Quandary...
12-27-2012, 10:02 AM
#51
RE: Quandary...
I have flown a 12Z since they first came out on 50 MHz then switched to 2.4 when the 14 channel TX module came out. It is a fine radio.
The TX battery thing is a bit of an annoyance, be aware that battery is a somewhat standard camcorder battery so replacements are not hard to find. I am on my second battery and I have had to have the radio for 6 or 7 years?
The receiver battery issues are real but in practice not a huge issue. If you have low quality 4 cell NiMH then you might want to upgrade to a nice 5 cell (batteries don't last forever anyway).
If the main advantages of 2.4 GHz (frequency band sharing) are not that valuable to you, then return it. 72 MHz is a wasteland, so everything is cheaper (used of course) to the point of people giving it away. And as you have probably seen, the band is so empty it is like having your own personal frequency. And the range is better on 72 MHz as well, all things being equal.
The TX battery thing is a bit of an annoyance, be aware that battery is a somewhat standard camcorder battery so replacements are not hard to find. I am on my second battery and I have had to have the radio for 6 or 7 years?
The receiver battery issues are real but in practice not a huge issue. If you have low quality 4 cell NiMH then you might want to upgrade to a nice 5 cell (batteries don't last forever anyway).
If the main advantages of 2.4 GHz (frequency band sharing) are not that valuable to you, then return it. 72 MHz is a wasteland, so everything is cheaper (used of course) to the point of people giving it away. And as you have probably seen, the band is so empty it is like having your own personal frequency. And the range is better on 72 MHz as well, all things being equal.
12-27-2012, 07:04 PM
#52
RE: Quandary...
ORIGINAL: mr_matt
The TX battery thing is a bit of an annoyance, be aware that battery is a somewhat standard camcorder battery so replacements are not hard to find. I am on my second battery and I have had to have the radio for 6 or 7 years?
The TX battery thing is a bit of an annoyance, be aware that battery is a somewhat standard camcorder battery so replacements are not hard to find. I am on my second battery and I have had to have the radio for 6 or 7 years?
I had a good (and long) conversation with John at Product Support today. He's the go-to guy for the 12Z there. He agreed that, by using five cell packs along with the fact that I do not thrash my aircraft, I'll be okay.
He told me some things that I had a VERY difficult time accepting (such as, it is perfectly correct to mount a 2.4 receiver by simply sticking it in a convenient place with frigging servo tape!), and gave me a basic primer on installing 2.4 systems in general. We also determined that my example has every "upgrade" installed except the last one, which deals with flybarless rotor heads. Since I have zero plans to get involved with helicopters again (ten years was enough), I'm not concerned about that.
So I'm gonna keep this puppy and give it a try. I'm about to sit down with it and start learning it... got the manual downloaded on my iPad handy, too.
.
01-03-2013, 11:21 PM
#53
RE: Quandary...
You made an awesome investment in a radio you will likely never outgrow!! It has all the functionality of the 14MZ lacking only a touchscreen and an 8 character name limit.....
Let me answer your Rx mounting question...
Mount it just like a 72 Mhz Rx except you can "Hard Mount" it... no need for foam.....
Place it as far as convenient from big metal 'Rf Blocking' kinda stuff... mount the two antenii
so that the unshielded ends ar at 90 degrees to eachother.... any orientation you want in the plane....
but 90 degrees to eachother....
If you google the battery, you can find replacement Tx batteries online for about $13.00 each....
The overall handling and programming is unchanged whether 72 or 2.4....
I have used NiMh's in my 2 meter pattern plane... a 5 cell x 2000 NiMh with no problems...
I have used a 2 cell LiPo w/regs in my 40%'er... never a problem...
the brownout feature has never plagued the Futaba Systems like the other brand.....
it really isn't that different.... mostly mounting the two antenna's perp to eachother and you are done...
ORIGINAL: LSP972
Hmmmm... now, I'm beginning to wonder if I should even mess with this. Its turning out to be more effort and expense than I want to invest.
I'm already highly annoyed that a charger which you plug into the TX is an ''accessory'' on this 12Z; it came with a stand-alone charger requiring that the battery be removed from the transmitter each time. Several problems with that, IMO; aside from the fact that I've seen, numerous times, complaints that this particularly battery has a rather short endurance... the 9Z had this issue as well, but was easily fixed. It would seem the only solution on the 12Z is to buy another, extra, battery. Plus, the manual is strictly oriented to 72mHz operation; there is a 20-page supplement entitled ''T12Z Software Update'' that doesn't say jack about handling the receiver. IOW, nothing about mounting it, etc. And there certainly is NO information regarding receiver battery concerns that you guys have enumerated here.
