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DSM2 lockout?

Old 05-15-2013, 07:51 AM
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stevegauth30
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Default DSM2 lockout?

hi guys. im wondering if alot of people are experiencing problems with DSM2 rx`s. three guys at my club in the last few weeks had planes go in due to lockout/ brownout. all three of them had the spektrum DSM2 recievers. one of them was a 33% extra on a maiden flight. i feel for him. i personaly have never once had a single glitch, knock on wood, but its got me worried. i have AR7000`s in all my planes. just wondering if you all were seeing the same types of things. thanks, Steve.
Old 05-15-2013, 08:52 AM
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Default RE: DSM2 lockout?

If you do a search on RCU and other forums you will find a lot of discussion about problem with DSM2 up untill about a year ago when
Spektrum switched to DSMX.
Old 05-15-2013, 12:33 PM
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Default RE: DSM2 lockout?

I see an awful lot of the same kind of things. Ppl claiming lockout/brownout or whatever the claim happens to be.This is true across all brands. More so lately it is from brands other then Spektrum.
The first thing to get blamed is the radio system itself.The last thing to get blamed is the user. Ive generally fouind that 99.9 some% of the time it is user error by not setTing up the system correctly.
I have the sneaky suspicion that the huge percentage of failures before we even had 2.4 systems was user error but the "I got hit" or "I had a lockout" was the simple scapegoat and the true cause of many issues is never even investigated further.
There will always be these kinds of reports.The majority of users simply plug a bunch of stuff in and assume its all going to work flawlessly.When it doesnt they blame the one thing they have no control over.
I personally havent had these issues with Spektrum nor did I have the constant "lockouts" when I was using 72 before going to 2.4. I take an engineered approach to setups over the Plug and Pray method.
Its worked very well for me.Lately it seems Im teaching this concept to many users. Most just happen to be using other than Spektrum and have been through several brands and the same problems persist.
They have finally reluctantly admitted to themselves they might be a big part of the problem and are willing to learn basic electrical theory and proper setup.
When I hear "I had a lockout or brownout or something" its obvious there is no basic understanding of how the system works.
Brownout and Lockout are 2 completely different directions like Left and Right or Up and Down.If you cant distinguish between the 2 its time to go back to school.
Old 05-15-2013, 01:24 PM
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Default RE: DSM2 lockout?

If you have a "brown out" it means your voltage went down. A "lock out" means loss of signal. you should have your fail safe set. If the receiver has trouble it will go into failsafe and you have something to talk about. If the battery fails or becomes unpluged you have nothing but it's not the radio doing it.
Old 05-15-2013, 01:36 PM
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Default RE: DSM2 lockout?


ORIGINAL: Aerocal

I see an awful lot of the same kind of things. Ppl claiming lockout/brownout or whatever the claim happens to be.This is true across all brands. More so lately it is from brands other then Spektrum.
The first thing to get blamed is the radio system itself.The last thing to get blamed is the user. Ive generally fouind that 99.9 some% of the time it is user error by not setTing up the system correctly.
I have the sneaky suspicion that the huge percentage of failures before we even had 2.4 systems was user error but the ''I got hit'' or ''I had a lockout'' was the simple scapegoat and the true cause of many issues is never even investigated further.
There will always be these kinds of reports.The majority of users simply plug a bunch of stuff in and assume its all going to work flawlessly.When it doesnt they blame the one thing they have no control over.
I personally havent had these issues with Spektrum nor did I have the constant ''lockouts'' when I was using 72 before going to 2.4. I take an engineered approach to setups over the Plug and Pray method.
Its worked very well for me.Lately it seems Im teaching this concept to many users. Most just happen to be using other than Spektrum and have been through several brands and the same problems persist.
They have finally reluctantly admitted to themselves they might be a big part of the problem and are willing to learn basic electrical theory and proper setup.
When I hear ''I had a lockout or brownout or something'' its obvious there is no basic understanding of how the system works.
Brownout and Lockout are 2 completely different directions like Left and Right or Up and Down.If you cant distinguish between the 2 its time to go back to school.
For goodness sake, Aerocal, don't try to interrupt this thread with logic. How can these lockout/brownout crash stories continue if you keep bringing facts into the discussion.
Old 05-15-2013, 02:55 PM
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Default RE: DSM2 lockout?


