dogg5306

Talking about Futaba radios (MZ12 or MZ14) if I do select an H version for heli fying what does mode 1 or mode 2 mean? (I do have to select one of them when ordering the radio)...

krayzc-RCU

My Feedback: (31)

throttle on a different stick is one thing do a google search to get the rest

gadix

My Feedback: (2)

bonjour

ce' tre' importance le differance

mode1 ce le commander avec le RUDD+TH a la droite e' ELEV+ALIE a la gosh
mode2 ELEV+TH a la droite e ALIE+TH a la gosh

mode1 avec mode2 ce normal toute la europe
mode2 ce asia avec japon

mode1 ce le americ

pardon pur moi petit franciase


mode1: RUDD+TH ON THE LEFT WHILE ELEV+ALIE ON THE RIGHT COMMON IN EUROPE AND USA,S.AMERICA
mode2: ELEV+RUDD ON THE LEFT WHILE TH+ALIE ON THE RIGHT ALL OVER ASIA AND JAPAN.

MERCI,

gadix

My Feedback: (2)

END OF FRENCH LESSON no1.....

about heli type to air type

the flap,hov & mix SW's are on different sides as well
but this is only matter at start
after you practice theres no different-> for the SW's!!!

the sticks is a totaly different story

i do fly both mode's 1&2 [8D][8D]
but most of my friends cannot[&:][&:]

A+

gadi

TommyWatson

My Feedback: (1)

Wrong!!!.

Mode 2 has throttle/rudder on the left stick and aileron/elevator on the right stick.
Mode 1 has elevator/rudder on the left stick and aileron/throttle on the right stick.

Regards

dogg5306

Here's the info found on the Futaba website...

Ed_Moorman

My Feedback: (1)

Mode 3 is a left-handed mode 2. The 2 primary sticks are reversed. Many southpaws, like myself, use it, rather than learning to fly right handed.

Volfy

My Feedback: (23)

Another leftie Mode 3 flyer here. Never tire of chiming in, because there are just so few of us.

I can fly Mode 2 if my life depended on it and I really really focus & concentrate.

carrellh

I also use Mode 3.

gadix

My Feedback: (2)

ahhhhhhhhhhh
now i'm confused[:@]

carrellh

Copied from above.

-------------- Left stick-------------Right stick
Mode 1------elevator rudder------throttle aileron
Mode 2------throttle rudder-------elevator aileron
Mode 3------elevator aileron------throttle rudder
Mode 4------throttle aileron-------elevator rudder

<< edited for spacing, still not perfect >>

One mode is not better or worse than another.
Modes 1 and 2 are dominant.
Location seems to determine whether Mode 1 or 2 is the 'norm.'
Modes 3 & 4 are left handed versions.

mervmatthews

Quote: One mode is not better or worse than another.
At the risk of inflaming the controversy once again, I disagree - I think mode 1 is best.
I guess it's what one gets used to, having started and continued with one mode or the other. However, at our club at least 25 members fly mode 1 (throttle/aileron on right stick) while only ONE member flys mode 2. If you are a mode 2 enthusiast and you are not convinced just try this test:
With your model on the ground and you standing behind it, assume you are on final approach with a little up elevator held to keep the approach speed down, then try moving the ailerons quickly to pick up a dropped wing. I defy you to move the ailerons without altering the elevator position. Just watch your elevator closely and you will see it move - guarantee it! With the primary controls on separate sticks this test is easily achieved because your left thumb can 'lock' the elevator in the desired position while making an aileron correction with the right thumb. This translates in flight to a smooth steady descent instead of a roller coaster type approach.
The problem lies with the way the centering springs cause the sticks to want to 'groove' along the two axes, and it is difficult to get a smooth transition to an intermediate position between them. Try stirring the stick around in a circular motion and you will see what I mean. Your circle will be anything but a circle.Those who use a neck strap and cradle for their Tx do much better with the single stick arrangement for the primary controls because they can grip the stick with thumb and two fingers and achieve more precise control.
OK, that's set the cat among the pigeons. Let's hear from someone else.
Kiwi Merv

olivier

Hi,


An image says more...found on the website of JR-UK.
Funny someone wanting to buy a 2000-USDollar transmitter is asking this question...
And to mervmatthews : dont want to argue...but I think you're right (and try to translate the link here below for even some more arguments).
And for "dogg5306" : read this French discussion here, but ignore the last reaction (tooo stupid) :
http://www.aeromodelisme.be/forum/viewtopic.php?t=543



Olivier

sigrun

OK I'll bite.