I believe what you are saying. This ''2.4 supplement'' (if that is what its supposed to be) is typical Futaba. Plenty of information, but presented in a manner that assumes the user knows more than he actually does. Seeing as how I'm basically 'flying blind' -i.e., starting from scratch, with NO knowledge of the idiosyncrasies of 2.4- it isn't of much use to me.
So perhaps, before I use it, I should return this radio while I still can... IF I still can.
No doubt I could learn all of this... but between the effort required to do so, and the additional expense of proper batteries/charging systems/etc.; nah, more trouble than its worth.
I appreciate you guys trying to help.
.
.
Hmmmm... now, I'm beginning to wonder if I should even mess with this. Its turning out to be more effort and expense than I want to invest.
I'm already highly annoyed that a charger which you plug into the TX is an ''accessory'' on this 12Z; it came with a stand-alone charger requiring that the battery be removed from the transmitter each time. Several problems with that, IMO; aside from the fact that I've seen, numerous times, complaints that this particularly battery has a rather short endurance... the 9Z had this issue as well, but was easily fixed. It would seem the only solution on the 12Z is to buy another, extra, battery. Plus, the manual is strictly oriented to 72mHz operation; there is a 20-page supplement entitled ''T12Z Software Update'' that doesn't say jack about handling the receiver. IOW, nothing about mounting it, etc. And there certainly is NO information regarding receiver battery concerns that you guys have enumerated here.
I believe what you are saying. This ''2.4 supplement'' (if that is what its supposed to be) is typical Futaba. Plenty of information, but presented in a manner that assumes the user knows more than he actually does. Seeing as how I'm basically 'flying blind' -i.e., starting from scratch, with NO knowledge of the idiosyncrasies of 2.4- it isn't of much use to me.
So perhaps, before I use it, I should return this radio while I still can... IF I still can.
No doubt I could learn all of this... but between the effort required to do so, and the additional expense of proper batteries/charging systems/etc.; nah, more trouble than its worth.
I appreciate you guys trying to help.
.
.
01-03-2013, 11:28 PM
#54
RE: Quandary...
I would like to add that there are a few good vids on programming on Youtube that Steve Kaluf did.... he used a 14MZ for the vid....
but programming is identical with the 12Z.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jKKF1eAFvo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMF-sQ20_bw
I gotta say... I am really excited for you 'cuz in a couple weeks... you will begin to realize the power of the system!!
(Several of my friends preferred the 12Z over the 14MZ cuz it is a bit trimmer and easier to hold... weighs less too)
ORIGINAL: LSP972
What kind of endurance are you getting from the standard Futaba battery? At ninety bucks from The Empire, I'm having to think twice about snarfing a spare... since I've got to get new 6 volt receiver packs all around.
I had a good (and long) conversation with John at Product Support today. He's the go-to guy for the 12Z there. He agreed that, by using five cell packs along with the fact that I do not thrash my aircraft, I'll be okay.
He told me some things that I had a VERY difficult time accepting (such as, it is perfectly correct to mount a 2.4 receiver by simply sticking it in a convenient place with frigging servo tape!), and gave me a basic primer on installing 2.4 systems in general. We also determined that my example has every ''upgrade'' installed except the last one, which deals with flybarless rotor heads. Since I have zero plans to get involved with helicopters again (ten years was enough), I'm not concerned about that.
So I'm gonna keep this puppy and give it a try. I'm about to sit down with it and start learning it... got the manual downloaded on my iPad handy, too.
.
What kind of endurance are you getting from the standard Futaba battery? At ninety bucks from The Empire, I'm having to think twice about snarfing a spare... since I've got to get new 6 volt receiver packs all around.
I had a good (and long) conversation with John at Product Support today. He's the go-to guy for the 12Z there. He agreed that, by using five cell packs along with the fact that I do not thrash my aircraft, I'll be okay.
He told me some things that I had a VERY difficult time accepting (such as, it is perfectly correct to mount a 2.4 receiver by simply sticking it in a convenient place with frigging servo tape!), and gave me a basic primer on installing 2.4 systems in general. We also determined that my example has every ''upgrade'' installed except the last one, which deals with flybarless rotor heads. Since I have zero plans to get involved with helicopters again (ten years was enough), I'm not concerned about that.
So I'm gonna keep this puppy and give it a try. I'm about to sit down with it and start learning it... got the manual downloaded on my iPad handy, too.
