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Failed Range Check 2.4 Spectrum

Old 01-28-2013, 01:14 PM
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Checklst
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Default Failed Range Check 2.4 Spectrum

I thought I would post this in its own thread.....this was a answer I gave to Raron455 in another thread......I need your guys expert help because I can't seem to rap my head around this .

Raron455 This might help you!!!!!!!!! I just had my 540 plane fail a range check today before my first flight. I lost the throttle servo but had total control over the rudder,ailerons,elevator. JUST like you Pitts. I just installed a JR 2.4 receiver (7010# with satellite in my 540 and during the range check I lost control of the throttle servo#engine remained at idle# but I still had full control over all other surfaces. I still don't believe it. I had a friend watch my receiver as I did the range check at 30,40,50 paces ..........when I lost control of the throttle the main receiver light would go total blank#NO flashing light....no light at all) the Satellite light would flash. This range check was done at 12, 3,6,9 o'clock at 30 paces,same results no light main receiver...flashing light on the satellite.

I have 2 switches,2 NIMH 2000ma 6v on the main receiver,batts switches are in the batt port,and gear port. The ignition is a 4.8v 2000ma NIMH on separate switch. The batt and the switch is on the opposite side of the fuse as the throttle servo....throttle servo is in front of wing tube around 12" away from ignition Box.

My next test was to plug Batts into the main receiver one at a time taking out the switches.........left switch first batt direct,same results....lost the throttle,full control over all other servos, Right switch was next,batt direct to receiver.......now both batts are direct....BAM passed the range check.....total control no blinking lights, at 50 paces 150ft........sheeeese my right switch took out my main receiver and I lost control of throttle servo only..................I STILL CAN'T RAP MY HEAD AROUND THIS. I have flown the plane for 3 years with a OS 160 2C and about 2 months with a DLE30 on 8 channel PCM receiver.

Man for all the people out their thinking 2.4 does not require a range check.....good luck with that!!!!!!! I did plug the left switch back in and the range check was good.......The right switch put her back in the fail mode. The switches are standard JR somewhere around 5 years old.

Not sure if I will go with HD switches or a quick release on the canopies and use HD deans plugs direct...........I'm open to suggestions switches(what type) or direct plugs.

Thank Guys
Old 01-28-2013, 01:32 PM
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warbird72
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Default RE: Failed Range Check 2.4 Spectrum

I'm still scared to go to full 2.4 yet just because of story's like this. I had a 27% edge 540 do a lock out on me with a dx7. To this day I use futaba and hitech . I am still using 72 MHz as well. Its going to take some time to trust 2.4 again. That plane didn't have a chance. Let us know what you find out.. thanks in advance.
Old 01-28-2013, 01:55 PM
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Default RE: Failed Range Check 2.4 Spectrum


ORIGINAL: Checklst

I thought I would post this in its own thread.....this was a answer I gave to Raron455 in another thread......I need your guys expert help because I can't seem to rap my head around this .

Raron455 This might help you!!!!!!!!! I just had my 540 plane fail a range check today before my first flight. I lost the throttle servo but had total control over the rudder,ailerons,elevator. JUST like you Pitts. I just installed a JR 2.4 receiver (7010# with satellite in my 540 and during the range check I lost control of the throttle servo#engine remained at idle# but I still had full control over all other surfaces. I still don't believe it. I had a friend watch my receiver as I did the range check at 30,40,50 paces ..........when I lost control of the throttle the main receiver light would go total blank#NO flashing light....no light at all) the Satellite light would flash. This range check was done at 12, 3,6,9 o'clock at 30 paces,same results no light main receiver...flashing light on the satellite.

I have 2 switches,2 NIMH 2000ma 6v on the main receiver,batts switches are in the batt port,and gear port. The ignition is a 4.8v 2000ma NIMH on separate switch. The batt and the switch is on the opposite side of the fuse as the throttle servo....throttle servo is in front of wing tube around 12'' away from ignition Box.

My next test was to plug Batts into the main receiver one at a time taking out the switches.........left switch first batt direct,same results....lost the throttle,full control over all other servos, Right switch was next,batt direct to receiver.......now both batts are direct....BAM passed the range check.....total control no blinking lights, at 50 paces 150ft........sheeeese my right switch took out my main receiver and I lost control of throttle servo only..................I STILL CAN'T RAP MY HEAD AROUND THIS. I have flown the plane for 3 years with a OS 160 2C and about 2 months with a DLE30 on 8 channel PCM receiver.

Man for all the people out their thinking 2.4 does not require a range check.....good luck with that!!!!!!! I did plug the left switch back in and the range check was good.......The right switch put her back in the fail mode. The switches are standard JR somewhere around 5 years old.

Not sure if I will go with HD switches or a quick release on the canopies and use HD deans plugs direct...........I'm open to suggestions switches(what type) or direct plugs.

