Seems they would have enough problems with the fact that DSM2 is flawed and they persist on making it retor to the 8's
Now don't get mad just because you refuse to see reality.it took XPS a lot longer to dump their first 2 implitations of 2.4
A friend flies his 35% gasser on large 4.8 volt cells -never a problem- DX7 tx and rx
If you understood how power is measured , you would not have problems with th e 4.8/6 v setups
Old 02-23-2012, 06:17 AM
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Default RE: Spektrum vs. Futaba?


ORIGINAL: BarracudaHockey

If you're getting true brown outs then its a power problem not a radio problem and you will get that with any radio system if you don't provide adaquate power input.

True. But not all radios have the same threshold or reaction to a loss of voltage. If a low voltage "brown out" can be induced by normal flight operations versus the low voltage being due to an actual battery problem (loss of charge, depletion, pack damage), then those are fundamentally different situations and to say that all radios are susceptible to brown outs is not particularly meaningful. In addition, some radios are also capable of warning that the voltage is getting dangerously low before it actually causes a loss of control.

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