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Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

Old 01-05-2008, 10:09 AM
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moodier
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Default Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

Hi;Had posted about this to the Factory site but guess not the place to ask general questions!We had a problem the other day 2 FAST txs operating different rec.one 6E and one 7c one had 607 other 617 rec either radio could operate both receivers.Result was a big gasser destroyed and assurance from Futaba this not possible!!It Is!!I watched as they checked out the planes.both txs operated either rec!!Then went to another plane bound the 7c to it and worked fine turned on the other rec and it went crazy.Both units worked fine unless the other was turned on!!HAS ANYONE ELSE HAD ANY THING LIKE THIS????Guess this is more appropriate place to ask this than on there site!Like to hear if you have!!We bought these units to avoid this sort of thing.Needless to say my friend with the gasser has put all his planes back on the PCMs he had been using!Expensive when they crash!!Good Luck!
Old 01-05-2008, 10:13 AM
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moodier
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

Sorry typo.On 5th line down of last post said turned on other rec should have been turned on other tx!Makes more sense,am a lousey typist!
Old 01-05-2008, 10:24 AM
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skorp_jon
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

Hello.

I also want to buy futaba 12fg 2.4. I asked futaba 3 weeks ago what would happened if transmitters would have same ID. They said that this could never happened. Now i see that this could happened.

I'm waiting for futaba's answer. I really don't like to be shoot down. That's why i would like to buy 2.4 system.

Best solution would be that futaba lets users to manually change ID on transmitters. For example ID can be Name+phone number or something like that.

Futaba should change both of these transmitters for new one and check out why something like same ID could happened.
Old 01-05-2008, 10:32 AM
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dragoonpvw
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

ORIGINAL: moodier

Hi;Had posted about this to the Factory site but guess not the place to ask general questions!We had a problem the other day 2 FAST txs operating different rec.one 6E and one 7c one had 607 other 617 rec either radio could operate both receivers.Result was a big gasser destroyed and assurance from Futaba this not possible!!It Is!!I watched as they checked out the planes.both txs operated either rec!!Then went to another plane bound the 7c to it and worked fine turned on the other rec and it went crazy.Both units worked fine unless the other was turned on!!HAS ANYONE ELSE HAD ANY THING LIKE THIS????Guess this is more appropriate place to ask this than on there site!Like to hear if you have!!We bought these units to avoid this sort of thing.Needless to say my friend with the gasser has put all his planes back on the PCMs he had been using!Expensive when they crash!!Good Luck!
This sounds a bit suspicious to me. You say you tested the two setups and they both controlled the other receiver. Then the plane crashed. Why? are you telling me the other guy flew a large gasser with the other guy transmitting when he knew there was a problem. I dont believe it, I just dont believe anyone could be that stupid. Give us some more details. Funny thing is, I go back and see your history, and a few posts back your big post is titled "WHY NO CRASHES" , wondering why there are no crashes reported from the fasst system. Then here you go, the first evidence. Anyway, have you sent these systems back for checkup. If there is a problem then it should be found out now and if you guys have the only one that does this then you should be getting it to futaba asp to troubleshoot. Get a grip, send them in and show us some straight vids of the transmitters cross controlling and how the interference works. by the way, Futaba support didnt ignore you , they tried to replicate the problem and asked you to send them in for checkup. Have you done that yet. The ball is in your court. If this truly can happen then you should move yourself and be part of the solution.
thanks
Paul
Old 01-05-2008, 11:03 AM
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tkilwein
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

I received mine yesterday and see what I have done so far with WIFI, cell phones and power .
So far it looks good. This is all preflight tests.
I am going to keep updating the thread below as testing goes on.
So far it looks like I will be backordering another 6014 soon.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_6855523/tm.htm
Old 01-05-2008, 11:57 AM
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DougV
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

I have both 7C 2.4 and 6EX 2.4, 8 airplanes and 2 Helis, Raptor 50 Titan and T-Rex 450Se V2, No problems.

Doug.
Old 01-05-2008, 12:09 PM
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

wow, this just happened the "other day", and now this gent has put everything he owns back on PCM................any proof?
Old 01-05-2008, 12:13 PM
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skorp_jon
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

Put some video of this behavior. I really would like to see that. At the beginning i believed you. But now i want some proof that this is really happened.
Old 01-05-2008, 03:30 PM
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BillS
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

This thread sounds suspicious but lets get more information before making a decision. New designs do sometimes have strange and unexplained problems.

