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Mode 1 Flyers, UNITE!!

Old 10-15-2005, 11:10 AM
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Mode One
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Default Mode 1 Flyers, UNITE!!

If you fly MODE 1, do you feel alone? Hey, there are plenty of us out there, we may just be fewer and farther between now-a-days. However, I'd like to hear from you. Lets get into why we fly mode 1 and what we feel is better about it and where the pockets of MODE 1 flyers are located.

When I started out, in 1975, MODE 1 was what the greatest amount of flyers in my club flew (TCRC in the Twin Cities, MN). It became apparent that MODE 1 was the easiest way to go to the field and get good help. Some guys stuck with MODE 2 and god love'm they're tenacity got them through! At this time the greatest flyer in the world (Hanno Prettner of Liechtenstien) flew MODE 1. I think there is a strong contingency of MODE 1 flyers in Europe.

MODE 1 has many benifits, can you name a few?

For people starting out, the MODE2 guys will tell them that MODE 2 is more like flying a real airplane. I think this statement is over rated. Not many planes fly with "Joy Sticks" anymore so although somewhat true the reality is most planes fly with a yoke now. Flying a model and flying a real airplane are differant endeavors, anyway.

So, what do you have to say about this. Yea, I'm sure some MODE 2 guys will chime in and that's fine!
Old 10-15-2005, 02:49 PM
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bhanley
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Default RE: Mode 1 Flyers, UNITE!!

Well mode 1 is easier to fly - you have less critical cross coupling (aileron/elev as in mode 2 vs aileron/rudder in mode 1). However, it is the alone thing! Also, getting help and/or sharing planes is a real problem. So, after many years, I converted myself last winter and went over to the dark side and now fly mode 2. Cost me one airplane.
Old 10-15-2005, 10:03 PM
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Default RE: Mode 1 Flyers, UNITE!!

Don't feel too bad about the loss of your model while crossing over, as though I've never flown Mode 1, I've lost several planes simply learning to fly Mode 2.

It's the price we pay for doing the thing that gives us so much enjoyment.

Karol
Old 10-15-2005, 10:43 PM
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rccrazedman
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Default RE: Mode 1 Flyers, UNITE!!

i don 't know what mode is better. I may have got used to the so called dreaded mode, but after being used to one thing I don't know how easy it would be to change. does mode one flip the ail and rudder ? or does it flip the throttle also ?
Old 10-16-2005, 12:51 PM
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Default RE: Mode 1 Flyers, UNITE!!

With regard to which one is better.....thats an easy one..... neither. While each may have advantages that SOME people may like, the fact is that both are viable options there are experts on both. Chip - mode 2, Quique - mode 1. Having said that, there are for sure more mode 2 flyers than mode 1. Definately in the USA and I would guess world wide, though I am sure that there are regions that this is not true. So, why is this? Another easy one. The manufacturers market (USA) there radios mode 2 because that is what "everybody" is using. "Everybody", is using it because that is the way they bought their radio. One feeds the other and mode 2 has evolved over the years as the standard. At one time people may have had to make a choice as to which mode they would fly, but I don't think that happens much today, especially with mode 2.

Me? Well I used to fly mode 2 but have switched for some time now to mode 1. I prefer the separation of aileron and elevator for ease in preventing accidentally influencing one while moving the other (like in slow and point rolls). But hey, thats just me. The sharing and flying each others planes doesn't apply to me as I do not fly other peoples models nor to I let other people fly mine. Again, that is just me. The "mode 2 is more like flying a real plane" argument is probably the one that I find the silliest. Fact is that flying an rc plane is so much different than flying a full scale that I don't think it really matters. They are two different disciplines as was pointed out earlier. Either way, it doesn't matter to me since I don't fly full scale and have no desire to start. Again, just me.

Bottom line, do either for whatever reasons you choose.

Mike
Old 10-16-2005, 03:39 PM
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Mode One
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Default RE: Mode 1 Flyers, UNITE!!

Mode 1 has throttle and ailerons on the right stick and elevator and rudder on the left. Only throttle and elevator are swapped. We have very good Mode 2 fliers in our club. I hear them tell new fliers not to feed in up elevator to slow down on approach to a landing until on final. With Mode 1, I can feed in up elevator as soon as I pull back throttle on the down wind leg. So, I am slowing the plane all the way down the approach. I think this is more difficult to do with ailerons and elevator on the same stick, as has been discussed. I'm not saying Mode 2 guys can't do the same thing.

Although the above is a point in favor of Mode 1, the real reason I fly mode 1 is that is what I was taught. I fly Airtronics radios, just bought a VG6000 this spring. Airtronics switched it to Mode 1 for me and all it cost me was the shipping to Airtronics.

I have flown Mode 2 on a G-3 simulator and managed to not crash the trainer type plane I was flying. In a tight spot, However, I'm sure I would pull back the throttle, instead of pulling up-elevator.

