Eplane65

My Feedback: (16)

I have a 6100e in a Park Zone T-28 and fly it in the same envelope as any of my other models. Distance away from me I estimate a maximum of 250 yards (750 ft). I've never had a problem.

gregtal

I had to copy my story from the battery forum, since it involves the failure of a receiver (AR5000 in this case) at less that 1000 ft away: spektrum says it was battery - may be it was, maybe not, but it is worth considering in these instances as well. Perhaps there is more to this than we think...

Open question for all to chime in on. I lost a plane this weekend. I was flying a Hobbico60 nitro on a Spektrum Dx7 (mine) and a JRS400 (my trainer's) buddy box. I was on the buddy box (or course). At one point, my trainer took over the plane to demonstrate a maneuver he wanted me to perform and promptly lost all contact with the plane. Of course, we had to retrieve the plane using a bucket. I called Spektrum to let them know what had happened and the tech there told me that the 4.8v battery supplied with the Dx7 and 4 included digital servos (all of which were in the plane) might not have had enough current to deal with the servo load. He said depending on the current load the voltage could have dropped below 3.5 volts, at which point the receiver would have stopped working. The battery did show 5 volts post crash, but he said that didn't matter. He advised me to go up to a 6 volt battery. Based on the preceding discussions in this thread, I'm wondering now if that would even matter. I'm not knocking spreadspectrum technology - I work for a company that uses it extensively and so I know it is great. But I'm building a new 60 and certainly don't want to repeat the disaster (even though it was fascinating).

Also - what can any of you tell me about using LiPo battery packs for receiver/servo power? Any difference in performance time, current strength, etc.?

Thanks, all!

"Gravity is a harsh mistress" - The Tick

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Heli_Flight

If Other spectrum radios are backwards compatible with the AR6000 2.4 Ghz RX, I would definitly recommend this rx as an alternative option.
The Spectrum radio I'm using to fly my Trex 450SA is the DX6 (not the DX6i). And with the AR6000 I'm able to fly the helicopter around the park to it's boarders without fear of going out of range as it's range far exceeds my visually orientation. On this forum it states the AR6000 range is 2000ft. I wouldn't doubt this as the performance is great. So great I'm now thinking of adding an FPV system to the heli.

If the AR6000 can go about 2000ft, Does anyone know what the range would be of a Full Range Airtronics 2.4 Ghz system? I'm using the Airtronics system on another 450 Heli and I'm debating which of the two radios I should keep as they both are great. The Airtonics does have the increase channels and pitch and throttle curve settings that is great to smooth the flight to a more refined spec.


Heli_Flight



ps.
One upgrade I most certantly recommend: I have just added lipo batties to my radio systems purchased from ebay at $19.98. The lipo in my Tx systems have added days of use to my tx charge.

Heli_Flight

I have not yet upgraded my Avistar 40 rx batteries to lipo. I have seen some options on many of the popular online sites.

From what I have seen:
The lipos with the 2s packs have 7.4 volts.
These lipos are smaller than the nimhs batteries and weigh less.
Your time will relate to your amount of mah.

The smallest lipo I have is a 3s 1500mah Lipo and this is the same size as my 4.8v NIMH.
So the 2s pack should be easy to fit in your plane with a greater mah allowing you to have longer or more total flight time.

Once you upgrade to a lipo pack, you can use a regulator to manage and step-dwon the voltage to the servos.
Check this link out for more information: http://www.helidirect.com/western-ro...or-p-11216.hdx


Heli_Flight

BuschBarber

My Feedback: (2)

I use the MPI Voltage Regulators from MaXX Products. Last year, they were selling for $19. I bought them from Troy Built Models, but you can get them from a number of places including directly from Maxx. I use TrueRC 3cell LiPos in my XP9303 Tx's

elmog

This statement by Eplane65 mirrors my experience. I fly thermal and slope mostly and have had a great experience with the 6100E. Mine is mounted in a 48" LEG P-51 Mustang. I fly the Mustang in very high pumps where orientation becomes difficult and never hadan issue. Before the Mustang I had the same 6100E mounted in a combat wingand even with many hard crashes, no problems whatsoever. I also fly the AR7000 and AR6200 (with satellite receivers) in other gliders and find no issue with these either. I think that if you study the 2.4 technology (it is quite a bit different than 72mhz) and use it within it's parameters, you will learn to prefer it even over the FM systems. It's very nice never having to worry about being shot down due to someone else's actions. BTW, if you read the AMA's Model Aviation magazine you will see that many of the top pilots in RC flying have gone over to 2.4, including Champion Qui Que Somenzini. Jim

PipeMajor

My Feedback: (1)

My son flies a Mini Ultra Stick with the AR6100 and hasn't had an issue - even when it gets uncomfortably (to me) far out.

