RC4toyz

I see switches labelled as "heavy duty" but never any information to compare them agains the alleged "light-duty" switches.

I am flying bigger and bigger planes (1/4 and 1/3) and want to ensure that the underlying wiring getting a sufficient upgrade.

Can anyone shed some light on the differences betwee LD and HD? Name any good HD switch brands? Etc.

Thansk

JohnW

My Feedback: (6)

Only "HD" switches I have first hand experience with are JR. They use the heavier gauge wire similar to their gold series extensions. Never had any problems yet.

Vince

My Feedback: (1)

A really good quality heavy duty switch will be of the wiper design. Picture a knife switch, that is the principle behind a wiper switch, as opposed to a spot contact switch. The wiper switch is a self cleaning switch and usually will carry much more current. To judge a switch just by the size of the wire hooked to it is not a very good gage.

Vince

RC4toyz

Okay how do I know what a "wiper" looks like? Most switches are sealed...I dunno what happens on the inside.

sfaust

My Feedback: (11)

I have to agree. We don't have enough info on the switches to really evaluate which is better than another. I also think a wiper design is best, and one that has more than one contact point should one fail. Problem is, we don't know which switches are spot, which are wiper, and which have redundant contact points.

I have been using the JR heavy duty switches all the way up to 40% aircraft, and batteries to 3000mah. I haven't had one fail even after a couple seasons use, but that doesn't mean I never will either. I usually replace the switch and batteries every two years, since they are the most prone to failures compared to the other equipment we use.

Forgues Research

My Feedback: (7)

Speaking of switches, what about these switches that are not mechanical, and should they fail, the only way to shut it down is to unplug the battery.
http://www.fromeco.com/products.htm

RC4toyz

If the switch fails "closed" then life would be good and it would be obvious when it failed as you could not turn off your plane. I read thru the site but it did not state or imply "how" it failed. Good questoin to ask though.

RC4toyz

" I have been using the JR heavy duty switches all the way up to 40% aircraft, and batteries to 3000mah. "

Stephen, how do/did you know that this switch was strong enough to support the loads you are subjecting it to? This is what I am driving at...how do we know that "heavy duty" actually constitutes something of value?

sfaust

My Feedback: (11)

Unfortunately we don't. However, we have the feedback from those bold enough to venture into uncharted waters before us. I only put some trust in the JR heavy duty switches because there were a number of people out there flying their 40% airplanes with them installed, and they were not having any difficulties attributed to the switch. I just duplicated what they had, and crossed my fingers. So far so good after hundreds of flights and multiple seasons.

Conversely, I suppose I could also say that even the standard Futaba switches are fine. I know of quite a few out there flying with these standard switches, and they aren't having any problems either. Come to think of it, the 40% Giles I had did in fact use the Futaba standard switch with the Du-Bro charge jack setup. It had well over 200 some odd flights on it before it met its demise (not electrical), and the switches were never an issue.

Matter of fact (sound of me running down to the basement....grabbing the switch from the old Giles and a new JR switch, the digital SLR and macro lens, a few tools...sound of me coming back upstairs), it seems that we can do at least a visual examination and make some informed assumptions.

Refer to the following photos;
www.giantscalerc.com/technical-switches.htm

It appears that the Futaba normal switches are a sort of wiper type. It uses two contacts, and the wires are connected to each contact. There is some redundancy which increases its reliability somewhat. The case of the standard Futaba is a snap together, and was easy to get apart.

The JR heavy duty switch is built more rugged for heavier duty usage. The switch it self is larger then than the standard Futaba, and the case was a bear to disassemble. The switch housing is actually soldered to the board, so its not a snap together item and can find itself unsnapped. In fact, I could not disassemble the switch housing without completely destroying the board and soldered connections for the housing. The connections used multiple contacts just as in the Futaba standard switch, but they were somewhat larger. The on and off positions had a definite snap, as provided by the two holes seen in the side of the casing. I doubt that it would be able to vibrate itself from on to off on it own. The Futaba had a good snap action also, but not as positive as the JR switch.

I think the JR switch is definitely more robust and heavy duty. While I think there is an advantage to the JR switch in a high vibration environment, I don't think there is that much difference between them as far as current carrying capability. I could be wrong, but from the surface it doesn't appear to be so. The JR switch internal contacts only appear to be very slightly larger. Maybe that is enough to carry a fair bit more current, I really don't know.

