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Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

Old 01-07-2008, 10:18 PM
  #51  
avsjr
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!


ORIGINAL: dick Hanson

I am gonna find out where this stuff you guys are smokin - comes from - seems like it really works -

Dick,

One of the few posts in this thread I can agree with - some of the comments are unbelievable...

Andy S.
Old 01-07-2008, 10:24 PM
  #52  
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

I will be in Ontario all this weekend. Hopefully I can catch them at the Hobbico/Great Planes booth. I would love to witness this with my own eyes.
Old 01-07-2008, 11:43 PM
  #53  
moodier
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

HI Krista;Tried to PM you! but got answer that you don't accept PMs so will have to answer here!I will pass on your request that they not turn the units over to the Futaba people at the Ca AMA rally!Would you please contact Mr.Neufeld to discuss this issue?As you can see from his posts he is quite knowledgable about these units and electronics!Our only desire is to see that Futaba finds and corrects this problem!!How many other units are out there that have the same codes?Thanks!Sorry couldn't use the PM!
Old 01-08-2008, 12:56 AM
  #54  
RonR214
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

Moodier, Is there a radio repair facility anywhere in your area that works on multiple brands? Would be nice to have 3rd part confirmation before the units are shippped back to Futuba.

Also, my assumption all along has been that the GUID number is similar to the MAC address on industerial/consumer equipment (built in pre-assigned ID number unique to each piece that goes on a network). I would hope that a shop that services any brand would be able to read that GUID even though this is fairly new equipment. Worth a try anyway. Could be educational for the shop as well.
Old 01-08-2008, 08:32 AM
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

HI THERE. I WAS AT THE FIELD THAT DAY, AND SAW IT ALL. IT DID HAPPEN. SUMMERWIND HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD. THE PLANE WAS A NEW AEROWORKS 260. IT WAS TOTALED. HE WOULD LIKE IT REPLACED. WE ALL FEEL THAT IF THE RADIOS WERE SENT IN THE PROBLEM WOULD DISSAPEAR. WHEN THE 6EX WAS TURNED ON, THE LEFT ELEV ON THE 260 WENT TO FULL UP AND THE LEFT AIL WENT INOP, AND THE THROTTLE WENT LOW. NO CONTROL. THESE TWO TRANSMITTERS DO SEEM TO HAVE THE SAME CODE IN THEM. HOW MANY MORE HAVE SOUL MATES SOME WHERE? IT IS STRANGE HOW THESE TWO TRANSMITTERS ENDED UP IN YUMA AZ. AT THE SAME TIME, SAME PLACE AND SAME DAY. I HOPE MINES MATE IS IN NEW ENGLAND. SAY WHAT YOU WANT, IT DID HAPPEN.
Old 01-08-2008, 08:35 AM
  #56  
skorp_jon
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

Please make some video how two transmitters operate with one receiver. If i were u i will make some video proof before send transmitters to futaba service center.

I really would like to futaba fix that. I wanted to buy 12FG 2.4 but i will wait now until this problem is fixed.
Old 01-08-2008, 01:57 PM
  #57  
aydin3
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

I saw this in another forum on RCUniverse...might hlp to explain what happened....seems like there is a problem with holding the unique ID's for some reason....

quote:

ORIGINAL: martinh

Hi Chaps

I left my 6EX Tx on and accidentally discharged it completely, Trickle charged it for two days and went flying.

No response from either of the two models I took, just flashing green on R606FS

Ok, I succesfully relinked both rx and flew

Now I got home and try my other model and I had to relink that as well !

So I must have lost my original Tx ID

so much for the "individually assigned unigue ID code"

What ID do I have now ????

Martin


I am now Flying FF9 with R607FS receivers everything is fine except that you can't tilt the Arial up 45% only down 45% or 90%

I picked up a new FS607 for a model originally on my 6EX Tx so I thought I would use this rx with the 6EX to save time setting up again on FF9/TM7 guess what I did not have to bind the new rx to the 6EX so my 6EX must be on the default GUID probably the factory test ID


I have tried 50 or so times to get through to Futaba Support in the UK now (Rpmax Enfield)

As far as I am concerned now the whole lot will probabley be referred to trading standards in the UK and the as though I have no flight problems the 6EX is definitely not on it's unique GUI and it also might be a matter for OFCOMM the RF regulator


Martin



Martin
Old 01-08-2008, 02:04 PM
  #58  
pda4you
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!


