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Futaba 9ZAP question? (new pics after first flight added)

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Futaba 9ZAP question? (new pics after first flight added)

Old 12-18-2002, 07:25 PM
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carrid02
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Default Futaba 9ZAP question? (new pics after first flight added)

I'm using the futaba 9Z for one of my big airplanes and I was wondering how to set up the rudder on separate channals? Ailerons have a program that you can activate for 2 and elevators do too.... but I can't find a program (icon) for 2 rudders in two channals?

1) Aileron 1
2) Elevator 1
3) Throttle
4) Rudder 1
5) Elevator 2
6)
7) Aileron 2
8)
9)

I think this is the setup that I've got so far. (I don't have it in front of me) Keep in mind that I'm running two battery/switches.... where do I plug the other Rudder servo in and what program do I use on the transmitter to set it up? Any info will help!!!

Thanks,
Craig Rideout
Old 12-20-2002, 06:26 AM
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patternjockey
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Default Futaba 9ZAP question? (new pics after first flight added)

Hi Craig

First off I do not have a 9Z yet but most dual rudder planes (with two servos) can be set up with a simple c-mix. Activate a C-mix and assign the master as "Rud1" or "rud" and then assign the slave (other rudder servo) as "AUX2". Activate it so it's on all the time at 100%. Make sure your extra rudder servo is plugged into the "Aux2" slot. By making expo & dual rate adjustment to "Rud1" the other rudder "servo" should follow exactly.

I use "Aux2" as an example only..not sure what the zapper calls them.

Perhaps I have misunderstood and have oversimplified this.
Not sure.
Old 12-20-2002, 02:11 PM
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carrid02
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Default well???

That's exactly how I've got it set up right now, except now the servo that is plugged into the Aux1 slot can be moved by hitting the slid bar on the side of the transmitter. Can I deactivate that function?
Thanks,
Craig Rideout
Old 12-20-2002, 02:22 PM
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sfaust
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Default Futaba 9ZAP question? (new pics after first flight added)

Originally posted by patternjockey
Hi Craig

First off I do not have a 9Z yet but most dual rudder planes (with two servos) can be set up with a simple c-mix. Activate a C-mix and assign the master as "Rud1" or "rud" and then assign the slave (other rudder servo) as "AUX2". Activate it so it's on all the time at 100%. Make sure your extra rudder servo is plugged into the "Aux2" slot. By making expo & dual rate adjustment to "Rud1" the other rudder "servo" should follow exactly.

I use "Aux2" as an example only..not sure what the zapper calls them.

Perhaps I have misunderstood and have oversimplified this.
Not sure.
Basically you are right. A channel mix is all that is needed. And it can be any available channel except channel 9. Here are some additional notes;

When you are mixing the rudder servos with the P-Mix, use a multi-meter in line between the receiver and the servo. You will use that to check for binding, and when setting up the ATV's and neutral position. You will check each servo, and adjust the mixing at neutral and each end point to get the lowest current draw at those position.

Make VERY sure that you have the trim linked in the mix, so that when you adjust the rudder trim, each servo reacts to the trim adjustment. If not, when you trim your rudder, one servo will offset the neutral position, and the other won't. You will introduce binding into the setup, and cause a high current drain on your packs.

Make sure you are using the right type of mixing. Using the mix mode that will track the slave from the master, and ignore external influences that do not affect the master channel. There are mix modes that use the stick input only, the master without other linked mixes, or the master will all linked mixes, etc. I forget what Futaba calls them, so I wont guess in case I am wrong. I'll look it up later for you if someone else doesn't add that imput.

Once you think you have it setup. Leave the multimeter in-line, and run through all your switches, mixes, rates, trims, etc, and verify that none of these cause the tracking to change. I flew a nice 40% airplane for quite a while that had ganged rudder servos, and didn't notice that my trim changes introduced binding on the rudder setup. The previous owner either forgot, or didn't know, that he didn't have the trims linked. Luckily, I caught it during a routine maintenance check before it did any damage.
I'm sure the servos were very unhappy for a while there.
Old 12-20-2002, 02:34 PM
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Default Re: well???