Thank Guys

G'day Mate
Why is it that as soon as there is a problem, the thing that must be at fault is the JR 2.4Ghz RX!!!
There are a couple of things in this post that rang alarm bells for me, first off, the plane had been flown for 3 years with a 8 channel PCM RX, no problem,
BUT the switches are standard JR, AND 5 years old.
I bet if you put the 8 channel RX back in, you would have a similar problem, NOT because of radio troubles, but because of SWITCH troubles.
Switches wear out, contacts become loose & don't make good contact.
I wonder how many times those switches were operated in that 5 YEAR period, maybe thousands.
SO, replace your batteries, & switches every couple of years, no matter what type of radio you are using.

Cheers
Old 01-28-2013, 02:02 PM
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fizzwater2
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Default RE: Failed Range Check 2.4 Spectrum

Another thing to consider -

2000MAH + AA NIMH batteries aren't really all that good of a receiver pack - the internal impedance is high, the voltage can drop under load more than it ought to.

Squeezing that much capacity into a AA sized cell, something has to give.

Glad you found this on the ground, instead of in the air!
Old 01-28-2013, 04:53 PM
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Checklst
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Default RE: Failed Range Check 2.4 Spectrum

Don't get me wrong guys....I am not blaming 2.4.......The switch is at fault....I changed engines, new batterys.........just should have changed to HD switches and called it a day. It sure would have been a hard to find if I would have crashed,the switch is good without the vibration...the batterys are good,good servos,and receivers would pass a bench check.......most people would have blamed the 2.4 at that point.

I just had a hard time rapping my mind around a switch vibration shutting down the main receiver(no blinking lights no receiver lights at all) and only effecting the throttle servo............I know vibration can cause a frequency to interfere with any receiver but just the throttle servo blew me away. This 70" edge 540 is old school 5 servos total, non digital hitec 645's the throttle servo is brand new, as the old throttle servo went bad a few weeks ago on the PMC receiver.....this plane is keeping me on my toes for sure.
Old 01-31-2013, 05:46 PM
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Checklst
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Default RE: Failed Range Check 2.4 Spectrum

Problem with new switches....need to know if its normal. I just got my new HD switches from Taildragger they have a blue led light to show you if it turned on, both switches are 3 wire 20AWG wire and are DSM compatible so I can bind from the charge port.....the one that is plugged into the Bind data port anyway.

Hear is my problem I am running 2 switches and 2 Batts parallel.....one switch is in the Bind data port(AR7010 receiver) the second switch/battery is plugged into a empty port(gear) No matter which switch I turn on first the other switches BLUE light comes on even if that switch is in the off position................is this normal for DSM switches??? if so it kinda makes the blue light worthless!!!!!it seems the single batt is powering the receivers buss and then powers the second switches blue light in the off position. If this is normal I wont purchase switches with lights.....I can paint over the led lights but what a shame,those blue leds really showed up nice.

Just when I think I getting this plane straightened out DSM switch throws a new normal at me!!!!!!!!
Old 01-31-2013, 10:42 PM
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Aerocal
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Default RE: Failed Range Check 2.4 Spectrum

Im not sure what you mean by "DSM compatible". Generally a switch that has an indicator light/led has the light/led across the leads on the load side of the switch.It will light anytime there is power on that side of the switch.The bus on a Rx goes all the way across all ports.If you power it anywhere it will energize the entire bus.The power is simply backfeeding to the Load side of your other switch and powering the indicator.
Old 02-01-2013, 05:46 AM
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BuschBarber
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Default RE: Failed Range Check 2.4 Spectrum


ORIGINAL: Checklst

Problem with new switches....need to know if its normal. I just got my new HD switches from Taildragger they have a blue led light to show you if it turned on, both switches are 3 wire 20AWG wire and are DSM compatible so I can bind from the charge port.....the one that is plugged into the Bind data port anyway.

Hear is my problem I am running 2 switches and 2 Batts parallel.....one switch is in the Bind data port(AR7010 receiver) the second switch/battery is plugged into a empty port(gear) No matter which switch I turn on first the other switches BLUE light comes on even if that switch is in the off position................is this normal for DSM switches??? if so it kinda makes the blue light worthless!!!!!it seems the single batt is powering the receivers buss and then powers the second switches blue light in the off position. If this is normal I wont purchase switches with lights.....I can paint over the led lights but what a shame,those blue leds really showed up nice.

Just when I think I getting this plane straightened out DSM switch throws a new normal at me!!!!!!!!
I have not heard of a DSM Switch. The term used for the 3 wire switches that support Binding through the Charge Jack are called DSC Compatible. In 72Mhz days, you could connect DSC compatible transmitters to your DSC compatible receiver by connecting a DSC cable between the Tx and the Rx and control the Rx without turning on the Tx (No RF). DSC stands for Direct Servo Control.

I have run Dual Rx batteries in the past just as you have done. Turning on either Switch powers the Rx. I have not had a Switch Harness with a Blue light. Some MPI Switch Harnesses had lights to indicate whether the Rx battery voltage was safe. I think they were Red, Yellow, and Green.
Old 02-01-2013, 10:35 AM
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Checklst
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Default RE: Failed Range Check 2.4 Spectrum

Thanks BuschBarber for the response......as you can see my terminology of 2.4 is lacking (LOL) just starting to learn..................The switch is a 6 wire with the ability to Bind through the charge jack.....the dealer used the term Spektrum DSM comparable in his ad...........thats where I got my wires crossed so to speak.