ORIGINAL: aydin3

I saw this in another forum on RCUniverse...might hlp to explain what happened....seems like there is a problem with holding the unique ID's for some reason....

quote:

ORIGINAL: martinh

Hi Chaps

I left my 6EX Tx on and accidentally discharged it completely, Trickle charged it for two days and went flying.

No response from either of the two models I took, just flashing green on R606FS

Ok, I succesfully relinked both rx and flew

Now I got home and try my other model and I had to relink that as well !

So I must have lost my original Tx ID

so much for the "individually assigned unigue ID code"

What ID do I have now ????

Martin


I am now Flying FF9 with R607FS receivers everything is fine except that you can't tilt the Arial up 45% only down 45% or 90%

I picked up a new FS607 for a model originally on my 6EX Tx so I thought I would use this rx with the 6EX to save time setting up again on FF9/TM7 guess what I did not have to bind the new rx to the 6EX so my 6EX must be on the default GUID probably the factory test ID

My guess in this situation is not the GUID code in the TX was lost or reset - I am guessing that is hard coded in ROM. But it sounds as if the TX did loose all the RX codes as a result of the discharge. Although if the programing on the models was not lost - why the link codes for the unique RX's?

Strange indeed.

Mike
Old 01-08-2008, 03:50 PM
  #59  
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!


ORIGINAL: moodier

HI Krista;Tried to PM you! but got answer that you don't accept PMs so will have to answer here!I will pass on your request that they not turn the units over to the Futaba people at the Ca AMA rally!Would you please contact Mr.Neufeld to discuss this issue?As you can see from his posts he is quite knowledgable about these units and electronics!Our only desire is to see that Futaba finds and corrects this problem!!How many other units are out there that have the same codes?Thanks!Sorry couldn't use the PM!
this would be a BIG mistake..........take them to the show first, let others see that you are telling the truth.
send them into service, and the evidence will end up at Area 51, and that will be the end of it, and your credibility.
Old 01-08-2008, 04:13 PM
  #60  
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

summerwind,

I have already spoken to the owner of this radio, he is sending this into me. And I will have our techs check these, and we will resolve this with our customers.

But it will not be a " BIG MISTAKE " to send these into me. We have the customer's say so that this happened, taking the time to run these radios around to different events simply for others to witness any issue will only delay getting them in here where they belong.



Krysta
Product Development & Support Specialist
Futaba Service Center USA
Old 01-08-2008, 04:20 PM
  #61  
summerwind
 
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

Krysta,

i am a diehard Futaba user, and will always be a supporter of Futaba.
i think this entire thread is useless as no real evidence has ever been presented other than the OP post, and 2 followups by users that have a mere 4-6 total posts between them and thus their sign up date just being recent..................we all would like to know the truth of the matter.
i have invested around 4K this year in 2 6EXA 2.4 systems and receievers, servos and such.......am currently waiting for my 12FG (mode I) system.
all we can ask for is honesty from Futaba, and i hope there is a followup from you on these 2 radios.
lota folks watchin this one........................
Old 01-08-2008, 04:34 PM
  #62  
altavillan
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

How or why would Futaba hide evidence. If this is not an isolated freak happening they need to fix it right now and that sounds like what Futaba is trying to do. Get them in and let them see if they have made some mistakes. The same would hold true for anyone who suspects a problem with their radios. Inform Futaba about your problem, get the defective units to them, and then let us all know here so we are all aware what might be a problem for us all. Anything related to airplanes has to be looked at with safety first.

I sure can't see how a sideshow at the convention is going to fix any problems.
Old 01-08-2008, 05:37 PM
  #63  
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

(I posted this in support forum thread, but it was deleted)
The easiest way to end all this speculation would be for the involved parties to create a video showing the tests that the
pilot of the crashed plane said were performed after the crash.
Setup: Bind Rx1 to Tx1. Bind Rx2 to Tx2
Turn both Rx's on.
1. Turn only Tx1 on, and demonstrate that it controls both Rx's at once
2. Turn Tx1 off, turn Tx2 on, demonstrate that it controls both Rx at once
3. Turn Tx1 and Tx2 both on, and show that both Rx's become unresponsive or glitchy.