It doesn't seem reasonable to make a flight with an expensive airplane and questionable equipment.

Is it easy to demonstrate and repeat the circumstances?

Does 7c refer to Futaba equipment?

Does a method exist to verify the transmitter ID?

Bill
Old 01-05-2008, 04:37 PM
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nedyob
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

Hello Moodier,
Its good that you brought this out in the open, may it be a true incident or a ficticious one. Krista replied to your post and advised what they found out with there testing of other Fasst systems, an never had a hit off another Tx unit. No you need to put your money where your mouth is and send both the units together in for a check up. It Hobby services finds the problem they rest a shured they will fix the problem under warranty.
If you choose not to send your Tx in to be checked then you are the only one responsible if someone gets shot down, and your flying club could stop you from flying at there field with out showing proof that the TX in question is fixed and given a good bill of health.
If you are doing this to try and get attention, and cause a panic, I don't think it will work. So step up and get the TX's checked out and stop trying to claim old saying " The Sky is Falling " Because after a while people will start ingnoring you and what you say.
NEDYOB
Old 01-05-2008, 05:51 PM
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

the fact that, and this is from Futaba's site,

"Other 2.4GHz systems hold firm to one or two frequencies, increasing the potential for interference. The frequency of Futaba 2.4GHz FASST shifts every 2 milliseconds, so there are no signal conflicts or interruptions – and no need for a frequency pin!"

this is stated on Futaba's site will certainly put Futaba into a liability issue with any such incidents....................i try to contain myself and never call anyone a TROLL, but in this case i see someone with a need for an audience.
but i will certainly apologize if this is in fact a true incident................my suspicions are a poor radio installation which caused the crash if there was indeed a crash..........................it's so easy to post a video or picture here on RCU, that doing so would surely validate such a claim.
and again, if i'm wrong, i certainly appreciate the evidence and finding of such a flaw..................my next purchase that i'm still waiting for is the Futaba 12FG 2.4Ghz (mode I).
Old 01-05-2008, 07:24 PM
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fritzthecat
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

Pretty rude to call somebody a liar and/or troll.

From moodier's post on the Futaba forum:
We did try several other SS transmitters and only these 2 units interacted this way!!They willbe sent to you but for now is a very scary situation at our field.Needless to say we are being very careful to check all FASST units when we fly.We tried sevral other FASST units...

So all you internet commandos need to STFU and wait for the results. From the indications the 6EX and the 7C have the same transmitter ID code. Stuff happens, even at Futaba. Would not be the first time Futaba screwed up. So let's see what Krysta finds out.

Fritz
Old 01-05-2008, 08:58 PM
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moodier
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

Hi;I have no axe to grind here but bought this unit to avoid this kind of problem!!His plane crash is the reason we found out what was happening!DO whatever you please!I am still using my FASST unit to, and like it very well,BUT i saw this situation in operation.He even went and bound the 7c to another plane completely seprate and worked fine but when the other 6 channel unit was turned on all control was lost as happened to the gasser in the air when we started ground checking the 6 channel. As I said earlier the units will all be delivered to Futaba at the Orange Co AMA meet next Friday!On there own both Txs bind and work fine only problem is they also operate the others receiver too.Hopefully there will be some simple answer to this.Incidentally the fellow whos plane crashed wrote a very polite post on the mfg.form explaining what happened and what we found afterward.It was only there for a short time,I did read it but now is gone!
Old 01-05-2008, 09:39 PM
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

These radios do need to be examined IMO. Even if they did happen to have the same ID code, which is remote, the chances of them "hopping" on the same freq at the same time with the same code is next to impossible. Odds of both happening at the same time are astronomical IMO. Something must be VERY wrong here and it needs fixing.
Old 01-05-2008, 09:40 PM
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

well if true, i will apologize right now for doubting you....................but we all will want an update.
this would mean that both Tx's are on the same code.......which Futaba says can't happen......if so, then they must be liable for damages no?
Old 01-05-2008, 10:52 PM
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moodier
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

HI;Summerwind:The only thing we can figure too is that they both have the same code!!!Yes he was flying the next day with another ship and his old PCM back in it!One encouraging thing I see is no one else saying theyhave seen this happen so hopefully it is a one in a million occurance that 2 with the same code then to be both at one field!!!!As I said both units work fine alone!!Just have to wait and see what Futaba says when they get the units!For the fellow back there who sugested he was flying knowing this problem hope no one is that dumb!Problem was found on post mortem of the plane!
Old 01-05-2008, 11:34 PM
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

I'm not saying this did not happen but if other people at your field saw this, it would be nice to hear from them as well. I flew on the Fasst system today for the first time, others were using it also, we had no problems.
Old 01-05-2008, 11:35 PM
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yakman
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!


