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Karbonite Gear Strength

Old 02-09-2005, 08:52 PM
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seagull extra
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Default Karbonite Gear Strength

There have been some reports of the Karbonite gears in Hitec servos not performing as expected. I have bought several of these servos for a 25% Extra 300 and a 1.20 size sukhoi. In the manufacture support form I asked Hitec if they could post some of their test results supporting their claims of Karbonite gears being 4x stronger than the standard white resin gears but they just deleted my post without answering my question. If anybody has done any testing or has any information on these gears I would like to hear it.
Old 02-09-2005, 09:53 PM
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famousdave
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Default RE: Karbonite Gear Strength

I had them in my 25% aerobat for over 250 flights. Never an issue, in fact they were still tight as new. I replaced the gears anyway, as I do this normally in all my high-use servos, but they still seemed very good.

DP
Old 02-10-2005, 04:38 AM
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XJet
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Default RE: Karbonite Gear Strength

ORIGINAL: seagull extra
There have been some reports of the Karbonite gears in Hitec servos not performing as expected. I have bought several of these servos for a 25% Extra 300 and a 1.20 size sukhoi. In the manufacture support form I asked Hitec if they could post some of their test results supporting their claims of Karbonite gears being 4x stronger than the standard white resin gears but they just deleted my post without answering my question. If anybody has done any testing or has any information on these gears I would like to hear it.
Well I posted quite a bit of information and the results of my own objective and scientifically valid testing on Hitec's gearsets and their claims in respect to servo speeds and torque.

Suffice to say these results were not flattering and the postings were also deleted double-quick.

I've since been asked not to make further contributions to threads in the Hitec forum. N'uff said eh?

I still continue to use my Hitec servos because, so long as you don't believe *all* the claims made for them, they're pretty good value.

Karbonite however, was obviously invented by the marketing department and pushed out the door with some outrageous claims that simply are not verified in actual use. If they hadn't got all carried away with the hype I expect that everyone would have been much happier.

The reality is that Karbonite *is* stronger than nylon but it most certainly is not appreciably tougher (look up an engineering text if you're not aware of the distinction between these two terms).

Karbonite (why name a product after something that sound's as if it'd make even Superman weaken?) is a good material when used within its limits. The unfortunate thing is that Hitec blatantly over-sold it and exagerated those limits to the extent that many people had expectations that simply weren't fulfilled.

They ought to take the marketing exec who came up with this propaganda out and shoot him because I feel it's probably done their otherwise impecable reputation a load of damage.
Old 02-10-2005, 06:32 AM
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ScottK
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Default RE: Karbonite Gear Strength

As to posting in any Support Forum:
[link]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/announcement.asp?id=24[/link]

I'll repost from the Hitec Support forum here.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

H9 33% Sukhoi w ZDZ-80 and CF gear/wing tube: ~ 23 lbs

220 flights with HS-5925MG's all around before I switched to Karbonite. 111 flights since I switched.

I'm using HS-6975HB's on elevators (1 each) and ailerons (2 each). I'll add them to my floating bellcrank rudder setup when the slop on the current metal gears gets to be too much.

Although I fly a blend of pattern and 3D, when I flip to 3D rates, I don't hold back. I do all of the moves (extreme surface deflection) at low to moderate speed.

I mention (moderate) speed, because I previously stripped a metal geared servo on elevator doing a pop-up at a slightly higher speed.

When I bought my first 33% plane used, it had HS-605BB's (nylon gears) in it that I continued to use without issue for 50 flights doing extreme 3D as well.

No issues, and no gear slop after more than a hundred flights is a wonderful improvement over metal gears.

I'm a satisfied customer - your mileage may vary.
Old 02-10-2005, 10:14 AM
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famousdave
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Default RE: Karbonite Gear Strength

Hint - posting negative comments or "data" on a support forum is most likely to be deleted instantly. The forums are for asking questions and getting 1:1 replies from the reps..

Pull a person's pants down in public and you're going to get what you get!

