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60s gear

Old 09-25-2007, 11:47 PM
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Don41
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Default 60s gear

Anyone here old enough to remember radio control that wasn't proportional? I'm talking about those huge receivers with reeds.
Old 09-26-2007, 12:18 AM
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Redback
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Default RE: 60s gear

How about the Galloping Ghost system, which as I understand was an early attempt to get proportional control.

I recall when I was a kid a guy at the local flying club (in the UK) had one of these. One feature (if I remember right) was that it had a crank on the tail that kept the rudder and elevator permanently moving. Control was exercised by biasing the time the crank spent in the required position (I think!)

Terry
Old 09-26-2007, 10:39 AM
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Don41
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Default RE: 60s gear

Memories fade but that does ring a bell.

The one I'm remembering had servos that moved each time you sent a signal then immediately returned to center once you released the control. It was possible to crudely simulate proportional by rapidly moving the thumb.

Aaaahhh yes. The good old day (;-)
Old 09-26-2007, 10:58 AM
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youngguy
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Default RE: 60s gear

I remember it very well. Remember the single channel superhet reciever as state of the art, with quick blip throttle? This was before the reed sets. I remember being able to tune in the local radio station while tunning in the reciever. Hours of work for one flight which usually resulted in a misshap which again required hours of work for the next flight.
The reed sets were preceeded by multi channel relay sets which were very large. The reed sets were an improvement. Never any good at flying them. To much like playing a piano in order to do it well.
Thank god for proportional, even though it was very expensive in Canada. Never did any consistent flying untill I obtained one of Krafts early proportional radios with orbit servos.
Old 09-26-2007, 11:52 AM
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bruce88123
 
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Default RE: 60s gear

I read about them in the magazines while I was growing up. Couldn't afford them though so I stuck with almost flying control line. That means I crashed a lot.[:@]
Old 09-26-2007, 12:49 PM
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fizzwater2
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Default RE: 60s gear

I flew an Ace pulse rudder only radio a few times back in the mid 70's. It was like someone described - the tail flapped constantly, you varied the amount of time it flapped one direction or the other with the transmitter - and it was proportional.

I still have the TX, don't remember what happened to the receiver and actuator, darnint. I think the little Ace "whizard" they were in was scrapped in a recent move to a new house, without thinking about the radio parts...

Old 09-26-2007, 02:14 PM
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dirtybird
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Default RE: 60s gear

I flew reeds and GG several years. In 1959 I designed and flew a four channel proportional system that was basically
an expansion of the GG system except I also used analog closed loop servos that were initially designed for the old space control system that later became the Orbit analog.
Mine was one of the very first four channel systems. I scrapped it when the digital systems came out. They were about 1 lb lighter than mine.
Old 09-26-2007, 02:38 PM
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Default RE: 60s gear

I cut my teeth on single-channel escapements

Then flew "Full House" Reeds for a few years before finally graduating to proportional. I still have a few of those old Kraft systems from the 70's
Old 09-26-2007, 03:27 PM
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Don41
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Default RE: 60s gear

Chuckle

I'm gratified to hear that I'm not the only pack rat in the room (:-)
Old 09-26-2007, 04:19 PM
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onewasp
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Default RE: 60s gear

I flew them all.

Galloping Ghost really is "Simple Simul" designed and schematics published by John Worth. The name 'Galloping Ghost' caught on later as it was/is much more colorful.

We built the units from these schematics and within the limits inherent with the system they flew very well for their era. Mighty Midgets (small DC electric motors) were used to operate both elevator and rudder. And our Tx's were ground based with an antenna of some nine feet in length. These were the three piece antennas used by Walkie Talkies of WWII. The Tx antenna thereof.
Called "War Surplus" for you younger folks.

Routinely single channel used escapements --- much later servos. The Rx's were Super Regenerative----Super Heterodyne came later even though both Super Regen and Super Het circuits were designed in the late twenties by the same Army Signal Corps Engineer whose name was Edwin Armstrong. Look up and read: http://antiqueradios.com/superhet/

Now, tell me why his name is not a 'household" name in R/C and elsewhere?