The picture with the 6100 in the A-4... I see the antennae oriented horizontally. That would be ideal if the model were directly above or below you. If it was out a ways but only a few degrees above the horizon I'd smell a problem as the RX antennae are pointing at and away from you.

Also be sure to orient your TX antenna so it's NOT pointed at the model. Bend it vertically or horizontally so the full length of the top portion radiates out TO the model.

I've yet to have a glitch of any kind with either JR or Spektrum 2.4Ghz gear. It DOES behave a bit differently than 72Mhz equipment. Not any worse, mostly better but different.

Scuba_Diver

Disaster struck again for me. I have now lost 2 planes: 47" Extra 330 and 42" FW190. I run .15 & .25 electrics with 3S and 4S packs. Both balsa and doing some pretty basic stuff. The FW190 was in a loop and the Extra was going in a ballistic clime then stall. Each time, I was 1/2 way through the battery life, or typical flight time. I use metal gear servos too. After yesterday's crash, I believe it is the voltage issue and will be adding a separate BEC/Power supply to ANY RX unit. After the loss of hundreds of dollars in just 2 planes (not to mention my time), it's well worth spending a little extra $ to assure that these sensitive RX units don't fail. I like the cost of the 6100-6200 but I will likely go with the 7000's with diversity just to make sure they stay in the air.

I agree with the "Park Flyer" classification too. I think using these park RX's are great and a cost effective alternative to larger ones. However, adding altitude, and a big club field could allow the plane to get just beyond a safe range where the loss of binding "Could" happen. In my book it's not worth the risk of failures causing a crash or possibly injury.

Finally, range testing is great, but you have to do the range test while you are doing a fair amount of servo actuations too. This should allow you to see what power drop you might experience. I will also be putting a meter and testing the loads when using different manufactures servos. I can't believe that they are all the same and economic on power consumption. I have all different types and sizes and will be checking this in great detail now.

Good luck everyone...

Brian3006

I have had similar problems with the AR6100e and the AR500 , both receivers lock me out at different ranges . The AR6100e loses lock at around 90 ft where the AR500 loses it at 300 ft . Both receivers were used in a coreflute delta wing and the receiver mounted on the outside. I also contacted Horizon and got exactly the same response as Khatsalano , hmm I wonder if this is a standard response ?
Im also using a AR7000 receiver in one of my larger electric models and have had no problems so far . Needless to say im nervous about instaling Spektrum reveivers im my larger IC planes .

N429EM

Install a 6.0v Rx battery, and make certain your Rx is installed in a good position.

You'll be fine.

EJ

pilotpete2

That's the popular wisdom, but no sure thing.
We've had a number of crashes at our field with AR500 receivers, I've been lucky so far with my one AR500.
In one case the brand new Pulse 60 had a new 1650mAh 5 cell pack from a highly regarded source, after the crash the pack was holding over 6V with a 2A load, so not a factor. lockout was less than 300' . The only goof on the pilots part was that it was determined after the crash the throttle F/S was set to WOT, so no surprise it augured in at WOT
The coaxial antenna was well separated from the whisker and at 90dg.
Now back to the AR6100, I've been burned[:@], messed up a nice Spad XIII at less than 200' range almost directly in front of me (no, I don't point the TX antenna at the plane
). No brownout, the LED was on solid after the crash (V 1.6) and all controls were functioning after retrieving the plane. The plane was cruising in levels flight at around 3/4 throttle and just nosed down, at that point I had no response from the elevator and the plane continued into the ground at between a 45 to 60dg. angle. As far as the other control surfaces, I don't know, since the plane was tracking straight there was no need to input any other controls, except the throttle just before impact. I also suspect that the motor was at idle on the way down, as the plane did not seem to accelerate in the dive. Who knows[&o]
Pete

freeair

guys, if you want to add alot more range to your 500 / 6000 /6001 receivers, double the length of the antenna wires. for a test that worked out perfect was we had an old spectrum 6001 park flyer receiver that we removed and re soldered new double length antennas on then did a range test on ground level and gained an extra 700 feet.

jwims01

QUESTION: Both of my AR 61100e ant. have ripped off . Does anyone know if it ould it work for me to just solder a long antennae like that one for carbon fuse?

freeair

not sure if you can go that long with these antenna wires but you can go double lenghts and gain alot more range.

dirtybird

My Feedback: (5)

Not likely to work. You had better send it back to have the correct antenna installed.
Doubling the antenna may have worked for jwims01 but theoretically it should not help. The antenna is 1/4 wave dipole. Doubling its length makes it a 1/2 wave dipole and creates a severe mismatch with the receiver. It would be better to triple its length.