Originally posted by carrid02
That's exactly how I've got it set up right now, except now the servo that is plugged into the Aux1 slot can be moved by hitting the slid bar on the side of the transmitter. Can I deactivate that function?
Thanks,
Craig Rideout
Yes, you can deactivate the slider, and should. I forget how on the 9ZWC, its been a while since I've flown mine. I think its in the FNC menu, and you would disable AUX1 or AU1. I'll check. But, make sure you do disable it. You would select NUL for the function you want to disable.

For the trim and mixing mode, in the second PMIX screen for that mix selected;

The TRIM should be ACTIVE. This insures that the trim changes will be reflected on the slave channel as well as the master channel.

The Master Mix Mode should be MIXED. Ie, if the master channel throws are changed via a dual rate or expo setting, the slave with track that as well.
Old 12-20-2002, 04:27 PM
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Default Futaba 9ZAP question? (new pics after first flight added)

Great info Mr. sfaust

My 9zas arrives any day now and this info will be saved for future reference.

Off topic...

I had a look at your photo gallery and was impressed by your Bobcat pictures. A good friend of mine is just getting ready to glass his wings on the same airframe. Nice kit.

Out of curiosity, what color scheme are you planing?

Thanks,
Old 12-20-2002, 04:38 PM
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Default Futaba 9ZAP question? (new pics after first flight added)

Wish I knew on the color scheme. I'll come up with something for it, and it should be nice. My company is going to be doing a video on painting RC airplanes with another Top Gun competitor, and part of the deal is to get my Bobcat painted in the process. I have seen his work, and it amazes me how nice his work is. I think I will be very proud of the paint on the Bobcat, and might even be able to take a little credit for it. I hope to learn a lot about paining, end up with a nicely painted airplane, and get some useful info out to people.

BTW, the top picture on the page is from BVM. Can't take credit for it. The rest are mine.
Old 12-20-2002, 06:00 PM
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Default thanks alot!!!

Thanks for all the input. I guess I had it set up right.... All I have to do now is disable the slider. (that is what I couldn't figure out) I'll let you know how it goes.

Are the sliders on the right and left of the transmitter known as "Aux1" and "Aux2"? Just wondering.

Thanks again,
Craig Rideout
Old 12-20-2002, 09:03 PM
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locoworks
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Default rudders

guessing you got an ARTF bronco? no matter. you don't have to bother with mixes on the ZAP. there is a screen you can get up that allows you to assign any channel to any control stick/knob/switch. on my bronco i had 3 channels assigned to the appropriate joystick axis, 2 rudders and the nose wheel. use subtrim to match the centre positions and atv to match the rudders. by having a low atv on the nose wheel it made ground handling great. full rudder with minor nose wheel movement. i actually had it set in heli mode so i could use pitch and throttle curves to balance the engines. i'm not sure if the normal trim switch affects all the channels though. have a play
Old 12-21-2002, 12:01 AM
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Default Re: thanks alot!!!

Originally posted by carrid02
Thanks for all the input. I guess I had it set up right.... All I have to do now is disable the slider. (that is what I couldn't figure out) I'll let you know how it goes.

Are the sliders on the right and left of the transmitter known as "Aux1" and "Aux2"? Just wondering.

Thanks again,
Craig Rideout
I think they are labels as LS and RS, for left slider, etc. Its been a while though.
Old 12-21-2002, 12:19 AM
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Default Re: rudders

Originally posted by locoworks
guessing you got an ARTF bronco? no matter. you don't have to bother with mixes on the ZAP. there is a screen you can get up that allows you to assign any channel to any control stick/knob/switch. on my bronco i had 3 channels assigned to the appropriate joystick axis, 2 rudders and the nose wheel. use subtrim to match the centre positions and atv to match the rudders. by having a low atv on the nose wheel it made ground handling great. full rudder with minor nose wheel movement. i actually had it set in heli mode so i could use pitch and throttle curves to balance the engines. i'm not sure if the normal trim switch affects all the channels though. have a play
No no no... (I think )

If I remember correctly, if you set the Aux 2 to function off the rudder stick, it will do that just fine. However, 100% stick deflection would be max ATV's on Aux 2. However, the Rudder could be at max ATV's if the stick is at 100%, but it could also be at say 43% because low rates may be on, expo might be in use, or another mixer could be affecting that channel.