My conclusions. I would go with the JR switch because of its better overall construction. The wiring appears to be less prone to chaffing and a short than the Futaba. The Futaba has the black wire running right over the positives when the switch is encased, with only the clear insulator protecting it. Chaffing could wear away the insulator and cause a complete short. The JR leads are all separated, and are further secured with a soft glue to the board itself for strain relief. There are no wires crossing that could chafe and cause a short.

Based on the condition of the Futaba switch that was in the Giles for two seasons and a couple hundred flights, I would change the Futaba switches every two seasons or so. On the JR, I would feel comfortable leaving them in for double that period. However, this is based on their construction, and not from a current carrying capacity, which I didn't measure.

A few tools, 20 minutes, and we are all just a bit more educated on what's inside those switches. Now if someone would be so kind as to run some current tests through them, we would be very well informed. Any volunteers?

This was a worthy exercise for me.

RC4toyz

You're a fine fine feloow for tearing apart two switches for the sake of our feable curiousity.

Now to find someone to juice them up and see what they can handle.....

sfaust

My Feedback: (11)

In my quest for better reliability of my airplanes, I like to know the answers to these kinds of questions. This is one that I had for a while, but hadn't really thought about it enough. Figured now was as good a time as any, especially since the airplanes are down for winter maintenance and that means switch swapping time anyway.

So, I didn't do it just for you, but does that mean I am no longer a fine fellow

If I find a way, I'll try to juice one up if no one else with the proper equipment comes forth.

Steve Campbell2

I'll echo my thanks for that comparison.

I wonder how the new Futaba "HD switch for digital servos" will stack up?

I've used those JR composite (one unit, switch and charge receptacle) switches for years with absolutely no drama. Now that I've gone back to Futaba, I'm leery of their bread'n'butter switch; the new one mentioned above is much more substantial.

Steve

RC4toyz

Anyone know about the "Miracle Switch" sold by Maxx Products?????

This one states that it WILL fail CLOSED when/if it fails.

sfaust

My Feedback: (11)

I've used the JR charge jacks with my Futaba equipment. You just need to fudge the connector a bit to do that, but its very quick and easy. I went to the JR connectors way back when I was flying Futaba because it fit both JR and Futaba, while Futaba only fit Futaba. When someone wanted to borrow my ESV meter or charger, there was always a fit issue. With the JR style connector, all that went away.

If I get my hands on the new Futaba switch, I'll tear that guy open as well. Destructive testing is so much fun

Now, where is that dynamite! I need to test my airframe

Forgues Research

My Feedback: (7)

Yes, its the same principle as the one I mentioned earlier
by Frameco.

http://www.fromeco.com/products.htm

SMALLFLY-

My Feedback: (19)

Radical RC sells a clone of the HD JR switch (I have heard it is the same switch) for 12 bucks. I have them in almost all my planes, they have an integrated charge jack and HD wire. No need to look any further than that IMO

LSP972

My Feedback: (13)

I can't get to the Fromeco tech spec pages.

This switch is intriguing; I'd like to know more about it.

Anybody using one?

Steve

sfaust

My Feedback: (11)

I had the same luck trying to get to their tech page. Evidently, its offline. I know of one person that used that switch, however, I hadn't followed his usage with it to see how it turned out, or if he had any problems with it. Its a person that I run into occasionally at meets, but haven't seen him in a while.

If he hasn't left the hobby, and I run into him again this season, I'll try to follow up with his experience with it. It appears to be a great idea, and probably works fine if designed and implemented correctly. The only real issue to be aware of if the current draw that is required to keep the switch closed, and knowing how long it would take to drain your battery if left in the off position. Easy enough to figure out, add the normal self discharge rate to it. Then you can just disconnect the batteries if it plane will sit idle for that time or longer. Or, just disconnect the battery anytime it will sit for longer than a few days, or a week or so.

Forgues Research

My Feedback: (7)

I have one of these switches, It works as it says it will. I haven't installed it yet, but have bench tested it. As for current capacity, I beleive its below 10 amp. But like any other switch, the size of the wire from the battery, to the switch and on to the servos/receiver/s is quite small.
Normally you will find 22 gauge wire split down to many 22 gauge wire for the individual servos. So the bottleneck is the this particular wire.
Some heavy duty switches use 20gauge wire which is an improvement.