That's it. Do that before the radios go to Futaba. Whether you trust Futaba or not,
they might fix the problem accidentally with a reset to factory specs, or firmware update
and then not take the problem seriously because they can't reproduce it. As an engineer myself, I
understand the "That's impossible" response when someone claims to have broken a system
that I designed to be unbreakable, but I can be motivated to search for
the impossible, if there's clear, unambiguous proof that the problem could be
reproduced by the user, even if I can not do so directly. In this case a video clip would
provide that proof to the satisfaction of absolutely everyone.

ian
Old 01-08-2008, 06:32 PM
  #64  
summerwind
 
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!


ORIGINAL: altavillan

How or why would Futaba hide evidence. If this is not an isolated freak happening they need to fix it right now and that sounds like what Futaba is trying to do. Get them in and let them see if they have made some mistakes. The same would hold true for anyone who suspects a problem with their radios. Inform Futaba about your problem, get the defective units to them, and then let us all know here so we are all aware what might be a problem for us all. Anything related to airplanes has to be looked at with safety first.

I sure can't see how a sideshow at the convention is going to fix any problems.
boy, i wanna sell anything i have to you............let's start off with a piece of property i own and will make you one heck of a deal............send me the money now, and i promise to tell you where the land is.............DOH!
Old 01-08-2008, 09:37 PM
  #65  
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

My TM-14 module (which I just received the other day and have not used yet) has a sticker on it with an ID number. Is there a way (via a screen/menu in the transmitter) that the ID can be displayed/determined ..... to compare the ID number on the sticker to the ID number that is displayed ..... to see if they match ? Bob
Old 01-08-2008, 10:18 PM
  #66  
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

Yes.
Go to the information screen on your TX. The code or SN there matches the sticker on my radio.
Dom
Old 01-09-2008, 07:01 AM
  #67  
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

Well can't they then easily determine the 'code/ID' that each transmitter/module was actually transmitting/assigned ? ? Bob



Old 01-09-2008, 09:55 AM
  #68  
BillS
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!


ORIGINAL: MaJ. Woody

Yes.
Go to the information screen on your TX. The code or SN there matches the sticker on my radio.
Dom
Thanks. Your comments represent the best trouble shooting suggestion yet that could easily be accomplished by the user. A quick and easy check might reveal the problem.

It is likely that the serial number would be used to generate the seed number for the hop sequence. And the hop sequence would probably need to be identical along with the checksum for a foreign transmitter to interfere with another receiver.

Bill
Old 01-09-2008, 11:17 AM
  #69  
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

I think video will be revealing, either way.

Also, I have been wondering why Futaba isn't shipping the TM-8 8-Channel 2.4GHz FASST Modules, when Krysta has mentioned in another thread that they are using one. What's the holdup? I have too much money invested in the 7-channel FASST receivers to take a chance on faulty electronics with the 8-channel FASST module, which I have had backordered for three months now.
Old 01-09-2008, 11:32 AM
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

The serial number on my screen matches the serial number on my transmitter, NOT my module. They would have to have the module read that number from the TX for that to be the ID. I doubt that that is the case.

As for some of the comments on this thread. I think it is paranoid to think that Futaba would examine these radios, find that they have a problem caused by Futaba, that could affect other units, and try to hide it til' the next incident. These large corporations aren't the big bad crooks some think. The most important thing to a corp. is maintaining BRAND. Futaba has spent many years building their brand and they are not going to chance killing through foolish dishonesty. JMHO
Old 01-09-2008, 01:55 PM
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!


ORIGINAL: Flying Geezer

As for some of the comments on this thread. I think it is paranoid to think that Futaba would examine these radios, find that they have a problem caused by Futaba, that could affect other units, and try to hide it til' the next incident. These large corporations aren't the big bad crooks some think. The most important thing to a corp. is maintaining BRAND. Futaba has spent many years building their brand and they are not going to chance killing through foolish dishonesty. JMHO
I agree completely.

Old 01-09-2008, 02:49 PM
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

This post is one that I hoped I would not have to post.

On its own, it was a local anomaly that was restricted to 3 units, I felt that there was no reason to ring alarm bells until we had got to the bottom of the problem.

I am posting it now for safety reasons as I have just found out from this thread.
That there has been another occurrence.


Also rumours and false truths are out in the UK, so here is the truth, please act on it sensibly.


Below is a copy of an email I sent to Ripmax in the UK around 1 week ago.
Ripmax are the UK distributors for Futaba and I know they have taken immediate action. I will list actions and recommendations after the email copy.