ORIGINAL: DadsToysBG

If you have a ''brown out'' it means your voltage went down. A ''lock out'' means loss of signal. you should have your fail safe set. If the receiver has trouble it will go into failsafe and you have something to talk about. If the battery fails or becomes unpluged you have nothing but it's not the radio doing it.
If you have a receiver failure or a Brownout, there is no Failsafe event, only with the loss of signal is there a Failsafe event.
Old 05-16-2013, 08:34 AM
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DadsToysBG
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Default RE: DSM2 lockout?

I said nothing about failure, and you are right it's toast. A "brownout will reboot the receiver when the power comes back up. A lock out will put the plane in fail safe. All the systems work this way.
Old 05-16-2013, 07:09 PM
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Default RE: DSM2 lockout?


ORIGINAL: DadsToysBG

A lock out will put the plane in fail safe.
The failsafe never activated during the lockouts I have had. Turning off the transmitter during the lockout didn't activate the failsafe either. Once the receiver was powered off and rebooted, turning off the transmitter activated the failsafe just like it was supposed to.
Old 05-16-2013, 07:38 PM
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BuschBarber
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Default RE: DSM2 lockout?


ORIGINAL: Dave McDonald


ORIGINAL: DadsToysBG

A lock out will put the plane in fail safe.
The failsafe never activated during the lockouts I have had. Turning off the transmitter during the lockout didn't activate the failsafe either. Once the receiver was powered off and rebooted, turning off the transmitter activated the failsafe just like it was supposed to.
Perhaps you had a Brownout and not a Lockout.
Old 05-16-2013, 07:42 PM
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Dave McDonald
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Default RE: DSM2 lockout?


ORIGINAL: BuschBarber


ORIGINAL: Dave McDonald


ORIGINAL: DadsToysBG

A lock out will put the plane in fail safe.
The failsafe never activated during the lockouts I have had. Turning off the transmitter during the lockout didn't activate the failsafe either. Once the receiver was powered off and rebooted, turning off the transmitter activated the failsafe just like it was supposed to.
Perhaps you had a Brownout and not a Lockout.
If it would have been a brownout, the light on the receiver would have been flashing instead of on steady.
Old 05-16-2013, 07:46 PM
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BuschBarber
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Default RE: DSM2 lockout?


ORIGINAL: Dave McDonald


ORIGINAL: BuschBarber


ORIGINAL: Dave McDonald


ORIGINAL: DadsToysBG

A lock out will put the plane in fail safe.
The failsafe never activated during the lockouts I have had. Turning off the transmitter during the lockout didn't activate the failsafe either. Once the receiver was powered off and rebooted, turning off the transmitter activated the failsafe just like it was supposed to.
Perhaps you had a Brownout and not a Lockout.
If it would have been a brownout, the light on the receiver would have been flashing instead of on steady.
Daven- Did you have a DSMX receiver?
Old 05-16-2013, 09:31 PM
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Dave McDonald
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Default RE: DSM2 lockout?

Not DSMX.

They were all 6110e receivers, plus one Orange 610 receiver.
Old 05-17-2013, 05:31 AM
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BuschBarber
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ORIGINAL: Dave McDonald

Not DSMX.

They were all 6110e receivers, plus one Orange 610 receiver.
Thanks!
Old 05-17-2013, 06:24 AM
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Default RE: DSM2 lockout?

Dave,

What type of planes were you using the 6110e in? - it's a indoor/parkflyer only Rx for small electric/non-powered aircraft

Steve
Old 05-17-2013, 07:28 AM
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Dave McDonald
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Default RE: DSM2 lockout?

All of the 6110e lockouts were in electric foamy planes. The Orange 610 lockout was in a small balsa electric plane. The farthest distance was less than 100 feet from the transmitter, the closest was about 15 feet away. Some were indoors, most were outdoors.
Old 05-17-2013, 07:52 AM
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Default RE: DSM2 lockout?

