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reciever installation location question

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Old 01-08-2013, 08:52 PM
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raron455
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Default reciever installation location question

Ok I have another question about installing the reciever,, I recently lost a 1/3 pitts, not sure what happened either the reciever lost signal, or the flight pack gave a false reading on the charge it had. I was able to get another GPpitts s2s from anotherrcu member (the discountinued one they stopped making about 11 years ago),, I am building it now, I am putting a spektrum ar9020 with the twin satellite recievers,,
My question is this,, If Iwas to locate one of the satellite recievers in the cockpit under the clear canopy, would that increase the chances of maintaining reception,, IKNOW that the main and satellite recievers need to be positioned in opposite directions, So I figured if I put it on the back of the cockpit, with the antenna leads facing the wings, that maybe under the clear canopy if would maintain better reception than it would in the fuselage,, MY knowledge of recievers is not the greatest thats why I am asking,, I do not want to lose this plane due to a bad reception issue so I am trying to do all I can,,,thanks fellas
Old 01-08-2013, 09:06 PM
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dirtybird
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Default RE: reciever installation location question

I fly XPS with only one receiver. I put it in the cockpit mounted as high as possible.
I have not had any problems.
Old 01-08-2013, 09:45 PM
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Checklst
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Default RE: reciever installation location question

According to a video on the Horzion web site the satellites should be turned 90 degrease to the main receiver and if using 2 satellites they should be 45 to each other............the video make since.

On your possible batt problem.......are you running duel packs and switches?

Hope this helps a little
Old 01-08-2013, 11:54 PM
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Aerocal
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Default RE: reciever installation location question

How are you powering the Rx/servos.I hope not with one lead from the battery pack.What type/size pack are you using.What are you doing during setup to assure your power delivery is adequate.
Are you using a FL data reader during/after your advanced range/low power check to assure your Rx placement is adequate.
1/3 scale is a big bird.These are important steps to reliability.Anything less is Plug and Pray.Telemetry makes keeping tabs on basic parameters very simple.There are general guidelines but there is no one setup fits all.Especially when you get into bigger machines.There are far too many variables.What works for one may not be the best for another.

You mention your doubts about whether the pack was charged.This kind of indicates you really dont have a clue what went wrong and your simply guessing.90% of the time its simply a marginal setup to begin with and one small weakness drags the whole system over the cliff to failure.Unless you can qualify it with data to back up your guesses theres no way of being generally assured it is going to be reliable.There are several ways to do this.
Old 01-09-2013, 06:27 AM
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raron455
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Default RE: reciever installation location question

I always have the recievers perpindicular to each other, usually as far as the cord will let them be.
As far as powering the reciever,, The plane I lost I bought from an AMA member in houston, it was set up with a 2000 mah 6.0v pack plugged into a switch, when I bought the plane It had been in a storage shed for IDONTknow how long, so Iwent all through the whole plane, I removed the battery and cycled it on my charger (hitec x1) it showed to be good, I did the same with the ignition. I took the plane out, I made 3 flights, checking the voltage of the battery before each flight, I use a futaba battery checker
http://www.futaba-rc.com/accessories/futm4166.htmlbefore the final flight,(if this is not theright way to check batterys letme know, I have heard of a load tester but they dont work on 123a or life packs) the ignition battery pack showed low 80% so I charged it,, The reciever pack showed 90% right at 6 volts I planned on making one more flight, so i used another club members charger and topped off the ignition pack,,
Then I took off, I made about 6 circles and then it happened, the plane accelerated to full throttle, and started spinning straight into the ground,, I had no control what so ever,,couldnt check the flight pack after the crash as it was busted into 3 pieces. SO i figured it was either a radio issue or the flight pack, I sent my tx to horizon,, DX8 with the reciever ar8000 and had them check it, they said all was good, but went ahead and sent me a new rx. SO I am left to believe that the reciever pack must have given me a false reading, and died off rapidly on the last flight. I know the plane defaulted to full throttle because I did not re-bind it at low throttle when I set it up on my tx.
NOW how I set my planes up is like this,, I have just gotten away from the nimh, the edge I am building has, an 123a pack with a regulator on the ignition, and the flight pack has a 123a pack on the rx, 6.6 volt 2300mah. I take the battery and go through a HD switch (MDI or miracle) then from the switch to the bind/data port on the reciever. I check the voltage on all my planes before every flight if I have any doubt I will top them off, or not fly.
Now if I am doing this wrong let me know, as I have not been taught any other way,, I know some guys run 2 batteries, but in this pitts I am building, I have a dle55 so I am using a batt for that, of course the reciever, so a batt for that,, and a smoke pump, with its on batt, all on isolated circuits, not sharing voltage. SO to run a 2nd battery for the ignition I think will just be too heavy.
opinions, experience,and advice are always welcomed, by meand listened to with an open ear,, I am always learning
Old 01-09-2013, 07:32 AM
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Default RE: reciever installation location question