Brian3006

Arhhhhhhh "CRUNCH" . Yep you guessed it I lost a plane today due to signal loss from an ar500 receiver. I have had Signal loss with this receiver before but after changing the position of the receiver and carrying out range tests all seemed fine . I was flying my little austars Beaver when at the flight line I was talking to another pilot about signal loss with this receiver and proceded to fly my plane up to around 300 ft when I was locked out , the receiver went into failsafe and came in fast and shallow , broke the wing and engine cowl and fire wall . After inspecting the plane there seemed to be nothing wrong with the electrics ,no brown out blinking and all flying surfaces were moving ? ....
I think im going to sell my 2.4 ghz receivers and jr module and buy a synthesized module for my JRPCM9x...

dirtybird

My Feedback: (5)

What kind of batteries were you using?
2.4 GHZ receivers are microprocessor based and will not tolerate low voltage even for an instant. The voltage may seem to be OK but when you get in the air the increased load on the flight surface can cause the voltage to get below the critical point. The manufacturer may claim just a few milliseconds to reboot, but then the system must relock. The Spectrum system must find two open channels before it can relock.
If you are using 4.8V batteries or ones that have high internal resistance you may have trouble that you cannot repeat with the system on the ground. Voltage regulators can exacerbate the problem.
Try A123 batteries and heavy duty battery leads with no regulators.

Brian3006

I was using the BEC on a small electric drawing low amps with 3 micro servos , there was no brown out indicated by the led on the receiver . I had already ran tests specified by Horizon and that confermed it was infact signal loss and not brown out.
I belive after reading many posts on other sites that the AR500 receivers have an inherant range problem and even the factory installed receicer in the E-flite Aprentice rtf combo's are going down with the same symptoms. This poses the question " is the AR500 receiver being sold as faulty" all evidence sugests that horizon know of this bassed on the reply I got from them when I sent them an E-mail .

dirtybird

My Feedback: (5)

A BEC is a regulator. Who knows what the voltage/current specs are with those things. A micro servo can draw a high current if it has a high load. Stall one and see for yourself.

Brian3006

"Blah Blah Blah" , Do you own shares in Spektrum or something ? . As I said before there was no brown out indicated by the LED's .
Even Horizon said its signal loss.

cap10b

Heli,
I fly ATX 2.4 and the stated range number I received from Greenshields at Global is :

RDS8000 with the 92824 8 ch reciever is 1.5 miles range (he said they tested this on nearby dry lake bed)
SD-10G with the 92104 10 ch receiver is 2.0 miles range
the new Stylus 2.4 conversion uses the 92824 receiver and is 1.5 miles range.

He said they needed this much range for 6 meter glider and the FAI guys. They delayed the release of the Stylus 2.4 conversion
just for this reason, not because they didnt have enough range but because they wanted more range.

The new mini or park flyer receivers are being shipped to the field from Hobby People.
I will probably get a couple for my RDS8K.


Good Luck

JDS

dirtybird

My Feedback: (5)

I do not own Spectrum or any of its stock.
I was just trying to help. If you prefer to just blame Spectrum I will stop trying.

firehopper

I'm asking for it running a ar6100 in a Funzone Cessna 182 select, Ireally should get a ar6200 or a ar500 for it. and Ireally should get another one or a ar7000 for the new electric cub Ihave mostly done, (was electric, someone converted to gas, I'm going back to electric.) just needs micro servos for the ailerons.

jaka

Hi!
It would be interesting to see your set up's who have had failures with the Spektrum radio.
I have used the Spektrum DX-7, DX-6i and Dx-7SE with full lenght receivers (AR 7000,9100 and 6200) for 3 years now without any problem and get a little curious of how your radio installations look like and what kind of batteries you use.

It is my experience that 4,8V work just fine in the Spektrum radio as long as you use the right batteries that can put out enough amps and that you in every plane use a voltwatch meter...and most important mount the receiver and batteries in lots of soft foam.
GP make as series of high performance NiMH cells (Red series) at 850mAh that I use in my Q-500 pylon racers and in my Marutaka DC-3 without any problems.

finecutpost

I lost a PA mini Katana today fitted with an AR500. (I spun in from about 75 feet - plenty of time to recover) after the crash the bind light was still glowing solid red but I had no control at all. however the contrl surfaces were still locked in the spin position I's set prior to the crash. pressing on them they would return to the same settings. the RX has a 8amp independant switch mode BEC which was still fully functioning. On resetting power to the RX and all controls worked perfectly.

To repeat after the crash the bind light was still solid and the servoes were locked in the postion I'd set them prior to the crash.

Has any one else had this problem?

The TX works perfectly with my AR7000 in a 26cc gas Superstar and is rock solid.