I like Mode 1 and don't think I would change to Mode 2 even if I could be assured I wouldn't crash. My interest was in locating other Mode Uno guys to assure them and myself we are not alone!!
Old 10-17-2005, 03:18 AM
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Jimmy Bananas
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Default RE: Mode 1 Flyers, UNITE!!



I've been a Mode 1 flyer since 1965,when I got my first propo (Kraft), radio...tried Mode 2 several years back and it was a total waste of time...Like the ole saying goes,'You can't teach an ole dog,new tricks"...woof-woof..I feel it's a pilots choice..either mode is OK
Old 10-17-2005, 03:25 AM
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Default RE: Mode 1 Flyers, UNITE!!

Humans are highly adaptive creatures and can learn to do all sorts of difficult tasks involving considerable levels of dexterity and reactive response.

Gosh, we can ride a bicycle, touch-type; and some can even walk and chew gum at the same time :-)

All of this is a kind of long-winded way of saying that there's not really a whole lot of difference between mode 1 and 2 when comparing fliers of sinilar skill levels.

Yes, mode one does privde a useful lack of unintentional interaction between roll and pitch commands -- but it does introduce interactions between pitch and yaw and throttle and roll. Even after almost 40 years of flying mode 1 I still notice (with my 3D ships) that sometimes I am accidentally putting a little unintentional rudder with elevator.

I suspect that it's easier to hover a 3D ship using mode 2, because there's no unintentional coupling between rudder and elevator -- but I manage just fine with mode 1.

The bottom line is: whatever you're currently using and whatever feels most comfortable is probably the best mode for *you*.

Like many others, I've tried flying in another mode on the simulator and been surprised at how easy it is to dork even a slow-flying trainer. It's all because you've got to constantly force your conscious mind to over-ride those reactions you've built up over the years. It works fine until you get in a tricky position and then *wham* :-)

For the record, down in this part of the world, mode 1 is still more common, but it's slowly losing ground to mode 2, possibly because of all the RC gear being imported direct from the USA or the popularity of those cheap single-stick electric planes/toys that some start out with.
Old 10-17-2005, 07:46 AM
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Ed_Moorman
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Default RE: Mode 1 Flyers, UNITE!!

If you think mode 1 fliers are lonely, you should try flying mode 3, left handed.
Old 10-17-2005, 10:15 AM
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Mode One
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Default RE: Mode 1 Flyers, UNITE!!

Ed,

I haven't seen a single stick Tx in many a year. Do Mfgers still make them? When you say left handed, is the single stick on the left hand side of the Tx, or have you had to adapt to what is available?

I've heard Mode 2 guys say about Mode 1 guys; They fly that screwy mode with the sticks all backwards!

I have heard that Mode 1 is a carry-over from flying the previous type of multi-channel radios to propo, which were "Reeds". Reed transmitters used toggle switches to control the various channels (rudder, elevator, ailerons etc...). The primary flight controls were toggle switches which were center off switches, The toggles were blipped to allow smooth operation. In order to work two controls at the same time, the switches had to be controlled by two thumbs. I believe ailerons were controlled with the right thumb and elevator by the left and this is how Mode 1 came about. When these folks transitioned to proportional radios it made sense to them to keep the same stick configuration.

I agree, to espouse one mode over the other is foolishness. Again, my reason for starting this thread was to have a "hopefully" friendly discussion on Mode 1 and find other like minded R/Cers.
Old 10-17-2005, 11:18 AM
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Ed_Moorman
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Default RE: Mode 1 Flyers, UNITE!!

Mode 3 is a left handed mode 2, aileron/elevator on the left and rudder/throttle on the right.

Single stick has one stick for aileron/elevator and either a knob for rudder and finger adjustment for throttle or a thumb lever on top for rudder and the finger adjustment for throttle. The rudder knob is what most regular fliers used. Pattern and competition fliers normally used the top thumb rudder, at least according to Ron Chidgey who won pattern at the Nats twice back in the 1960's.

Single stick fliers were only a very small part of the flying population and by and large, it was only used in the US. When the Japanese began to take over the radio market, they produced single stick for a while, but phased them out. They were more expensive to build and sell and newer fliers usually bought the low end "starter" stuff, so the single stick, except for a few die-hards, went into history.

There is a valid reason for flying mode 1, especially for competition. I fly a reversed mode 2 for a lefty, but if I had to do it again, I think I would set up mode 4, a left handed mode 1. In mode 1, you have the aileron and elevator on opposite hands. You can easily set the roll rate for a maneuver and make corrections with the other hand without affecting the roll rate. It's the springs pulling the stick to the center that get you, in my opinion. When you do a slow roll, for example, when you make elevator correction, there is a tendency to let the roll rate change. Sure you can learn to make the correction without changing roll, but it is easier with the split stick comfiguration. Take landing, for example. You can hold back stick for touchdown and make small roll corrections without changing the elevator. It is just easier with the primary controls split. I think this is the reason the old single stick competitors used the top rudder. With their left thumb they could make rudder corrections without moving the main comtrols.