I do not believe there is any way to tell Aux2 to use the dual rates, expos, trim settings, or mixing influences from external mixers. Verify that you can do this, or assume it will track with the stick position, and not the Rudders desired position based on the effects of dual rates, mixers, expo, etc.

Also, I don't think the trim lever would affect the Aux 2 neutral setting, and only move the rudders trim position. However, depending on where they position the trim mixing, it might trickle down to Aux 2. Just don't know for sure.

Make sure you verify all this before going this route. I think you will find that I am right. But, I could be wrong, and there may be a way to have it track the rudders output and not the stick output. Please let me know if anyone verifies this one way or the other for sure. I'd like to keep my facts straight.
Old 12-21-2002, 09:11 AM
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Default Futaba 9ZAP question? (new pics after first flight added)

quite right ' sfaust'. i don't use dual rates on rudder, so it wasn't an issue for me. if it were too twitchy, i'd just drop the ATV on both chnl 4 and AUX8 . mixing would likely be the only way to achieve things an keep the dual rate or expo facility. i'm just lazy at programming mixes. well noted again sfaust.
Old 12-21-2002, 02:49 PM
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Default Futaba 9ZAP question? (new pics after first flight added)

Originally posted by locoworks
quite right ' sfaust'. i don't use dual rates on rudder, so it wasn't an issue for me. if it were too twitchy, i'd just drop the ATV on both chnl 4 and AUX8 . mixing would likely be the only way to achieve things an keep the dual rate or expo facility. i'm just lazy at programming mixes. well noted again sfaust.
Thanks...

What about the trim. When you adjust the trim on the rudder, does the Aux 2 channel track the trim changes, or just the rudder? I really don't know where they insert the trim changes into the software, whether its considered a stick input, or more of a mix input.
Old 12-26-2002, 12:52 AM
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Default 9zap question!!!

Well, flew the plane for the first time today!!! I only have one word..... WOW..... it was amazing. Thanks for all ya'lls help on the 9z question. Here are a couple of pics
Thanks,
Craig Rideout
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Old 12-26-2002, 12:52 AM
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Default pic2

pic2
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Old 12-26-2002, 01:07 AM
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Default Futaba 9ZAP question? (new pics after first flight added)

I'm jealous. You got to fly today, and I got to dig out from 6" of snow just to get in the driveway

Don't tell us these things !!

Glad it went well, and you really like the plane. Guess its definitely a good holiday for you! Enjoy.
Old 12-26-2002, 03:01 AM
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carrid02
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Default thanks!

Thanks alot..... I enjoyed it thoroughly. Hey, I LOVED your carden G-300 and the videos you provided on your website. Very sorry to hear (read) that you lost it. But your not hurting for planes (that carden Extra is beautiful).

Anyway, hope your weather clears up soon. Shoot me some pics of that carden. I've been thinking of building one.... what has been your experience with the plane?
Thanks,
Craig Rideout
Old 12-26-2002, 06:01 AM
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Default Re: thanks!

Originally posted by carrid02
Thanks alot..... I enjoyed it thoroughly. Hey, I LOVED your carden G-300 and the videos you provided on your website. Very sorry to hear (read) that you lost it. But your not hurting for planes (that carden Extra is beautiful).

Anyway, hope your weather clears up soon. Shoot me some pics of that carden. I've been thinking of building one.... what has been your experience with the plane?
Thanks,
Craig Rideout
Loosing the Giles hurt, but hey, what can you do. I dumb thumbed it trying to do new maneuvers, too low, and at dusk on an overcast night. Everybody else knew better but me But, it got me the two 40% Extras in exchange, so all was not lost.

As for the 40% Carden Extra, I love it! It presents beautifully, and is very stable in the air. It wasn't the hot rod the Giles was, but its close enough. Its a better IMAC machine than the Giles, while the Giles was truly a hot rod in all areas. It had rocket like vertical, was short coupled and did tumbling maneuvers like no ones business. The elevators the Giles could do were very stable with no wing rock, and an almost vertical descent. I will build another Giles, maybe next winter. This winter is the Sr. Telemaster for night flying, the turbine Bobcat Xl, and finishing the 1/4 scale cub with floats.

I can provide you with photos, etc, just shoot me a e-mail at slfaust at charter dot net, and I'll send you a zip file.

And don't talk about your flying until we thaw out here, ok

Regards,

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