I was going to say GO AWAY, but instead I'll just say that agreeing with your own opinion is the only part you got right. The rest is a self-rationalising nonsense.

The reason you and the rest of the antipodean monkeys who fly mode 1 do so is for no other reason than that's how you were taught because whoever taught you flew mode 1 because that's how he was taught. There's no logic in it other than that. And mode 1 "superiority" is just the self-aggrandising ego at work perpetuating the same irrational nonsense in an act the most basic to man's need after the basics of food and shelter, self-perpetuation and self-preservation. The reality is that the majority of RC flyers in the world including myself fly mode 2 and manage just fine.

In fact mode 1 is just a plain stupid uncoordinated 'choice'.....if it were a cogent choice which for most it isn't. It's just the first tool you picked up and learned to use rather than the sharpest, and you know that a truth if only admitted to yourself. It's just natural to have the two primary axes on the one stick, not back to front like you mode 1 monkeys

You do of course realise how mode 1 came to be in common use in the antipodes don't you? Back in the dim old days of yore before models had ailerons, the rudder was the primary control used to turn the aircraft, ineffecient though relying on the yaw induced secondary effect of rudder is and reliant upon design. So the rudder control was placed on the same pole as the elevator to allow co-ordinated turns using the single stick....just like mode 2 does now, but with ailerons.....like modern models should and real aircraft do.

As for the your can't move the ailerons without PIOing the elevator fantasy. H E L L O. Anyone home up there? What a load of utter C R A P. Some of us are naturally co-ordinated, which is I guess why we chose to learn and fly mode 2. And even if we weren't, there's a 'magic' feature any radio not dating from another century has called e x p o .

Of course, we've all heard all the mode 1 superiority and aileron cross rudder control in vertical lines nonsense, which since refuted I see has resurfaced revised as your latest can't operate ailerons without inducing PIO drivel which of course has no more credulity than it's predecessor. Although countering it with something which isn't an irrelevance, God forbid I don't know how anyone flying mode 1 can smoothly use the ailerons or with any coordination with their stick stuck fully forward at the full throttle position - unless they have hands like a gorilla? Probably explains why most mode 1 flyers fit engines twice the size needed for the model so they can fly at half throttle and not be uncomfortable with finger cramp.

It's enlightening being an non mode 1 brainwashed observer in a predominently mode 1 country which is mode 1 flyer orientated for the most illogical, unjustifiable and worthless of reasons, ie; ignorance and through sheer accident....like birth. At least 50% of the members of any club I've been in don't even realise there is another mode says it all. Mind you, they're the same 50% who crash a lot as well. Of every mode 1 flyer I know, and I know a lot, if answering honestly 95% of them will tell you that they didn't choose mode 1. They just did what they were told, learnt with what they were given or bought.

So now we're in agreement and best friends, can I presume there's no need for platitudinal pretence here? [sm=lol.gif]

Any thinking rational being realises mode 1 is an anacronistic mode which will eventually disappear. Firmware mode selectable TX and the forces of a global economy in the marketplace will eventually deem it so as the generationally entrenched attitudes of mode 1 obstinacy dissappear with the death and disappearance of its perpetuators. The only thing assisting monkey mode to artificially retain the position it does in Australia and Moooo Zeeland is the same tired old unthinking predjudices trotted out to prop up and reinforce the false beliefs hiding a deep rooted fear of "if he learns mode 2 I won't be able to test fly his planes" or "reinforce my own prejudices" with the subsequent loss of authority and status that entails all of which depends and preys upon noob ignorance, which unquestioningly just wanting to fit into and become accepted in this strange new world, soaks up like a sponge whatever he is told without seletcive filtering = ON. Denying and disparaging comments like "no-one flies/we don't teach funny mode here" whilst laughing at their own unfunny 'joke' (although they do have the facility) don't encourage dissent or encourage perpetuation of the inquiry. Hobby shops don't assist either by just taking the path of least resistance and minimum stockholding (tied up credit or capital), although forrtunately more and more TXs even at an entry level are end user transposable...if they're made aware, encouraged and shown how. It's just a shame most come default out fo the box configured mode 1 in this country.

However myself and the other the enlightened ones continue to spread the word amongst the natives and are making significant inroads. 10 years ago at my primary club, we'd have been lucky to have had more than 1 or 2 mode 1 flyers amongst nearly 170. And they were only begrudgingly accepted drift-ins from other countries. Flying mode 2 was aggressively and proactively discouraged. Today in that same club from a membership of over 200, we have increased that to around 15%, and with my fellow instructors of whom 40% fly and prefer mode 2, we will tirelessly work to influence and alter that proportion until it is reversed. "Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man".