I have to report to you a very serious problem with the Futaba FASST 6 channel system.
As you know I am a great supporter of Futaba, always have been.
I also believe that the FASST system is far better than any of the competition systems.
I have been flying the FASST for some months now and have been totally satisfied until now.
In our club there is maybe 6 sets in operation, all of which have worked perfectly on their own or with each other.
No interference issues at all.
Today I had a new member to teach to fly; he has 2 Futaba FASST 6 TXs and a trainer with 1 RX in it.
We were using the 2 TXs together on a buddy lead.
All seemed fine, I taxied the model to the take off area and was waiting for someone to land, and he was also on Futaba 6 FASST. I was standing next to him; the model was in front of me to the left, so my TX was between the model and his TX.
Suddenly the throttle opened on the trainer and it was off, I had no control, it swung around to the left and shot off into long grass (luckily), this stopped the motor.
When we returned to the bench we did a test.
On the trainer we turned off the matching TX and then the TX of the guy next to me on the flight line (we will call him man A) was switched on, and guess what? It had control of the model! We then turned on the models TX, it failed to operate or interfere with the model. We then turned off man A’s TX, the RX went to failsafe, and then 4 seconds later locked on to its own TX! We then switched on man A’s TX, it again failed to interfere with the signal. We switched off the trainers own TX and the RX went to failsafe, 4 seconds later it reconnected with man A’s TX.
The RX would connect to 2 TX’s! We then tried the second TX (belonging to the man with the trainer) the one that was used on buddy lead. Well guess what! The RX worked with this one as well! We repeated the above test with switching on the other TX’s and every time we switched off the controlling TX, 4 seconds later it would bond with one of the other TX’s
So to sum up; at this point we had a RX that would work with 3 TX’s
Next we tried other TX’s on the field (mine included) and these would NOT operate the RX, it was just the 3 (2 belonging to the trainer and man A’s TX.)
We then rebound the RX in the trainer to one of the 3 TX’s that would operate it, well, nothing changed, and all three could operate it.
Man A had 2 models, both with 6 FASST RX’ in them.
We turned on one of the original trainer TX’s and, well you have guessed it, it could control BOTH of his models.
We tried other TX’s (including mine) none of them would do the same.
So in summary at this point we now have 3 TX’s and 3 RX’ that will work any or all of the others!
To further complicate things we tried the following.
I took my TX (no problem with it and no interference on my RX from the other TX’s). We bound the RX in the trainer to my TX and ….no problem, it would only work on my TX!
We were very lucky today, someone could have been badly hurt or worse, this is a very serious issue.
We now have a ban on any 2.4 systems flying with any other, so, just like superegen.
This needs urgent attention as many sets are out there.

This news will have to be made public soon for safety reasons.

Paul Gray


Ripmax immediately responded to by asking for the return of the sets TX’s involved for checking, this has been done.

My understanding is that has tested all of the 6 channel units in stock and discovered at least 2 more with the problem.
The problem has been identified as the TX@ having the same code…namely 0000000. As if they have not been blown/programmed.
Ripmax are obviously in constant communication with Futaba and I am sure a solution/announcement is imminent.

I would make the following recommendations.

Get all 2.4 FASST systems in your club together and carry out the following test.

Switch on your TX and all other RX’s, see if any other system will respond, if not then repeat with all other TX’s one at a time. Remember, only 1 TX at a time.
What this will do will show that all the TX’s in your club are not interfering with each others rx, therefore you do not have more than ONE faulty TX present. However if a new TX or module turns up then you MUST repeat the test, because one of your TX’s may have been faulty but it would not show unless 2 or more are present. (Bit of a pain but you can at least continue with safety until Futaba give a heads up on this and resolve/replace the faulty TX’s.
We have done this in our club now and are back flying as normal.

Sorry to be the bearer of this news but for safety’s sake you should know, and with a little checking (as indicated) you can still fly non-faulty units with each other perfectly safely.

Paul
Old 01-09-2008, 03:17 PM
  #73  
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

Sad to hear indeed but at least you have had the units checked out and hopefully corrected. PERHAPS another step is needed in Futaba Quality Control prior to shipment.
Old 01-09-2008, 03:21 PM
  #74  
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

I agree, this is production process control problem, not a design issue.
Old 01-09-2008, 03:30 PM
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

It is a real shame, but looks like it was tested and handled responsibly. It will be interesting to see how this is resolved.

Some of the posters in this thread owe a big apology to the guys here in the US that had this happen, also to Bax and Krysta for some of your ridiculous rants...

Andy S.

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