Capt Jim

My Feedback: (168)

Spektrum has arrived and it seems like most everyone wants to take advantage of its features and benefits. Including pilots wanting to use it in their glow powered planes.
In response to requests for a clarification of the rules regarding insurance coverage, or possible denial thereof, a club officer has asked the AMA about their position on the use of the new Spektrum system.
The club officer says that the AMA tells him that they will NOT insure any use of the Spektrum system except in an electric plane.

BillS

No one can stop progress or change. Must be something else wrong.

Bill

exeter_acres

My Feedback: (2)

doesn't mean they won't in the future...

Spektrum has only been released as a park flyer system..

TLH101

My Feedback: (90)

I expect once they have proven reliable with Parkflyers, and they can be sure of the range, the AMA will push toward this type of system.

Capt Jim

My Feedback: (168)

It is my strongest hope that the Spektrum system, ( or another similar to it ), will prevail.
Our vulnerability via the present 72 Mhz system leaves far too much to chance interference and accident. And let us not forget those rare, but viscious, intentional shoot-downs.
I believe that when the system becomes reliable and accepted by the AMA...we will see a near total abandonment of the old 72Mhz system.

BillS

What we have now is very dangerous.

I have been and will be holding off purchasing radio gear until spread spectrum is available.

Bill

fritzthecat

My Feedback: (4)

Tell the Club Officer to get it from the AMA in writing. Until then I call BS. There is nothing on the AMA site concerning the use of Spektrum radios.
Parkflyers are not all electric. And even if you'd install the Spektrum in a 1/4 gas plane, it would still be safer than a 72Mhz system.

Fritz

JPMacG

My Feedback: (2)

I don't see how AMA can just say yes or no as the mood strikes them. They aren't an insurance company- they buy insurance for us. Whatever is written in legaleze in the fine print of the policy stands.

Geistware

My Feedback: (16)

Without knowing the details the rational for the AMA's response must be due to the limited range of the Spektrum system. We have a legal transmit power limit of 750mw. The Spektrum system can only have a maximum of 100mw. It will take others to say how much of a decrease in range this is, but it is simple that less power gives you less range. The real question would be why would you want to use a Spektrum system on a gas, electric or nitro plane that has the ability to fly 1/4 mile away?

fritzthecat

My Feedback: (4)

Because real life field tests show the Spektrum to have a range in excess of 3000 feet. That's on the ground and would be longer in the air. That is about 1 km or over 1/2 mile.

Fritz

jonkoppisch

My Feedback: (162)

I've heard rumors in D5 that the ama was very concerned with the use of the spektrum radio in larger aircraft and that the ama was going to deny claims on the spektrum unless it was park flier related.... that anything else wouldn't be covered. Sounds like the clubs will be the police...

Capt Jim

My Feedback: (168)

OK guys...here's the story...right from the AMA. Unable to get any in-depth, factual and definitive information through my club, or online, I decided that I would just have to make a call to the AMA. In a very informative chat with the AMA technical director, I learned the following.
The AMA enthusiastically supports the use of the 2.4 Ghz Spektrum radio system, when it is used as directed by the manufacturer.
That directive is..."park flyers" only.
The AMA does not disallow insurance coverage in any application, however they are keenly aware that should an unfortunate incident occur, and go into litigation, the lawyers for the insurance company will most assuredly look at the vehicle...and if it is not something that realistically falls into the general category of "park flyer"...the lawyers will use that as evidence of an improper application of the radio system. There is where the insurance company finds an escape from financial responsibility.
Although the typical park flyer is a small electric plane, it is assumed that other power sources, such as a small (perhaps .049 approx) glow powered plane, may also fit within the park flyer guidelines.
There is no hard and fast specification to define a park flyer, but it is assumed to be a lightweight, slow flying plane, of approximately 30 inches or less wingspan.
The AMA understands that the Spektrum system may handle the flight requirements of larger glow or even gas powered craft, but they recognize also that the manufacturer is marketing this system for “Park Flyers� only…. and the AMA position is that there has to be a very valid justification for the manufacturer avoiding what is probably the largest segment of the market.
Power output is lower than what the FCC allows…. there must be a reason for that too…. and the thoughts are that perhaps higher power systems may become available in the future and they may offer increased reliable range.
There seems to be no doubt that the big radio manufacturers are working on this, and the hopes are that they will hit the market with a viable product just as soon as they can.
For now, it would appear prudent to follow the manufacturers guidelines and hope for system improvements in the near future.

iflyj3

My Feedback: (7)

A wing span limitation would seem the simplest and not the motive power. If the wing span was limited to perhaps 40 to 50 inches it would work because with the smaller wing span the closer you must keep it.