A loss of signal will trigger a fail safe if you programed it. The small receivers only have it on the throttle, the larger receivers will do all the flight services.
A failure of the receiver is toast. you can have a fried receiver or total power failure then no fail safe.
Old 05-17-2013, 08:45 AM
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Dave McDonald
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The failsafe worked perfectly again AFTER the receiver had been powered off and powered back on, just like it had been programmed to do originally. During the lockout, the throttle did not go to the failsafe condition, even when the transmitter was turned off. Turning off the transmitter and turning it back on did not end the lockout. The lockout ended and the receiver worked perfectly again only after it had been powered off and then back on.
Old 08-26-2013, 09:52 PM
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I too have had problems with my DX7 (older DSM2 modulation). Over the last 5 years I've lost 3 planes to lockout (plus I suspect another crash that I previously just figured I dumb thumbed it). Every time I tried to blame another component in the system. I used bigger life packs, changed reciever everytime, threw away power switches, and even changed the direction of the transmitter antenna. Yet 3 times it happened again. I finally determined it was the transmitter and sent it back to horizon hobbies along with the receivers (AR7000 and 2 AR500's). They said they found nothing wrong with the transmitter, but did find something wrong with all 3 receivers and replaced them. While I'm grateful they replaced my RX's, I'm suspicious that they were all bad and still don't know if I trust the DSM2 link or my DX7 radio for that matter. I would really like Horizon to man up and tell us what's really going on.
Old 08-26-2013, 10:17 PM
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I went through the same thing. I had four different lockouts with four different receivers in four different electric foamy planes. The only thing in common with the lockouts was the DX7 transmitter. So I sent it in to Horizon to be repaired. They determined that nothing was wrong with the DX7 transmitter, but the four 6110e were probably defective and I needed to send them in. So I did and they replaced all four of them for free. Plus they gave me two extra 6110e receivers when they found out I also owned a 12FG.

Fast forward and I had two more lockouts with the replacement 6110e receivers. So I sold them all.

All I really want to know is an honest answer to two questions.

1. What caused the lockouts?
2. What can I do to prevent the lockouts from happening in the first place?
Old 08-27-2013, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by stevegauth30@comcast.net View Post
hi guys. im wondering if alot of people are experiencing problems with DSM2 rx`s. three guys at my club in the last few weeks had planes go in due to lockout/ brownout. all three of them had the spektrum DSM2 recievers. one of them was a 33% extra on a maiden flight. i feel for him. i personaly have never once had a single glitch, knock on wood, but its got me worried. i have AR7000`s in all my planes. just wondering if you all were seeing the same types of things. thanks, Steve.
I have a number of DSM2 receivers in various planes, I have never experienced any problems, even switching between different Spektrum and JR Transmitters, they always just work perfectly.

I am very pedantic about my equipment and will conduct extensive testing of any new RX and TX before I actually trust them to an aircraft.

I bought 3 Spektrum receivers from Ebay, (that I suspect were fakes) - I range tested them myself using normal power mode on the TX and they only gave me around 300-400 meters. I threw them away. Perhaps a waste of money but I see it as cheap insurance. A Full range receiver normally works to over 4000 meters line of sight.

The latest generation of receivers use DSMX which is a vast improvement over DSM2. But you will need a DSMX transmitter also.
Old 08-27-2013, 09:53 AM
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If you are implying that the 6110e receivers that locked out on me were fakes, you would be wrong. All four were genuine Spektrum receivers that were purchased from a local hobby shop. The two extra 6110e receivers came directly from Horizon, so they couldn't have been fake either.
Old 08-27-2013, 09:04 PM
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I've been doing lots of research on the subject. From what I gather the DSM2 modulation is actually suspect to high 2.4g noise areas. It only uses two frequencies and if those two frequencies are simultaniously interrupted by 2.4g noise, the RX will reboot to find 2 different frequencies. Other modulations like fasst and fhss will constantly pick new frequincies, so if one is compromised it's already jumped to another frequency before the pilot even knows there was a problem. Spektrum has corrected this problem with DSMX which still uses spread spektrum modulation but ads frequency hoping as well. Just for the record, this info is just what I found while surfing web and is not me claiming I actually figured this out or even know what I'm talking about. Just passing on what I found.