.
01-04-2013, 07:01 AM
#55
RE: Quandary...
Thanks. I'm in a holding pattern right now, waiting on a good day to test-fly my test-bed, so to speak (on 72 mHz). As soon as I ensure that the Stik is okay (flies good, no surprises), I'll install the 2.4 system and play with it a bit.
I have several other airplanes ready for the new receiver when I get comfortable with it.
I've already seen that hanging on to the 72 mHz gear is only delaying the inevitable. I've got two systems; a 9ZHP on 72.310 with a half-dozen receivers, and a 7CAP on 72.790 with two almost new R618 receivers. I'm going the keep the 7C for now, as #2 grandson is still in the "free spirit" stage and tends to get retarded with his model when chasing buzzards, etc. (nothing dangerous to the crowd, but definitely dangerous to the model
); but as soon as I get completely sorted out with the 12Z I'll put the 9Z and goodies up for sale... while there is still someone around who wants it.
I'm no fan of touch screens; my sausage fingers require a stylus when navigating around my iPad. The cursor joystick of the 12Z, OTOH, is a delight. I'm really looking forward to exploring that radio.
.
I have several other airplanes ready for the new receiver when I get comfortable with it.
I've already seen that hanging on to the 72 mHz gear is only delaying the inevitable. I've got two systems; a 9ZHP on 72.310 with a half-dozen receivers, and a 7CAP on 72.790 with two almost new R618 receivers. I'm going the keep the 7C for now, as #2 grandson is still in the "free spirit" stage and tends to get retarded with his model when chasing buzzards, etc. (nothing dangerous to the crowd, but definitely dangerous to the model
); but as soon as I get completely sorted out with the 12Z I'll put the 9Z and goodies up for sale... while there is still someone around who wants it.I'm no fan of touch screens; my sausage fingers require a stylus when navigating around my iPad. The cursor joystick of the 12Z, OTOH, is a delight. I'm really looking forward to exploring that radio.
.
01-04-2013, 09:27 AM
#56
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RE: Quandary...
BTW, the other advantage of going to the new 2.4G rx , if it has not already been mentioned, is the capability to go with HV designed recievers and systems in the airplane for some serious servo performance. Also, you get more channels than ever going with the new systems also. My 8FGS does 14channels which is really nice. The disadvantage is learning a entirely new connection system with the s-bus. But once you get the hang of it is not too bad and you can always stay parallel by using a r6014 rx if you like.
01-04-2013, 10:55 AM
#57
RE: Quandary...
ORIGINAL: LSP972
but as soon as I get completely sorted out with the 12Z I'll put the 9Z and goodies up for sale... while there is still someone around who wants it.
.
but as soon as I get completely sorted out with the 12Z I'll put the 9Z and goodies up for sale... while there is still someone around who wants it.
.
The module to convert the 9Z to 2.4 SS is not too expensive either.
As for receivers, if you have a lot of "normal" planes you can't go wrong with the R617FS. I think I got them from a guy on here selling them for $70 each.
01-04-2013, 05:48 PM
#58
RE: Quandary...
I'm keeping the 7CAP because it is set up for buddy boxing; I have an old, derelict Futaba Conquest four channel transmitter for the slave.
Of course, the 9Z excels at buddy boxing too; I've used mine for that. I really like the override feature, where you can let the student have control but can correct him without having to release the switch- which you don't have to hold anyway.
My thinking is that I can get a few dollars for the 9Z, to help offset the cost of more 6014HS receivers. I got a free 617 with the radio, but me don't like the "fail-safe only on the throttle" deal with that one.
The Empire wants two hundred bucks a pop for that 6014. I'm not a cheapskate, by any means, but dayum...
.
Of course, the 9Z excels at buddy boxing too; I've used mine for that. I really like the override feature, where you can let the student have control but can correct him without having to release the switch- which you don't have to hold anyway.
My thinking is that I can get a few dollars for the 9Z, to help offset the cost of more 6014HS receivers. I got a free 617 with the radio, but me don't like the "fail-safe only on the throttle" deal with that one.
The Empire wants two hundred bucks a pop for that 6014. I'm not a cheapskate, by any means, but dayum...
.
01-04-2013, 07:10 PM
#59
RE: Quandary...
I use the 12z as the master and the 9Z as the slave. When he was able to fly himself I just bound the plane to his TX and he was off and running with the 9Z. There is a 7 channel TX module for the 9 of 2.4. I can't remeber how much.
As for the the 617, you have preset for throttle failsafe and hold on the rest of the channels, good enough for me and at 70 bucks?