DP
Old 02-10-2005, 06:02 PM
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GarySS
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Default RE: Karbonite Gear Strength

To DesertPig,
When you replaced the Karbonite gears did you replace them with Karbonite or another type? Also, which Hitec servo were/are you using in your 25% aerobat? Thanks.
Old 02-11-2005, 12:47 PM
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Geistware
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Default RE: Karbonite Gear Strength

I guess I need to send mine off to Hitec to have them replace the gears but all I fly is GS planes so I guess I will have a very accurage and strong throttle and choke! [:@]
Old 02-11-2005, 03:08 PM
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GBR2
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Default RE: Karbonite Gear Strength

A bit off topic. I read the blurb about posting in support forums but if there is only suppose to be a 1:1 answer thing how come I see lots of people posting to threads who are not moderators or "owners" of the forum? So it isn't necessarily posting in a support forum thread so much as what you post. At least it seems that way.

As to Karbonite, it would be nice to see some actual data directly from HiTec to support their claims. If it is so good why don't they get rid of all the nylon gears?? Or at least make Karbonite gear sets available as an option for the various nylon gear servos?
Old 02-11-2005, 05:55 PM
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MikeMayberry
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Default RE: Karbonite Gear Strength

Please note that Scott K's 33% 23lb plane fits the guidlines of the 12lb limit per servo, per flight control surface we are suggesting and he has had no problems.

Hitec has not released any nylon geared servos in a while; everything has either been Karbonite, metal or Titanium.

Mike.
Old 02-12-2005, 08:04 AM
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Geistware
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Default RE: Karbonite Gear Strength

OK, Mike,
If I understand this response correctly, If I use 4 servos in the wing of a 24lb plane that is 6 lbs per servo and that is OK. If I use two in the elevator, that is 12lb per servo and is still OK. If the plane in both cases weighed 28lbs, it would be OK for the ailerons (7lbs per servo) but too much for the elevator at 14lbs per servo?


ORIGINAL: MikeMayberry

Please note that Scott K's 33% 23lb plane fits the guidlines of the 12lb limit per servo, per flight control surface we are suggesting and he has had no problems.

Hitec has not released any nylon geared servos in a while; everything has either been Karbonite, metal or Titanium.

Mike.
Old 02-12-2005, 12:00 PM
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Waco
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Default RE: Karbonite Gear Strength

I was going to try some of the Karbonite gear servos for a 28% plane and after reading a # of posts by the Hitec Rep. I went with the metal gear ones. He stated that The only planes Hitec recommends for the Karbonite gear servos was one it had to be a glow engine, no gassers to much vibration, 2. They did not recommend Karbonite gear servos for anything over 12 lbs. in weight. Well that is what I understand from all my readings, Well that left me out, I fly all gassers. He said you might get by with using them in gassers but the risk is yours.
Old 02-13-2005, 03:46 PM
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Default RE: Karbonite Gear Strength

Some good info so far. I'm glad to hear the positive results in the larger planes. I'm going to go ahead and try the servos. I'm using glow in my 25% extra so I think I'll be ok. I took the cases apart on my 6635 and 6985 and the gears look nice and beefy. The 6985 gears are very large. I would not think twice about installing them if they were nylon so if the Karbonite is at least on par with nylon I don't think I will have a problem. I would still be very interested in a direct comparison between the 311 servo and the 322 so we would know exactly how the Karbonite compares to nylon as these are the only two servos that come in both nylon and Karbonite gear sets that I am aware of. I still think there is a possibility that the Karbonite gears are more brittle than the nylon gears so I would feel much better about these servos if the 322 gears clearly out perform the 311 gears.
Old 02-14-2005, 01:35 PM
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Default RE: Karbonite Gear Strength

I just read the 12 lb rule in the hitec support forum and the hitec rep there clearly stated no planes over 12 lbs and DEFINITELY NO GASSERS due to the higher vibrations. So based on this, Scott is not following the support forum recommendations. I think Mike Mayberry, Mike Glavin and Brandon and the Marketing department at Hitec need to get their stories straight.
Old 02-14-2005, 06:58 PM
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MikeMayberry
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Default RE: Karbonite Gear Strength

12 lbs per servo has proven to be a solid rule of thumb. There was some miscomunication on the 12lb total limit. This is the case for single servo applications only. You can still gang servos in larger planes as long as you stick to the 12lb per servo, per flight control surface rule.

In high vibration applications (big singles) it is best to stick with metal gears. When in doubt use metal gears.

Sorry if there has been some confusion.

Mike.
Old 02-15-2005, 05:06 PM
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Geistware
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Default RE: Karbonite Gear Strength

OK, thanks Mike,
I will send mine off for service and use them on my plane when they come back!

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