I have a power divider with 16 gauge wire from the battery, and to the switch (heavy duty toggle switch) and then you plug your the power lead of the servos in this power divider to split the load.
With this power divider, you can connect around 15 power leads for the servos. No I don't sell these. I buy them.

RC4toyz

Roger, can you explain this "power divider" a little better? What is it? I am having a hard time visualizing what you describe. Thanks

Forgues Research

My Feedback: (7)

Have a look here:
http://www.balsapr.com/catalog/radio...ductId=S177229

I modify it to have equal power on every plug.

sfaust

My Feedback: (11)

Roger,

Without the benefit of the instructions that came with the unit, its somewhat easy to misinterpret the diagram shown on their web site. Can you help decipher it for us?

It appears that on the bottom of the unit, you can attach 4 receiver channels to it. I assume it would be the primary channels (ailerons, elevator, rudder, throttle), but could actually be anything. There appears to be two connectors for a 4.8v receiver battery. I assume since it separates the servo and receiver batteries, its just a pass through connector that will send the power to the receiver through the pos/neg leads? I also assume that since there are two different connectors for these battery connections, you would just use one or the other. Then there are 4 connectors for the actual servos.

On the bottom, there is the switch, and a connector for a 6v servo battery, and 4 servos. Then there is a connector for what is shown as an O.B.I. . It appears that it might be a volt meter of some sort Can't really tell, and I gave up trying to find the part number after scrolling through their catalog for a while. There is also one on the top of the unit.

It seems then to allow the control of 4 channels by up to 8 servos. When you mention 15 servos, are you assuming that one can use Y connectors to increase the servo capacity form 8 to 15?
Or have I mis-read the diagram?

It seems like a cool unit. I ordered one so that I can tear it apart and see what's inside. I like the higher gauge wire for the 6v battery, but 4 channels is kind of limiting. One would still need to use the receiver bus for power distribution for any other servos in use such as smoke, choke servos, retracts, or if they are using multiple channels for the primary control surfaces such as elevator, rudder, or ailerons, or even if they wanted to use flaps, flapperons, etc.

If they doubled the capacity, it could kick some but with 8 channels.

Forgues Research

My Feedback: (7)

Steve, when I recieve this unit and I have another 3 on order, I take it apart and modify it so that the servo plugs are used only for power as I said before and don't want to get into it again, I power all the servos on these and there are plenty of plugs for all the servos.
To modify it, I solder a heavy gauge one piece copper to join the two decks and eleminate some of the stuff on it.

sfaust

My Feedback: (11)

I understand that Roger, and am not questioning that at all. I am just trying to understand how this puppy works.

You mentioned 15 servos can be connected, yet I only see 8 connectors, and 4 channels. Am I reading it wrong? Or when you modify it, are you doing so in such a way that it can then use 15 servos? Or are you just saying that with Y connectors and such, it is designed to handle 15 servos. You also say you modify it to have equal power on each leg. I am not sure why you mean by this?

Unfortunately, their diagram of the product is sketchy, and they don't offer any more detailed information on the web site. I thought that since you stated you are using one, and have modified it, you could give us a better understand.

I can see some interesting applications if used in a dual receiver setup, which is my I have a couple on order myself. I'd like to see if there are any interesting way to use it, even if not in the same way they designed or intended it to be used.

I've never seen it before, and just want to understand it. I am not by any means trying to discuss the benefits or drawbacks of splitting power from the receiver. That has been discussed to length in another thread. Past issues are past issues as far as I am concerned.

Forgues Research

My Feedback: (7)

Steve,
I double checked and it is 14 servos I can connect.
When you get the unit and apply 6 volts, you will see what I mean.
As I said, I connect the two PCB's (upper and lower) together with with a 14 gauge single strand copper wire (about 1/2" long)
I also have to disconnect some diodes which are initially there.
Now I have a true power divider. Plug the battery in and when the switch is on, all 14 recepticles have the 6 volts availlable.

Since I don't know what your background in electricity or electronic, I sometimes don't explain fully because it might offend someone that knows more then I think or simply doesn't know enough to follow.

My background is 30 years as an Industrial Electrician for General Motors specializing in Robotics. That don't make me an expert, but when I tell you about bus systems, I have had a lot of training and when I talk about Fiber Optic extensions I know what I'm talking about.

So two receivers or three for that matter is not a problem for me as long as the servos are not directly connected to it, and yes the servos have to be opticcaly isolated for a true safe system for me, don't forget, I said for me and me alone, I don't speak for others.