Obviously getting the reciever away from obstructions will be "better" but that said, fueslage components like wood and plastic covering don't really effect RF and if they do it would only be at the extremes of range.
Old 01-09-2013, 08:05 AM
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Default RE: reciever installation location question


ORIGINAL: raron455

I always have the recievers perpindicular to each other, usually as far as the cord will let them be.
As far as powering the reciever,, The plane I lost I bought from an AMA member in houston, it was set up with a 2000 mah 6.0v pack plugged into a switch, when I bought the plane It had been in a storage shed for I DONT know how long, so I went all through the whole plane, I removed the battery and cycled it on my charger (hitec x1) it showed to be good, I did the same with the ignition. I took the plane out, I made 3 flights, checking the voltage of the battery before each flight, I use a futaba battery checker
http://www.futaba-rc.com/accessories/futm4166.html before the final flight, (if this is not the right way to check batterys let me know, I have heard of a load tester but they dont work on 123a or life packs) the ignition battery pack showed low 80% so I charged it,, The reciever pack showed 90% right at 6 volts I planned on making one more flight, so i used another club members charger and topped off the ignition pack,,
Then I took off, I made about 6 circles and then it happened, the plane accelerated to full throttle, and started spinning straight into the ground,, I had no control what so ever,,couldnt check the flight pack after the crash as it was busted into 3 pieces. SO i figured it was either a radio issue or the flight pack, I sent my tx to horizon,, DX8 with the reciever ar8000 and had them check it, they said all was good, but went ahead and sent me a new rx. SO I am left to believe that the reciever pack must have given me a false reading, and died off rapidly on the last flight. I know the plane defaulted to full throttle because I did not re-bind it at low throttle when I set it up on my tx.
NOW how I set my planes up is like this,, I have just gotten away from the nimh, the edge I am building has, an 123a pack with a regulator on the ignition, and the flight pack has a 123a pack on the rx, 6.6 volt 2300mah. I take the battery and go through a HD switch (MDI or miracle) then from the switch to the bind/data port on the reciever. I check the voltage on all my planes before every flight if I have any doubt I will top them off, or not fly.
Now if I am doing this wrong let me know, as I have not been taught any other way,, I know some guys run 2 batteries, but in this pitts I am building, I have a dle55 so I am using a batt for that, of course the reciever, so a batt for that,, and a smoke pump, with its on batt, all on isolated circuits, not sharing voltage. SO to run a 2nd battery for the ignition I think will just be too heavy.
opinions, experience, and advice are always welcomed, by me and listened to with an open ear,, I am always learning
Checking the voltage before each flight is of course important, however, it does not help determine the Discharge State of an A123/LiFe battery. It also will not test whether your system is susceptible to a Brownout. With LiPos, NiCads, NiMh, and Eneloops, you can at least monitor the Discharge State of the battery packs. I still prefer A123/LiFe because of the lower voltage, but I keep track of the time the battery has been used to determine when to ReCharge.
Old 01-09-2013, 08:21 AM
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raron455
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Default RE: reciever installation location question

I Just swapped to 123a I got all my components and information from the hangtime hobbies website,, I know that you have to monitor voltage on the 123a and time your flights then when charging see how many mah is put back into the battery, so I know how long I can fly on it,, Still learning, I am getting away from the nimh in my big planes because the 123a is just a better power source.




My main question is on thoughts of putting the satellite reciever in the cockpit , was not sure if that would provide better reception than it being in the fuselage.
Old 01-09-2013, 08:28 AM
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Default RE: reciever installation location question

Your reciever cant tell the difference between being behind plastic canopy and plastic covering. As I said, getting it up a little higher and away from servos and batteries that can block RF can only be a good thing, but the same thing could be accomplished with it in the structure behind the canopy w/o it being visable.
Old 01-09-2013, 08:30 AM
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BuschBarber
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Default RE: reciever installation location question


ORIGINAL: raron455

I Just swapped to 123a I got all my components and information from the hangtime hobbies website,, I know that you have to monitor voltage on the 123a and time your flights then when charging see how many mah is put back into the battery, so I know how long I can fly on it,, Still learning, I am getting away from the nimh in my big planes because the 123a is just a better power source.