ORIGINAL: bruce88123

These radios do need to be examined IMO. Even if they did happen to have the same ID code, which is remote, the chances of them "hopping" on the same freq at the same time with the same code is next to impossible. Odds of both happening at the same time are astronomical IMO.
My opinion also. Cant wait to see how this one pans out.
Old 01-06-2008, 07:58 AM
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

An Electrical Engineer could hack a transmitter in about an hour and put in the same GUID as another transmitter. There is probably some link between the serial number and the GUID so I doubt that these two transmitters will ever reach Futaba. Recall that this exact same story was put out about the DX7 early last year. He didn't say he was going to send them in to Futaba, he said he was going to take them to the AMA meeting to show everyone !
Old 01-06-2008, 08:27 AM
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

I like futaba as well. I'm not a fan of their forum support though... I'd definately get the transmitters and receivers checked out! Hopefully it's a 1 in a million incident. Does anyone at the field have a vid cam or some way that they can tape and post what's happening?? If they could video the link lights etc it would be very helpful and interesting!!!!!
Old 01-06-2008, 09:33 AM
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moodier
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

To four stroker they are being taken to give to the Futaba people at the AMA show in Orange Co.Friday.Sure interesting the reactions you get from people on here!Although guess if hadn't seen it myself might have been skeptical too!Oh Well!!!!
Old 01-06-2008, 11:16 AM
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!


ORIGINAL: moodier

To four stroker they are being taken to give to the Futaba people at the AMA show in Orange Co.Friday.Sure interesting the reactions you get from people on here!Although guess if hadn't seen it myself might have been skeptical too!Oh Well!!!!

You might have an issue if you are going to Orange County for the AMA show. It is in San Bernardino County at the Ontario Convention Center in Ontario, CA. It is just north of the airport and south of I-10. And have you arranged for the folks from Hobbico to take the radio?/ They usually don't do that type of thing since they have lots of stuff to transport as it is. I would not just show up with the radios unless you have made an arrangement to do so.

And the skepticism comes from the fact that this is theoretically nearly impossible. So it will be interesting to hear what the Hobbico repair folks have to say.
Old 01-06-2008, 12:27 PM
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

on another note, if Moodier sends the radios in, Futaba service is likely to program out the problem and say "no problems found" thus alleviating them from any liabilities from the crash the radios caused.....................taking the radios to the show and presenting the proof with the public to see as well is the most justified recourse one can take here.
it's what i would do, and i would also have the witness's and backup i need to get reimbursed for damages.

there is however that one little note that talks about USEAGE PRECAUTIONS;

1. Special attention must be paid before turning on the transmitter while other models are running or flying because the
2.4GHz system may affect them.
2. If there is a special regulation for using 2.4GHz radio systems at your flying site, please obey all regulations to enjoy safe
flying with your 2.4GHz system.
3. 2.4GHz is very different than the frequencies we currently use. Please keep the model in sight at all times as large
objects can block the RF signal. Please keep in mind that objects such as wire fences and wire mesh will also cause loss of
signal.
4. NEVER grip the transmitter antenna when flying as this degrades RF quality and cause loss of control.
Old 01-06-2008, 12:35 PM
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rmh
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

I am gonna find out where this stuff you guys are smokin - comes from - seems like it really works -
Old 01-06-2008, 12:41 PM
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Default RE: Major Glitch in a Futaba SS system!!

summerwind is right !!!



lets assume for a minute that this is all true.

The futaba ss system has not been out that long, therefore, i believe the odds of this happening again is much greater than 1 in a million. When these units are sent back to futaba, and they do indeed discover that both tx can operate the same rx at the same time do you think they will admit it ?? admitting it would be equivalent to a vampire stabbing himself in the heart with a wooden steak....talk about credibility !!

Futaba will fix the problem, send it back to the owner and say they could not find a thing wrong with it.

I suggest that you get a video of this phenomenon ***BEFORE*** sending it in to them for service, otherwise know one will ever believe you and you will have no proof that this problem ever occurred at all...

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