Anyway, that's my take on sticks.
Old 10-17-2005, 11:31 AM
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bpannier
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Default RE: Mode 1 Flyers, UNITE!!

Learned on toggle switches Orbit . So have stayed with Mode one. Throttle control is a drawback as you tend to fly at full throttle most of the time. Stick to the top, a tray would help. Still fly some mode two learned on the Orbit 3 +1. I think most beginners do better on two.......
Old 10-17-2005, 01:17 PM
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Mode One
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Default RE: Mode 1 Flyers, UNITE!!

I always thought Mode 3 was single stick! However, I will go with Ed's opinion it's a left handed Mode 2.

I don't find flying at any throttle setting to be a problem. I like messing around with the stall and fly at lower throttle settings a lot of the time. I will agree that the throttle will be inadvertantly moved when putting in aileron input. However, you have a sound pitch change and it is easy enough to get the throttle back to the original setting via the sound. I agree that in certian instances there will be "Cross Coupling" to contend with no matter what mode you fly. I think one of the great points for flying Mode 2 is the ability to slap skeeters or biting flys without missing a beat!!
Old 10-18-2005, 06:58 PM
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Tim_Indy
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Default RE: Mode 1 Flyers, UNITE!!

When I learned to fly in the early 70s, 2/3 of the club was mode 1, and the other 1/3 was split between single stick and mode two. I left the hobby for 22 years until 1997, and on my return found that 99.9% of pilots were now mode 2.

I briefly considered switching, but decided that knocking off 22 years of rust was easier than learning to fly all over again.
Old 10-18-2005, 08:25 PM
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SGibson
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Default RE: Mode 1 Flyers, UNITE!!

I learned to fly mode one in 1968. My guess is about 60% flew mode one and the the other 40% flew mode two. Within a few years it seemed everybody gravitated to mode two.
I was out of the hobby for about 15 years. I got back into the hobby flying gliders and found out nobody flew mode one. So I could get some help off of winches and high starts, I switched to mode two. I never felt comfortable with mode two. After a couple of years, I bought another mode one and never felt better. The first time I went back to mode one was like getting back on a bike after several years. Everything simply fell into place and felt comfortable.
Old 10-19-2005, 08:08 AM
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Default RE: Mode 1 Flyers, UNITE!!

SGibson, I was out of the hobby for a time. Actually, it had been 14 years between flights! I considered going to Mode 2 when I got back in, however, I thought any reaction I had left would be thinking via Mode 1, so I stayed with Mode 1. My fist flight was a new radio, new Ultra Stick .40 sized plane and engine. I had a good Mode 2 flyer stand next to me while I took to the air, his encouragement and knowledge helped, he reminded me to throttle back. Everything went well! I felt rusty but my reactions were correct, even had to land dead stick! I don't know if the ease with which I came back is because of using Mode 1 or not. It's interesting we both felt comfortable coming back to it, in Mode 1!
Old 10-19-2005, 08:20 AM
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Ed_Moorman
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Default RE: Mode 1 Flyers, UNITE!!

A numbered mode was never used for single stick. It was always called "single stick." The numbers were for the different 2-stick variations.

Also, once you get past 2 for the mode, there is really no standard. JR calls my left-handed 2-stick variation "Mode 3." As I recall, Futaba calls the same mode "Stick 4" on their transmitters.

The reverse mode 1 with aileron and throttle on the left stick is flown by some in Europe.

You have to understand that mode 1 came about when radio technology went from reeds to proportional and the former reed fliers wanted a proportional radio that matched what they flew. Reeds, with the spring-loaded, bang-bang, toggle switches, required you to fly a split stick configuration. For those of you who do not know the history, a reed radio had a channel for up elevator and another one for down. You used a spring-loaded, "telephone operator" type toggle switch. When you moved the switch, the control went to full deflection. It was on or off full deflection (bang-bang). To make a smooth movement, you blipped the switch. This required you to use 2 hands, one for aileron and one for elevator. The top pattern fliers were great at moving both switches at the same time.

After proportional came along, those who flew reed flew with the same hands, hence, the first mode of 2-stick, Mode 1. The new fliers, if they could find someone to teach them, wanted, for the most part, to fly with controls like a full scale plane with aileron and elevator on the same stick. This became the a second variation or mode of a 2-stick transmitter, or mode 2 (or mode II).

I think I have stated that I feel there are advantages to mode 1 over mode 2 in the human factors, man-machine interface area of maneuver error correction area that are not there in mode 2. But, since most people don't compete it doesn't make much difference.
Old 10-21-2005, 03:44 AM
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Default RE: Mode 1 Flyers, UNITE!!