My main question is on thoughts of putting the satellite reciever in the cockpit , was not sure if that would provide better reception than it being in the fuselage.
If you are not using Telemetry, the best tool at your disposal is the Spektrum Flight Logger. Connect the Flight Logger to the Rx Data port, do a 360 degree Range Check, and look at the Data. Do a flight and connect the Flight Logger to the Rx, after you land and before you power down the Rx. This will help you determine the Optimal placement of the Rx and Remotes.
Old 01-27-2013, 07:52 PM
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AirmanBob
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Default RE: reciever installation location question

Well, I'm gonna get a lot of flak for stating the obvious but you might consider the following:

The term "brownout" was never used until Spektrum came on the scene..
Satellite receivers were never needed or even thought of until Spektrum came along.
How could you possibly know if the satellite receiver 'really' saved your plane? Only if
you had telemetry from your onboard receiver like FrSky does.

But why jump through all those hoops if you don't have to. I'd sell that Spektrum while
people are still buying them and get the safest radio on the market... Futaba. No more
satellite's, no low voltage brownouts, because Futaba receivers lower your throttle when
voltage gets too low. They don't just shut down like other receivers do. Simply go to low
throttle and then back to high throttle and you are good to go again for half a minute or
so, and make a quick landing. If it goes to low again, repeat the above.

I think someday Spektrum may figure out how to build radios that are safe to use in
big expensive models, but until then, don't be a test pilot for them. Get a radio that simply
works. Futaba. Ask around, I'm not the only guy that feels this way. I've been flying r/c for
over thirty(30) years and I've used almost every brand, including Spektrum, and Futaba
has proven to be bullet proof.

Just sayin.....

Bob
Old 01-27-2013, 10:34 PM
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Checklst
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Default RE: reciever installation location question

Your problem probably was your power source...............My first rule is duel packs, duel switches,no matter what battery you choose. Second rule .......not knowing how the batt was stored or taken care of it should have been replaced.

Not busting your chops.....sometimes things happen...... on that large and beautiful airplane run 2 batts 2 switches on the receiver.

Old 01-28-2013, 05:17 AM
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BarracudaHockey
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Default RE: reciever installation location question

Sorry Bob but thats utter nonsense.

I say that as a reviewer that owns and operates a variety of radio systems including Futaba, JR, Spektrum, and Hitec.
Old 01-28-2013, 07:08 AM
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Default RE: reciever installation location question


ORIGINAL: AirmanBob

Well, I'm gonna get a lot of flak for stating the obvious but you might consider the following:

The term ''brownout'' was never used until Spektrum came on the scene..
Satellite receivers were never needed or even thought of until Spektrum came along.
How could you possibly know if the satellite receiver 'really' saved your plane? Only if
you had telemetry from your onboard receiver like FrSky does.

But why jump through all those hoops if you don't have to. I'd sell that Spektrum while
people are still buying them and get the safest radio on the market... Futaba. No more
satellite's, no low voltage brownouts, because Futaba receivers lower your throttle when
voltage gets too low. They don't just shut down like other receivers do. Simply go to low
throttle and then back to high throttle and you are good to go again for half a minute or
so, and make a quick landing. If it goes to low again, repeat the above.

I think someday Spektrum may figure out how to build radios that are safe to use in
big expensive models, but until then, don't be a test pilot for them. Get a radio that simply
works. Futaba. Ask around, I'm not the only guy that feels this way. I've been flying r/c for
over thirty(30) years and I've used almost every brand, including Spektrum, and Futaba
has proven to be bullet proof.

Just sayin.....

Bob
This is Baloney. Any receiver, no matter which manufacturer, can experience a Brownout, when the voltage drops below Critical. Futaba has radios that are very comparable to an of the other major brands, but Futaba is by no means Bullet Proof. Spektrum offers the Flight Log Tool that can be used to determine whether the receiver placement in the aircraft is optimal. Do a 360 deg range check and the Tool will tell you which antennas have the weakest signal. Spektrum Telemetry will also provide you with that info.

Buy, use, and enjoy any radio you prefer. Your Rant against Spektrum only makes you look foolish.
Old 01-28-2013, 12:48 PM
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Checklst
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Default RE: reciever installation location question

Raron455 This might help you!!!!!!!!! I just had my 540 plane fail a range check today before my first flight. I lost the throttle servo but had total control over the rudder,ailerons,elevator. JUST like your Pitts. I just installed a JR 2.4 receiver (7010) with satellite in my 540 and during the range check I lost control of the throttle servo(engine remained at idle) but I still had full control over all other surfaces. I still don't believe it. I had a friend watch my receiver as I did the range check at 30,40,50 paces ..........when I lost control of the throttle the main receiver light would go total blank(NO flashing light....no light at all) the Satellite light would flash. This range check was done at 12, 3,6,9 o'clock at 30 paces,same results no light main receiver...flashing light on the satellite.