My personal target is to increase that percentile by another 3-5% this year alone. It's so satisfying having a worthwhile goal and seeing it realised isn't it? [sm=kiss.gif]

Whilst I continue doing my utmost to educate and persuade anyone with an IQ larger than their numerical shoe size of the indisputable benefits of learning and flying mode 2, fortunately most full size pilots seeking to learn RC and more intelligent inquirers once offered awareness and the alternative are insistant upon it. Little by little through our dominent position and influence in instructing, we'll remove those obsolete attitudes until the day mode 1 flyers have become a novelty akin to some quaint antiquity.

Now here's the clincher. Whilst I prefer mode 2 and would advocate it as preferable mode to learn and fly for reasons so apparent they don't really require stating to any rational thinking individual, the key to being a good RC (or fullsize) pilot has nothing to do with which mode you fly, but with the degree of applied intelligence and some basic co-ordination of the pupil/pilot IFF accompanied by an attitude encompassing perseverence, determination, and a willingness to continually learn and reinforce through diligent practise, practise, practise with purposed application. In the same vein, stupid people who refuse to progress beyond somehow managing to get the model in the air thereafter believing they are competent with nothing more to learn and should be cleared solo without consistantly being able to fly a circuit, understand the necessity and prudence in exercising discipline at times in the flight envelope, nor understanding the importance of executing a controlled approach and landing at will obstinately refusing to conduct that missed approach when necessary - will perpetually crash models - in the interim temporarily barreling around the sky allowing their eyes to trail wherever the model leads them - whichever mode they fly.

In summary, good flyers will be good flyers regardless of the mode they fly, and Confucious was accurate when he said "mode 2 rulez - mode 1 suX".

Ed_Moorman

My Feedback: (1)

As I mentioned above, I am left handed and fly mode 3, a reversed mode 2, but from the point of doing precision aerobatics, there is a lot to be said for mode 1 or 4. The physical problem is our spring centered sticks as opposed to a non-centering stick (other than air or hydraulic loading) in a full scale. Splitting the aileron and elevator allows you to make pitch changes for correction in maneuvers without the changing feel of the roll.

What would really be better from a "feel" standpoint, in my opinion, would be pressure sensing sticks rather than position sensing. With these, when you make an elevator correction in a roll, for example, you would not have to increase the pressure in the roll direction.

Now that I know what I do, if I was starting over, I'd probably learn mode 1 or 4.

mervmatthews

Phew!!! I had expected that my tongue-in-cheek opener that 'mode 1 is best' would bring a quick response, but I was quite unprepared for the tirade spewing from sigrun's keyboard. I thought these forums were intended for intelligent discussion on R/C matters, not for slagging off other members' opinions. Clearly, sigrun is an angry young man with an attitude, and he could benefit from taking an anger management course. It's not worth responding to such venom.
Ed Moorman on the other hand gave a thoughtful response. He flys mode 2, but acknowledges in hindsight he might have done better on mode 1. He mentions a non-centering stick. I put up about 60 hours in a Piper C90 Cub - it of course has a non-centering stick - before taking up digital propo R/C models in 1967, but still decided that seat-of-the-pants flying was different from R/C control, and chose mode 1. I made it clear in my contribution that it is just what one has become used to and repeated practice with either mode will result in a competent flier.
Kiwi Merv
P.S. Ah! now I have just seen it - he's a blimmin' Australian! That explains it all.

fiery

My Feedback: (2)

Wow ... like "who cares" anyway ... fly and let fly I say!

Someone did a doctor's thesis on this issue years ago and determined we are all flying a less than optimal mode, from a neurolinguistics POV.

IE throttle action should be reversed etc. Can't remember the rest but it was well researched and argued.

FWIW (not a lot) I fly light aircraft. Classic stick control configuration.

I fly R/C models too. Mode 1 by choice.

I have seen many newcomers to R/C make little progress trying mode 2, including full size pilots. Switch to mode 1, it starts to come together.

Why, I have no idea, maybe we are just bipedal simians in the Great South Land In the US and most of the rest of the world, mode 2 is dominant.

In the club I fly with only 1 member uses mode 2. He instructs mode 1 (he can fly both and is an ex pattern state rep). Most clubs around my region have no mode 2 flyers. That's not to say mode 2 is an inferior control option in any way.

"Fly and let fly" boys and girls. Let's all have a group hug.