Now his switches are set up with 3 wires out the back of the switch going down to the Batt......the 3rd wire white, is not doing anything on that side of the switch the batt is only 2 wire red ,black. Not sure how the charge jack is wire but it must use all 3 wires as it will bind from the charge jack.
As you slide the switch to on position the blue led comes on so it appears the blue led its wired to the front side of the switch going down to the receiver, so as the receiver buss is now live, the second switches red,black wires are now live turning on the blue led of the second switch....even though the switch is in the off position.

This might happen on the MPI switches red,yellow,green volt indicators lights if thay are wired to the on position leading to the receiver buss. THIS JUST means I can not use the lights to confirm that both switches are turned on in my checklist procedure. I might even black the led out so I can keep the checklist the same on all my non lighted switches, all of my planes are set up with switches in the same direction for on and off.

Thanks again, I need all the help I can get on this 2.4 adventure........Just trying to keep them above the dirt.
Old 02-02-2013, 03:23 AM
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Default RE: Failed Range Check 2.4 Spectrum

I use 1 JR HD switch and 1 Mpi Deans arming switch on all 3 of my gas planes.
I am using Spektrum receivers with a DX8 and have not had any problems.
I turn the JR switch on first to do my preflight check and then I put in the
deans arming plug.The only way for the arming switch to fail is for the arming plug to fall out or
have a wire break.I have very little voltage drop now that I installed the
arming switch.All my voltage test are done by watching the receiver voltage
on my DX8 telemetry,this way I know exactly what the voltage is at the receiver,not
at the charge plug to the battery.Also try to use as few connections as you can from
battery to receiver.Every connection has some resistance causing voltage drop.
Hope this helps you out

Roy
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:00 PM
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Checklst
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Default RE: Failed Range Check 2.4 Spectrum

Thanks I have been looking at the deans arming plug.........KISS.............been flying 2 switches for 24 years,maybe it time to go switchesless.
Old 02-03-2013, 09:28 AM
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P47Tbolt
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Default RE: Failed Range Check 2.4 Spectrum

Here is a quick diagram of one of my setups.
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Old 02-08-2013, 05:35 PM
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Checklst
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Default RE: Failed Range Check 2.4 Spectrum


ORIGINAL: P47Tbolt
Here is a quick diagram of one of my setups.

Up date on the 540.....I just replaced all switches with a HD switch with 20awg wire from tail dragger and she passes the range check with flying colors..........Thanks for the diagram P47tbolt.....I am getting my supplys for my next project...it will be switchless using deans with arming plugs. I also am looking into 123's 2 cells packs from NoBs battery with deans plugs with the JR 3 wire addition to charge each cell separate(no need for a balance board) and you check voltage of each cell seperate with a standard load meter. Looks interesting....still doing the research ,it will be a few weeks before I decide on a plane.......30cc MXSR green or a edge 540 74" 30cc Green. As you can see I want a green airplane.

http://www.redwingrc.com/index.php?m...products_id=15
https://www.aerobeez.com/30-35cc-gas...arf-rc-planes/
Old 02-08-2013, 10:18 PM
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Aerocal
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Default RE: Failed Range Check 2.4 Spectrum

Very good. Id like to add one reminder that is often overlooked. A servo type connector has a very marginal rating when you go into higher current systems. It is basically 3amp continuous/5a max.
In p47s diagram it shows a 14ga lead being necked down to 22 and one servo connector into the Rx bus.IMO its mandatory at this point to branch into at least 2 servo connector leads and plug both into Rx bus.In an extremely current hungry system it may require more than 2 or some other arrangement .The servo type connector is the bottleneck.
Just food for thought.
Old 03-30-2013, 07:50 AM
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P47Tbolt
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Default RE: Failed Range Check 2.4 Spectrum

I am using 5 Htec 5645 and 1 Futaba s3152 on this setup with no problems,but this is not a current hungry setup.
I am basically eliminating the current drop across 1 swith and using as few connections as I can to eliminate the current drop across them.
I use 1 on/off switch to turn the sytem on first ,then I plug in the deans arming switch.This way I do not get a voltage spike or arc at the deans arming
plug.If I was using HV servos or 2 per wing,I would use a smartfly power system that could handle the current,but with what I am using I just keep it simple.
I have never had a loss of signal or "brown out" with this setup.


ORIGINAL: Aerocal

Very good. Id like to add one reminder that is often overlooked. A servo type connector has a very marginal rating when you go into higher current systems. It is basically 3amp continuous/5a max.
In p47s diagram it shows a 14ga lead being necked down to 22 and one servo connector into the Rx bus.IMO its mandatory at this point to branch into at least 2 servo connector leads and plug both into Rx bus.In an extremely current hungry system it may require more than 2 or some other arrangement .The servo type connector is the bottleneck.
Just food for thought.

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