I fly mode 1, but then again being in Australia so do 95% of the population [8D]. I have tried mode 2 but found it quite difficult. I guess it just depends on what mode you learnt with.
Old 10-21-2005, 09:46 AM
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s3nfo
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Default RE: Mode 1 Flyers, UNITE!!

Mode 1 is backwards (dislesix) so shouldn't this be titled "Mode 1 flyers untie" :>)

Old 10-21-2005, 10:31 AM
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Bax
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Default RE: Mode 1 Flyers, UNITE!!

I remember reading about when NASA was developing the space shuttle. They did a lot of testing to determine how the controls should be laid out. Because it's a space ship, all flight controls would be on handsets, one at the end of each chair's arms. They tried the equivalents of Mode I, Mode II, 3, and a bunch of other modes we might consider...well...different. They found out that it made no difference in the pilot's ability to fly the shuttle if that's what they learned on, and they did have non-pilots in the test group to see how people learned to fly the thing.

The controls eventually wound up with a conventional stick under the right hand. Why? Because all of the shuttle pilots would be chosen from a pool of highly-experienced pilots. They had the regular stick handling skills so embedded in their muscle memory that it was useless to try to train them on a new system. Those guys actually performed worse, on average, than the ab-initio pilots. But who wants a greenhorn as your pilot or AC?
Old 10-21-2005, 02:57 PM
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Default RE: Mode 1 Flyers, UNITE!!

It still seems to me that some of you are attempting to direct this thread into a "My way is the best way" direction. This was never my intentions, when I started it. My idea was to start a thread for and about Mode 1 fliers. Why we like Mode 1 best and why we're sticking with it. Allowing Mode 1 fliers to communicate with each other. Good hearted fun poaking is fine, however scientific studies on which way is best don't mean much to those of us flying Mode 1 as in all likelyhood we're going to continue doing the same, no matter what Mode 2, 3 or others might think! I wanted to determine if Mode 1 still had a basis in the hobby. maybe someone can take a stab at how many Mode 1 guys there are, or something.

Everything doesn't have to become a competition!
Old 10-21-2005, 04:32 PM
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Bax
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Default RE: Mode 1 Flyers, UNITE!!

Hmmmm. I was trying to say that there is no "best". It's what you learned on that usually is the "best" for you, although some people were trained on Mode II since their first encounter with R/C flying, and then discovered that Mode I suited their abilities better. Their hand/eye coordination just liked it better.

In personal terms, there is a "best"....it's the one you're using and comfortable with. In absolute terms, they all do the job.
Old 10-21-2005, 04:50 PM
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Default RE: Mode 1 Flyers, UNITE!!

Three cheers for Bax....my sentiments exactly.

Karol
Old 10-21-2005, 05:24 PM
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Default RE: Mode 1 Flyers, UNITE!!

I disagree... somewhat. i do think there is a "optimum" configuration for the individual, depending on whether the person is right or left handed.

I fly like Ed Moorman: leftie Mode 3. I learned to fly RC pretty much on my own and I chose Mode 3 (mirror image of Mode 2) because it felt the most "natural". I am sure I could have learned to fly any of the other modes, but none would feel as natural as operating the primary flight controls (elevator + ailerons) with one's dominant hand.

For the record, my mom "corrected" me when I was very young to force me to write with my right hand. I stuck with it and even though I have been writing with my right hand for over 30yrs now, but it has never felt "natural" to me, the way I feel doing everything else with my left hand (holding a bat, racket, club, power tools, etc.). I doubt if I had learned Mode 2, it would ever feel natural, either. I may become proficient at it over time, but never be as good as I could be flying leftie.

When I started learning to play golf, the instructor tried to convince me to play rightie. He reasoned that being a leftie and playing right-handed actually is an advantage, because the leading hand/arm is actually the more important part of learning the correct golf swing. I followed his advice and stuck with it for quite a while, until my dominant hand instincts finally won over and I switched to swing leftie. My handicap dropped by 10 in less than 3months.
Old 10-21-2005, 05:48 PM
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Default RE: Mode 1 Flyers, UNITE!!

My apologies Bax. Although my response states it's in reply to you, I was responding to others whom were taking a competitive stance on Mode 1 VS Mode 2 or 3 or what ever! I whole heartedly agree with you, it's how you were taught. I started out with power planes and the club I was in, was heavily Mode 1 at that time, so I went with Mode 1. Then I got into sailplanes and flew on my own and could have learned Mode 2 with them, but stuck with Mode 1.

These forum threads have a mind of their own and tend to go where they will. If people are interested in being competitive with it, there is nothing I can do about it. I've simply been voicing my opinion that I wanted exchange between Mode 1 fliers.

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