It seems to me now that Horizons quick fix for all the DSM2 woes is the new quick connect programing in their new receivers. When old rx's rebooted due to an rf link break or low voltage brownout, it took 3-5 seconds to find 2 new frequencies and regain control of the servos. The new rx's are supposed to reboot in 4/100 second. My guess is that's why they're so generous with handing out new receivers.

My conclusion is they are just trying to buy enough time with bogus "bad reciever, here's a new one free" line until DSM2 radios are gone by means of attrition. They do offer a DSMX upgrade for your old DSM2 radio, but they charge you $75. Personally I feel they should do the upgrade for free as a recall, seeing how many many people (myself included) have lost very expensive planes by trusting them to DSM2. I bet when a brownout/lockout plane finally kills a person (by crashing onto their head), Horizon will offer upgrade for free!!! Just saying

Last edited by fasteststang; 08-27-2013 at 09:09 PM. Reason: fix typo's. big fingers little keyboard
Old 08-28-2013, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave McDonald View Post
If you are implying that the 6110e receivers that locked out on me were fakes, you would be wrong. All four were genuine Spektrum receivers that were purchased from a local hobby shop. The two extra 6110e receivers came directly from Horizon, so they couldn't have been fake either.

Hi Dave,

No I wasn't implying that at all.. just sharing my experience.. no offense intended..
Old 08-28-2013, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by fasteststang View Post
I've been doing lots of research on the subject. From what I gather the DSM2 modulation is actually suspect to high 2.4g noise areas. It only uses two frequencies and if those two frequencies are simultaniously interrupted by 2.4g noise, the RX will reboot to find 2 different frequencies. Other modulations like fasst and fhss will constantly pick new frequincies, so if one is compromised it's already jumped to another frequency before the pilot even knows there was a problem. Spektrum has corrected this problem with DSMX which still uses spread spektrum modulation but ads frequency hoping as well. Just for the record, this info is just what I found while surfing web and is not me claiming I actually figured this out or even know what I'm talking about. Just passing on what I found.

It seems to me now that Horizons quick fix for all the DSM2 woes is the new quick connect programing in their new receivers. When old rx's rebooted due to an rf link break or low voltage brownout, it took 3-5 seconds to find 2 new frequencies and regain control of the servos. The new rx's are supposed to reboot in 4/100 second. My guess is that's why they're so generous with handing out new receivers.

My conclusion is they are just trying to buy enough time with bogus "bad reciever, here's a new one free" line until DSM2 radios are gone by means of attrition. They do offer a DSMX upgrade for your old DSM2 radio, but they charge you $75. Personally I feel they should do the upgrade for free as a recall, seeing how many many people (myself included) have lost very expensive planes by trusting them to DSM2. I bet when a brownout/lockout plane finally kills a person (by crashing onto their head), Horizon will offer upgrade for free!!! Just saying
My 5 year old mobile phone had lots of dropouts and disconnected calls, My brand new Iphone is perfect, never drops a call..

My point is, yes perhaps the first generation of DSM2 receivers were more sensitive to brownouts and slower to reconnect from a dropout, but they identified the problems and corrected them in later versions which are now as good as any other brand..

Same thing happens with all electronic products, IOS updates? Windows updates? new versions of the Ipads, Iphones, Samsung Galaxy Tabs?

Here is an excellent review of DSMX - A $75 upgrade is cheap insurance in my opinion..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQKoXpj-FeI If you bought a car 5 years ago, they are not going to upgrade the engine management computer to the latest version for free either.

When you bought your radio as DSM2 it was the technology of the day, now they have released DSMX which is an improvement in technology

If you bought an Ipad One 3 years ago you can't take it back and ask for a free updgrade to a retina display and lightning connecter can you?

Regardless of what you buy today there will be updated and improved versions in the near future.

Last edited by Rob2160; 08-28-2013 at 07:20 PM.
Old 08-28-2013, 07:03 PM
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Last edited by Rob2160; 08-28-2013 at 07:11 PM.

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