I don't think you are going too get much for the 9z, but you never know.
As for the the 617, you have preset for throttle failsafe and hold on the rest of the channels, good enough for me and at 70 bucks?
I don't think you are going too get much for the 9z, but you never know.
01-04-2013, 07:35 PM
#60
RE: Quandary...
ORIGINAL: mr_matt
I don't think you are going too get much for the 9z, but you never know.
I don't think you are going too get much for the 9z, but you never know.
But you make a point. I dearly love that old radio, and in fact would have bought a 2.4 module for it had not my bride got me this 12Z. And the 12Z has no tach! What is the world coming to?????[:@]
.
01-04-2013, 07:37 PM
#61
RE: Quandary...
ORIGINAL: mr_matt
As for the the 617, you have preset for throttle failsafe and hold on the rest of the channels,
As for the the 617, you have preset for throttle failsafe and hold on the rest of the channels,
.
09-16-2015, 01:48 PM
#62
Well, after 2.5 years of flying electrics on the 12Z with absolutely zero issues, I've decided to get back into glow power. I never bothered to try and sell those 9Zs; I did send them back to Radio South for a check-up and lithium back-up battery replacement.
The two glow models I kept have been on the wall rack all that time; and I did buy a 2.4 module for the 9Zs as a Plan B, back when Tower was blowing that stuff out. So the other day, I drug all that stuff out and got to work. I'm going to use the newer 9Z to fly these models, as they are already programmed… and I had forgotten how much I love that old radio. The 12Z is fine, but does not have the "solid" feel (held in the hands) that the 9Z does.
Anyway… I put 617s into the glow birds, plugged that 2.4 module into the 9Z, and everything checks out, so I'm ready to burn some nitro again. Not quitting e-power; I've been having a ball with it, but I do miss the "better" way the larger glow planes fly, as compared to the smaller electrics.
Fortunately, two of the four battery magazine/packs I have for the 9Zs are still good. These are ones I had Tony Stillman make up two years ago. I don't know of anyone else who even offers that service for the 9Z.
An acquaintance told me that Fromeco made him a three cell lipo pack for his 9Z some years back; I've got a call into them to check that out.
Does anybody know of any reputable firm that offers new battery packs, of whatever chemistry, for the 9Z? I have the magazines to send them. Hobbico/Bax said they don't have anything.
.
The two glow models I kept have been on the wall rack all that time; and I did buy a 2.4 module for the 9Zs as a Plan B, back when Tower was blowing that stuff out. So the other day, I drug all that stuff out and got to work. I'm going to use the newer 9Z to fly these models, as they are already programmed… and I had forgotten how much I love that old radio. The 12Z is fine, but does not have the "solid" feel (held in the hands) that the 9Z does.
Anyway… I put 617s into the glow birds, plugged that 2.4 module into the 9Z, and everything checks out, so I'm ready to burn some nitro again. Not quitting e-power; I've been having a ball with it, but I do miss the "better" way the larger glow planes fly, as compared to the smaller electrics.
Fortunately, two of the four battery magazine/packs I have for the 9Zs are still good. These are ones I had Tony Stillman make up two years ago. I don't know of anyone else who even offers that service for the 9Z.
An acquaintance told me that Fromeco made him a three cell lipo pack for his 9Z some years back; I've got a call into them to check that out.
Does anybody know of any reputable firm that offers new battery packs, of whatever chemistry, for the 9Z? I have the magazines to send them. Hobbico/Bax said they don't have anything.
.
09-17-2015, 02:41 AM
#64
Nope. It was definitely the smart move. I haven't encountered so much as the slightest glitch or problem with the electric ships; totally trouble-free.
Of course, I never had any major issues with 72 mHz either, but a few unexplained close calls over the years; and we had a guy at the field lose a 72mHz model Sunday for no apparent reason other than radio failure. I don't know the condition of his equipment (we have a few guys who re-use crashed gear without having it checked), but I was watching the model when it went in, and the pilot didn't do anything wrong that I could see.
Anyway… looking forward to flying these "slimers" again...
.
Of course, I never had any major issues with 72 mHz either, but a few unexplained close calls over the years; and we had a guy at the field lose a 72mHz model Sunday for no apparent reason other than radio failure. I don't know the condition of his equipment (we have a few guys who re-use crashed gear without having it checked), but I was watching the model when it went in, and the pilot didn't do anything wrong that I could see.
Anyway… looking forward to flying these "slimers" again...
.
09-24-2015, 05:22 AM
#65
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