I have 2 switches,2 NIMH 2000ma 6v on the main receiver,batts switches are in the batt port,and gear port. The ignition is a 4.8v 2000ma NIMH2000 on separate switch. The batt and the switch is on the opposite side of the fuse as the throttle servo....throttle servo is in front of wing tube about 12" away from ignition Box.

My next test was to plug Batts into the main receiver one at a time taking out the switches.........left switch first batt direct,same results....lost the throttle,full control over all other servos, Right switch was next,batt direct to receiver.......now both batts are direct....BAM passed the range check.....lost no control no blinking lights........sheeeese my right switch took out my main receiver and I lost control of throttle servo only..................I STILL CAN'T RAP MY HEAD AROUND THIS. I have flown the plane for 3 years with a OS 160 2C and about 2 months with a DLE30 on 8 channel PCM receiver.

Man for all the people out their thinking 2.4 does not require a range check.....good luck with that!!!!!!! I did plug the left switch back in and the range check was good.......The right switch put her back in the fail mode. The switches are standard JR somewhere around 5 years old.

Hope this helps a little

Old 01-28-2013, 01:06 PM
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Default RE: reciever installation location question


ORIGINAL: Checklst

Raron455 This might help you!!!!!!!!! I just had my 540 plane fail a range check today before my first flight. I lost the throttle servo but had total control over the rudder,ailerons,elevator. JUST like your Pitts. I just installed a JR 2.4 receiver (7010) with satellite in my 540 and during the range check I lost control of the throttle servo(engine remained at idle) but I still had full control over all other surfaces. I still don't believe it. I had a friend watch my receiver as I did the range check at 30,40,50 paces ..........when I lost control of the throttle the main receiver light would go total blank(NO flashing light....no light at all) the Satellite light would flash. This range check was done at 12, 3,6,9 o'clock at 30 paces,same results no light main receiver...flashing light on the satellite.

I have 2 switches,2 NIMH 2000ma 6v on the main receiver,batts switches are in the batt port,and gear port. The ignition is a 4.8v 2000ma NIMH2000 on separate switch. The batt and the switch is on the opposite side of the fuse as the throttle servo....throttle servo is in front of wing tube about 12'' away from ignition Box.

My next test was to plug Batts into the main receiver one at a time taking out the switches.........left switch first batt direct,same results....lost the throttle,full control over all other servos, Right switch was next,batt direct to receiver.......now both batts are direct....BAM passed the range check.....lost no control no blinking lights........sheeeese my right switch took out my main receiver and I lost control of throttle servo only..................I STILL CAN'T RAP MY HEAD AROUND THIS. I have flown the plane for 3 years with a OS 160 2C and about 2 months with a DLE30 on 8 channel PCM receiver.

Man for all the people out their thinking 2.4 does not require a range check.....good luck with that!!!!!!! I did plug the left switch back in and the range check was good.......The right switch put her back in the fail mode. The switches are standard JR somewhere around 5 years old.

Hope this helps a little

I believe the AR7010 is a Spektrum receiver.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/products/x-SPMAR7010
Old 01-28-2013, 08:38 PM
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AirmanBob
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Default RE: reciever installation location question

Gosh... you're right...I feel foolish....
Old 01-28-2013, 09:17 PM
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Default RE: reciever installation location question

This past Sunday, I almost lost a plane.  The Sun snuck in behind the edge of my glasses, and just about wiped out any detailed vision at a distance.  Wind aloft was about 20mph or higher, with ground gusts to about 12-15. Before my vision recovered enough to see any real detail, other than the plane as a black blob, it was almost out of sight.  It actually took three people, myself and two younger RC pilots with better eyesight than I  to recover the plane.  The first problem was due to distance, to get the plane headed back towards us, and just keep it flying. After we got it on the ground - - The Li battery had 19-20% left, and the log showed 1 hold and 171 frame losses. We estimated the farthest distance to be between 1 and 1 1/2 miles.  Amazingly, at one point, at a distance, the plane was below an intervening tree line, and we were lucky enough to get it up and back towards us without it becoming tree fodder.  (DX-8TX, 8000 RX, 1000 telemetry unit. I'm thinking about adding binoculars to my flight box after this one!  

Main receiver antenna horizontal at 90 deg to line of flight under cockpit plastic floor.  Remote was vertical, located at the rear of the cockpit and above linkages, but well behind and above two servos. DH-2 Beaver, Platinum Series model.

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