Modes are like your colour. Irrelevant. It's airmanship and attitude that counts. No matter what mode you fly.

fiery

mervmatthews

Anyone remember the Orbit black boxes and the MicroAvionics green boxes? The first ones came out in Mode 1, and I now remember why. They superseded the 'reed' sets which featured a bunch of toggle switches on the front of the transmitter. Depending on which way you moved the toggle the servo moved in one direction or the other to its limit. Upon releasing the toggle the servo returned to its neutral position. Crude eh? Some pilots mastered the technique of rapidly tapping the toggles so that a proportional movement of a sort were achieved. Now here's the point - the elevator switch was positioned on the left in an up/down alignment, while the aileron switch was on the right in a side-to-side alignment. So - left hand - up and down, right hand - side to side. Pilots could convert easily from reeds to propo Mode 1.
Kiwi Merv

Forgues Research

My Feedback: (7)

For what its worth, I flew Mode 2 when I started, then I went to Single stick when it was fashionable, then went back to Mode 2, then went to Mode 1 and my coordinated aerobatic really improved, but in the end I went back to mode 2 because I was so involved in training others to learn to fly. Now I wish I would have stayed with Mode 1.

Soooooo for me, mode 1 is better after trying all these even though I am presently on mode 2.

Roger

XJet

I fly mode 1 -- having come from the world of reeds and early 2-channel proportional sets that had two single-axis sticks.

I'm not partisan -- I can see the benefits to flying mode 2, especially for things like helicopters.

I take mervmatthews point about the difficulty in moving a stick in one axis without unintentional input into the other -- but Merv, don't you use your throttle and rudder when landing too? Remember: throttle controls altitude, elevators control speed and if you're landing in a cross-wind you really need to be doing a little bit of a side-slip so you can maintain a straight heading and touch down with only *forward* speed and no sideways movement :-)

Flying 3D with mode 1, I often find that I'm stirring my left thumb a lot more than my right. In a hover, rudder and elevator are your primary controls. Despite the apparent interaction between movement in each axis, I notice that my reactions have already compensated for this so that I don't actually seem to get any such coupling when I'm flying -- I'm sure that the mode 2 guys are the same with their elevator/ailerons.

The strange thing is that I always thought that the really old single-stick, three-axis transmitters would have been just perfect. These had aileron with left-right stick movement, elevator with forward/backward movement and rudder through a rotating knob on the top. Those transmitters were kind of cradled in your left hand, leaving your left index finger free to operate a throttle slider. Sounds perfect to me but Kraft were the last company I saw making them and that was well over 20 years ago.

Ultimately the bottom line is that it's 99% pilot skill and 1% stick-layout. Humans are very adaptable creatures that can develop amazingly complex desterity skills. Burn enough fuel and you can fly any mode.

I also realise that it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks -- so I'll just stick with mode 1, if for no reason other than it's what I've been flying for about 45 years now.

mervmatthews

Thanks Xjet - some useful comments there. Coincidentally, in writing my last post, I began to describe those large single stick jobs which one cradled in the left arm, and I intended to comment that that system seemed a better proposition for those intent on flying 'single stick'. In the end I deleted it all and kept my post brief. I agree, and I said so earlier, that repeated practice with either mode will result in a competent flier, regardless of stick arrangements.
I'm glad someone else recognises that in a landing approach "throttle controls altitude and elevator controls speed". As one of the instructors at our local club I try to drum this into my student pilots. If the model is seen to be sinking on approach the worst thing you can do is apply more elevator. Just a few notches of throttle will check the rate of descent and flying speed will be maintained. I also encourage the use of the three-position landing switch, which many transmitters have, with two levels of up elevator trim programmed in for landing. I apply the first level when downwind at the same time as reducing throttle, then the second level after levelling out on final. This gives a consistent (slower) approach speed and allows one to concentrate on maintaining a steady descent to the threshhold, followed by a nice flare to the runway. Very satisfying!
Incidentally, I bought my first single channel R/C outfit in 1954 and built a Vic Smeed 'Electra' for it. It looked like a double-size 'Tomboy'.

piero

My Feedback: (3)

Hello, my name is Piero (Per-Oluf Olsen) and if possible I would like to ask you question. I am a modeller myself and as a family we are now moving to Brussels.

We would like to continue our hobby and need to find a flying field/club close to Brussels.

Do you know where I can search, or do you personally know the places.

If you could help me, I would really appreciate it.

Thanks,

Piero

eskiserkan

Hello . Is it possible to convert a Mode 1 radio to Mode 2 ? I need an application like this , really .

Forgues Research

My Feedback: (7)

Yes it is in most cases if its a computer radio. then just remove the spring from the left stick and install it in the right stick.

Roger

dogg5306

Check my PM!