Simple Simul had no motor control available and to get one TTPW was later created. I have forgotten the designer's name. TTPW stood for two tone pulse width. (also twin tone pulse width)
However the nickname said it all TTPW = Too tough to piddle with.
TTPW did work but you really had to be way above average on the "piddle scale" to get there.

Reeds (also called Multi) was the 'full house' set up. I flew Reeds in a Taurus (many Taurus(es) for many years) in Pattern. The servos (five for a Taurus and its competitors) were 'keyed' to gain partial movements as they would drive to the end of travel if the switch were held in an 'on' position.
Relay Rx's came first, with vacuum tubes;then solid state but still with relays; then relay-less with the servo amplifier located in the servo instead on the second deck of the Rx. Bonner's 'Transmite' was the servo of choice.
You haven't "lived" until you've adjusted relays (one for each channel) = NO patience, NO fly!!!!!
Then you had to adjust and clean the reed bank/Tx relationship. This was required about every month. You might get by with a longer period but you certainly weren't going to be on top of the heap if you did.
Also don't forget that different climates/locations (contests) generally meant 'retune'----very simply it made a difference----sometimes between crash and no crash and definitely between on the money or simply close.

You have no idea how far things have progressed.

Ten channel was the standard full house set up. With reeds one channel drove one direction (say up) while another channel was used to get down. Unlike the "channels" of Proportional. Ten channels gave five functions -----not ten as in Propo.

Most of today's fliers seem to think reeds produced a jerky un-scale like flight performance------In the hands of an accomplished reed flier they were just as smooth as Propo------ But you couldn't do any of the cross control maneuvers as only two channels could be driven at one time and these were across the Tx not "any" two.
Ail/Rdr. were on the right side while throttle elevator and elevator trim were on the left side. This is what I am describing as "across the Tx".
If the Pilot were inexperienced (or under gifted) the movements were jerky to say the least.
Ditto today with Propo.
However the success rate of flying reeds probably came out to about one Pilot for every 15 or 20 individuals who tried. Far, far different than today.

The ability to activate two controls at one time was referred to as "dual simul".
There were also 12 channel set ups though decidedly lesser in number. Some of these sets had "triple simul" but it really wasn't useful as you had run out of thumbs. Reeds were flown 'thumbs only".

I had a friend now dead, { (yeah deceased is the politically correct term) but my generation was NOT Politically Correct----as a matter of fact we looked down on people who didn't call a Spade a Spade. Still do as a matter of fact!}
at any rate, my friend and flying buddy had a twelve channel with the additional two channels driving the retract gear.
THAT'S RIGHT retracts in 1965-----fabricated at home. At the time it was a major feat. They worked! Reliably too. AND at scale speed!

But then at that time we built our own of most everything you could think of, at home'----Tx/Rx/and most but not all servos, and engines excepted '. If you were around then and saw the workmanship involved you would describe them as 'custom built' as the workmanship was jewel like.
I would put it up against virtually any of the commercially available items available today-----it was that good. If it were YOUR creation, then you wanted it to not only function properly but to exhibit real artistic qualities. A different time and a different set of values.

I still fly regularly but I'm on Spektrum 2.4GHz------switched from a 10X. BUT, I still fly my own stuff. I've tried an ARF or two-----simply not the same level of satisfaction-----as I said, different values.
From a Radio standpoint I think I've had them all ------even flew on HAM Freq's for thirty odd. Six meters is about like high button shoes compared to SS and my Spektrum which has been absolutely flawless since last December.
I'm looking forward to the next generation too.

Shoot, Ive become so tolerant that I've got Piedmont's Focus Sport (its an ARF----but a Pattern based ARF designed by Dave Guerin) under assembly. If that name doesn't ring a bell then you ain't no Pattern Flier.
BTW NOTE I said under assembly not "building". I'm not that tolerant.

With luck I'll be able to wring it out before the weather changes

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