When giant planes came along I thought, Ah Ha I will be able to see them better. What I found is I fly the airplane out until they all appear to be the same size.

That is why a span limitation would be better than the type of power or a flakey definition of "Park Flyer".

BillS

The lawyers will argue that it was not being flown in a park.

Bill

exeter_acres

My Feedback: (2)

What if I live near a REALLLLLLLLLLYYY big park?

Like Yellowstone?


I don't, but if I flew my 30% airplane there....wouldn't it be a park flyer?

Skaluf

The statement that AMA has said that insurance will only apply when using the Spektrum system with electrics is false. AMA has not made this statement.

Horizon Hobby has limited the use of this new system to smaller, park-flyer type aircraft due to the current systems range limitations. These limitations make the system unsuitable for use in larger aircraft that could be flown farther away and possibly fly out of range. Horizon has stated the range on this system under less than optimum conditions is at worse around 1500', at best around 3000' under ideal conditions.

Again, AMA is not limiting any coverage for users using the Spektrum system. For those of you considering using it with larger aircraft simply consider this. If you do have an accident and litigation ensues; do you think a sharp attorney might pick up on the fact that the manufacturer has indicated this system should only be used with aircraft flown relatively close to the transmitter? I'll leave it to you to draw your own conclusions here. I simply suggest you follow the manufactures recommendations.

Please do not reply to this post expecting me to respond to it. I seldom post to forums. If you have a question you are welcome to e-mail me privately and I'll be happy to answer your question.

Regards,

Steve Kaluf
AMA Technical Director

Skaluf

Actually 2.4 GHz spread spectrum systems are authorized up to 1 watt of power. It is true that the current system only puts out 100 mw of power.

Our 72 MHz system are authorized up to 750 mw, however most put out about 400 mw.

Steve Kaluf
AMA Technical Director

MajorTomski

Nice can of worms guys.

Looks like someone has to legally define park flyers.

Maybe we should all rename our AMA fields a Such and such flying PARK. That way every thing flown there is a park flyer because it's being flown in a park.

The first post: Electric airplanes only. Does that include the 2 meter FAI pattern planes that have become the rage at that semi professional level of competition?

AMA insurance is secondary. What does your homeowners policy say? Do they even care about the minutia of a name on a radio?

MajorTomski

Thanks for the clarification Steve, We were typing at the same time, that's why my post may conflict with yours

T

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

I too wish to thank you Mr. Kaluf for braving this forum to clear up some misconceptions Regarding this new technology. Your posts will go a long ways in preventing possibly ill informed and rampant rumors.

John

Geistware

My Feedback: (16)

Steve,
Thanks for chiming in here and validating what I was saying.
It would be nice if higher powered systems were available.
Don't be a stranger.
Many times we need facts to offset urban myths and legends.

Jean13704

Things to consider.

Safety issues re whether to fly a larger plane on 72 or 2400 band are context specific IMHO.

1. Fact: The risk of shootdowns between RC planes is greater on 72. Planes crashing due to this factor may be anywhere, near the flightine or in the overfly area. Thus for more crowded flying areas (or those with known problems on 72), using a DX6 may will be safer then using a 72-band tx.

2. Fact: The risk of flying out of range is clearly greater with the DX6. But the safety issue here is also dependent on the local situation. If the overfly area is near property or people, this is an important issue. However, it it is not, then I fail to see how this is much of a risk to anyone other than the owner of the plane. Remember, the failsafe of the DX6 system will cut power when radio contact is loss. Also, if the temporaryly out-of-control plane were to turn back toward where people are (the flightline), control would be reestabilished. Thus, the range isssue would seem to releate primarily to the possibility of crashing in the overfly area - and the safety issue would depend on the extend of people and property nearby.

3. By considering the risks associated with both of these factors in the context of local conditions, it would appear that in some cases, flying a 40-size plane with the DX6 might will involve LESS risk than using a 72 tx. But in other places, just the opposiite would be true.

My point is: If the safety of others is the criterion, the better choice of radio system depends every bit as much on local flying field conditions as it does on the characterics of the two radio systems, despite what the manufacturer says.

Jean13704

Anyone wanting some REAL information on the limitations of the DX6 system should check out this thread on RC Groups.


http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=464825

skip40

My Feedback: (5)

Hi, does anyone know of this Spektrum DX6 being used for Boats? I would think it has plenty of range for this use, but I haven`t see even one article about this. I do realize the RX would have to mounted as high as possible above the deck. Thank you for you help, Skip

TLH101

My Feedback: (90)

For bosts and cars:
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByC...rodID=SPM2030F